Well, there he goes- pilot flying in a National Park (US)

[Duke_Mulligan]

Bah, it happened!

A couple weeks ago my wife and I went to California, including Yosemite and King’s Canyon/Sequoia National Parks. We spent most of our time at Yosemite, but did a half day drive-through of KC/S, and when we were pulling up to one of the popular panoramic lookouts in King’s Canyon, there was a guy about my age (30’s) taking off with what I think was an Air 2S, maybe a Mini, didn’t get a great look. Of course, the warning bells were going off in my head immediately when I saw that, but I figured a gentle “Hey, not sure if you know, but…” would be sufficient. And, honestly, I was hoping to see if he had any good photos/videos from areas outside the park. But, Karen beat me to it. She actually wasn’t that bad, at first anyway, just let him know that drones aren’t allowed in the parks, and he apologized and landed quickly. But then she just wouldn’t let go of how distracting it was, and how it bothered the wildlife, on and on, and then he’s on about is it really that distracting though, you can’t even hear it after it’s a little ways off… back and forth, it was a (mild) scene. She finally relented.

I chatted with him a tiny bit, asked what he was flying, but I think he was a little too frazzled to talk much. Bummer. They both got in their cars, and he tried to apologize to her out the window again in his way out, but she couldn’t just take the apology, it got the whole cycle going all over again.

I did get thinking to myself later, I bet he had to ignore a warning from the DJI Fly app, although I’m not sure if it pops up a warning inside the parks, I’ve never tried.

I’ll admit, when we were at Yosemite, there were some spots I would’ve LOVED to get even 25-50 feet up in the air, just to get above a few of those pesky nearby treetops that invade the periphery of a nice photo. But the parks are for all, and I’m not about to disrupt someone else’s enjoyment of them.

 

[mavic3usa]

You can fly in any National Park as long as you get the proper permission. Does anyone ever ask if you got a permit? Not all "parks" are off limits, what about Red Rock Canyon? If this karen with the same gripes were in that park, wouldn't she confront as well? I would never do it because I know the feds believe it is egregious but if you check YT, you will see hundreds of drone NP videos which leads me to believe it is done quite a bit with impunity. Again, I certainly wouldn't do it myself but I wouldn't try to stop anyone else; wouldn't report him either. YMMV

No idea when it was actually flown. I have no idea if this is actually in the Park or not but it doesn't seem like it was done just from "over" the Park:

 

[Cafguy]

I fly around the canyon area of the Kern river ( not in the park) I have seen photographers taking photos with Drones in the Sequoia national Park and they had a Park ranger with them watching and chatting so I am sure they had permission.

 

[Duke_Mulligan]

You can fly in any National Park as long as you get the proper permission. Does anyone ever ask if you got a permit? Not all "parks" are off limits, what about Red Rock Canyon? If this karen with the same gripes were in that park, wouldn't she confront as well? I would never do it because I know the feds believe it is egregious but if you check YT, you will see hundreds of drone NP videos which leads me to believe it is done quite a bit with impunity. Again, I certainly wouldn't do it myself but I wouldn't try to stop anyone else; wouldn't report him either. YMMV

No idea when it was actually flown. I have no idea if this is actually in the Park or not but it doesn't seem like it was done just from "over" the Park:

Well, this guy definitely didn't have a permit, or I'm sure he would've said so. From what I gather, getting permission and/or a permit to fly in a National Park is highly unlikely (as in impossible) for a recreational or commercial pilot unless they're assisting in either a promotion activity for the park, or some kind of search and rescue, mapping, etc. NPS has specifically stated that drones are prohibited from all NPS lands without permission/permit from the specific park authority.

Red Rock Canyon is a Bureau of Land Management area, not NPS, so I'm not sure it's fair to compare those in a conversation about National Parks. Although really cool that BLM allows it!

I wouldn't forcefully stop anyone from flying in a national park, or report them, but I think anyone interested in the future of the hobby should say something to that pilot, because that behavior reinforces the impression amongst the general public that we don't care about following the rules. Not to mention, you could be saving that fellow pilot from a hefty fine as well as the confiscation of their gear if the rangers find them flying in the park.

Sorry to be contradictory - don't get me wrong, if you have any detailed information on getting permits, I'd be the first one who would love to hear it. I just don't see/hear any firsthand accounts of people doing so, especially for recreation.

 

[Duke_Mulligan]

I fly around the canyon area of the Kern river ( not in the park) I have seen photographers taking photos with Drones in the Sequoia national Park and they had a Park ranger with them watching and chatting so I am sure they had permission.

Well, again, I've not heard of anyone getting that permission for anything other than official NPS business, but if you ever come across any details on those situations, I'd love to hear!

 

[mavic3usa]

Well, this guy definitely didn't have a permit, or I'm sure he would've said so. From what I gather, getting permission and/or a permit to fly in a National Park is highly unlikely (as in impossible) for a recreational or commercial pilot unless they're assisting in either a promotion activity for the park, or some kind of search and rescue, mapping, etc. NPS has specifically stated that drones are prohibited from all NPS lands without permission/permit from the specific park authority.

Red Rock Canyon is a Bureau of Land Management area, not NPS, so I'm not sure it's fair to compare those in a conversation about National Parks. Although really cool that BLM allows it!

I wouldn't forcefully stop anyone from flying in a national park, or report them, but I think anyone interested in the future of the hobby should say something to that pilot, because that behavior reinforces the impression amongst the general public that we don't care about following the rules. Not to mention, you could be saving that fellow pilot from a hefty fine as well as the confiscation of their gear if the rangers find them flying in the park.

Sorry to be contradictory - don't get me wrong, if you have any detailed information on getting permits, I'd be the first one who would love to hear it. I just don't see/hear any firsthand accounts of people doing so, especially for recreation.

Agreed, I don't think many people are actually getting permits. As mentioned, most people just ask and are told fine go ahead and at that point, it's not much different than a person who just took the drone up and flew it anyway. Obviously you don't do this from the park bench in front of Rushmore or behind the crowds standing around Old Faithful but there are too many NPs where you fly out back and no one will even know. There are grasslands in Kansas and abandoned stretches along the border in TX and sand dunes forever in AZ and CO. You can be on the moon in the Badlands or Devils Tower from the road. We really need to get at least some of the parks or parts of these parks opened up. My drone sat in my backseat the entire time in Denali, it was a shame. Yes Red Rock is one of those special areas not like a real BLM land. Most BLM land I can go into the wilderness and do all the shooting I want but you cannot shoot anywhere in Red Rock; that's not a real BLM. Pretty sure most drone flyers who claim they didn't know are told to stop and land.

 

[Felix le Chat]

Bah, it happened!

A couple weeks ago my wife and I went to California, including Yosemite and King’s Canyon/Sequoia National Parks. We spent most of our time at Yosemite, but did a half day drive-through of KC/S, and when we were pulling up to one of the popular panoramic lookouts in King’s Canyon, there was a guy about my age (30’s) taking off with what I think was an Air 2S, maybe a Mini, didn’t get a great look. Of course, the warning bells were going off in my head immediately when I saw that, but I figured a gentle “Hey, not sure if you know, but…” would be sufficient. And, honestly, I was hoping to see if he had any good photos/videos from areas outside the park. But, Karen beat me to it. She actually wasn’t that bad, at first anyway, just let him know that drones aren’t allowed in the parks, and he apologized and landed quickly. But then she just wouldn’t let go of how distracting it was, and how it bothered the wildlife, on and on, and then he’s on about is it really that distracting though, you can’t even hear it after it’s a little ways off… back and forth, it was a (mild) scene. She finally relented.

I chatted with him a tiny bit, asked what he was flying, but I think he was a little too frazzled to talk much. Bummer. They both got in their cars, and he tried to apologize to her out the window again in his way out, but she couldn’t just take the apology, it got the whole cycle going all over again.

I did get thinking to myself later, I bet he had to ignore a warning from the DJI Fly app, although I’m not sure if it pops up a warning inside the parks, I’ve never tried.

I’ll admit, when we were at Yosemite, there were some spots I would’ve LOVED to get even 25-50 feet up in the air, just to get above a few of those pesky nearby treetops that invade the periphery of a nice photo. But the parks are for all, and I’m not about to disrupt someone else’s enjoyment of them.

"....But the parks are for all, and I’m not about to disrupt someone else’s enjoyment of them..."
Isn't it a pity that drone-whingers don't adopt the same live-and-let-live mindset? Or more to the point - just mind their own business.

 

[JD1964]

If choose to fly in an area where permits might be required and I didn’t have one, I certainly would not pick the lot of a scenic overlook as my base. Many of those overlooks have trails that lead away from the lot. If anything, I’d try and go down a trail and find a more secluded place to “bend the rules”

 

[JoelP]

I have been told that Dead Horse Canyon in Utah can be flown in the winter with a permit that is generally available. I have not tried to get any permit for a park, but would like to hear from those that have.

 

[spsphotos]

Is your wife’s name Karen?

 

[GregS]

Have to comment about not being able to fly in a NP. 'If allowed', there would be many who would abuse the privilege, but it is my understanding that we can't fly there because we will disturb the wildlife. I certainly agree with that. However, I have been in many NP's and have heard a LOT more noise from motorcycles, cars, diesel trucks, kids screaming; than from a drone; even at takeoff. At 100' my P4P might sound like a bee flying over.
Oh, and that video above is beautiful.

 

[bmwbob]

The FAA cruise YouTube and will contact the person posting drone videos in off limit areas and fine them!

 

[DoomMeister]

Have to comment about not being able to fly in a NP. 'If allowed', there would be many who would abuse the privilege, but it is my understanding that we can't fly there because we will disturb the wildlife. I certainly agree with that. However, I have been in many NP's and have heard a LOT more noise from motorcycles, cars, diesel trucks, kids screaming; than from a drone; even at takeoff. At 100' my P4P might sound like a bee flying over.
Oh, and that video above is beautiful.

A great big “you got that right” when it comes to noise levels. There are things allowed that are considerably louder and more disruptive than a consumer grade sUAS. Even wilderness areas only request that pilots fly aircraft higher than 2000’ AGL over those areas. I’m here to attest that single engine fixed wing aircraft at 2000’ AGL are way louder than a multirotor sUAS at only 50’ AGL. The disturbing wildlife myth needs to be debunked at some point.

My opinion is that the biggest danger from sUAS in our NPS and wilderness areas would be from those that crash possibly causing a wildfire or the resultant litter caused by a low battery forced landing in an area not accessible on foot.

 

[Cafguy]

A great big “you got that right” when it comes to noise levels. There are things allowed that are considerably louder and more disruptive than a consumer grade sUAS. Even wilderness areas only request that pilots fly aircraft higher than 2000’ AGL over those areas. I’m here to attest that single engine fixed wing aircraft at 2000’ AGL are way louder than a multirotor sUAS at only 50’ AGL. The disturbing wildlife myth needs to be debunked at some point.

My opinion is that the biggest danger from sUAS in our NPS and wilderness areas would be from those that crash possibly causing a wildfire or the resultant litter caused by a low battery forced landing in an area not accessible on foot.

The risk of wildfires caused by the lipos in a downed drone or RC model was discussed at our Local RC club. It is indeed one of the many reasons they give for not being allowed to fly anything RC in a NP

 

[NewAir2sMan]

Is your wife’s name Karen?

That's not how I read it, I'm most certain he was referring to the nosy ole bitty that was squawking and carrying on that couldn't mind her own business.

Always one in every crowd.

 

[DoomMeister]

The risk of wildfires caused by the lipos in a downed drone or RC model was discussed at our Local RC club. It is indeed one of the many reasons they give for not being allowed to fly anything RC in a NP

Of course the possibility of that happening is greatly reduced by NOT flying BVLOS.

 

[mavic3usa]

Have to comment about not being able to fly in a NP. 'If allowed', there would be many who would abuse the privilege, but it is my understanding that we can't fly there because we will disturb the wildlife. I certainly agree with that. However, I have been in many NP's and have heard a LOT more noise from motorcycles, cars, diesel trucks, kids screaming; than from a drone; even at takeoff. At 100' my P4P might sound like a bee flying over.
Oh, and that video above is beautiful.

There is already a law against harassing and disturbing wildlife everywhere and it shouldn't just be in national parks. There's wildlife in the city park and I don't harass wildlife there, why would I go to a national park and try it there? If the NP could have seasonal restrictions or regional bans, that's understandable.

 

[mavic3usa]

The FAA cruise YouTube and will contact the person posting drone videos in off limit areas and fine them!

No they don't. If you posted a YT video flying circles around Mt. Rushmore, perhaps.

 

[mavic3usa]

A great big “you got that right” when it comes to noise levels. There are things allowed that are considerably louder and more disruptive than a consumer grade sUAS. Even wilderness areas only request that pilots fly aircraft higher than 2000’ AGL over those areas. I’m here to attest that single engine fixed wing aircraft at 2000’ AGL are way louder than a multirotor sUAS at only 50’ AGL. The disturbing wildlife myth needs to be debunked at some point.

My opinion is that the biggest danger from sUAS in our NPS and wilderness areas would be from those that crash possibly causing a wildfire or the resultant litter caused by a low battery forced landing in an area not accessible on foot.

One drone in, one drone out. If you don't bring it out then you pay to have it retrieved. This should take care of ht the majority of crashes. There are already a ton of illegal drone flights in NP, where are the battery fires? The only fires in the NP that we need to worry about comes from cars. I would agree with a NP restriction on sensitive areas where you couldn't afford to have a crash but open up the other areas please.

 

[Cafguy]

No they don't. If you posted a YT video flying circles around Mt. Rushmore, perhaps.

While you are correct that the F.A.A. does not pay someone to watch YouTube all day ( I need that job ) They do have a Dept. that has to deal with calls and reports from people that do. The battery fire rule actually comes from some lawmaker watching to many YouTube lipo fire videos if you ask me but the rule is there.