Windows Surface Pro 7 with Mavic Pro ?

[slozukimc]

Hi All,
I have been searching high and low and I am more confused than ever about what to buy for a PC to use with my M1P.

Right now my biggest question is this:

Seeing the M1P was made several years ago it seems to me that a computer with similar specs to what came out when the drone did would be sufficient. In 2016 an I3, 4gb 128gb ssd seems like it was pretty high up in the rankings then. I have found a Surface Pro 7 with keyboard and the above specs for $599 at Best Buy. Would that be sufficient for editing, dji Assistant 2 and anything else I might need to do with the M1P? Should I look at the next model up with no keyboard but double the ram for $699?

I want something portable so a cheap desktop is out for now. One thing about the Surface Pro I am looking at is that is has LTE connectivity so I can get a $25 per month data plan through my carrier with unlimited data. That seems more convenient than depending upon finding wifi to upload video.

I apologize for asking about something that has surely been covered and I am failing to locate the correct info and thanks to anyone with any tips.

Mike

 

[CanadaDrone]

Those are actually extremely weak specs, and I wouldn't recommend a machine like that for any kind of video editing, even MP video. Those specs are basically for light users wanting to surf the web and send a few emails.

Look for something with a bare minimum of 8GB RAM (16GB will be much better for any kind of photo/video editing, even basic editing). You also want something with at least a little bit of GPU power - the integrated graphics, especially in the bottom of the barrel i3 CPUs from 6 years ago, is not going to be adequate. I also think you will need more than 128GB - keep in mind Windows is about 30GB so you are only left with around 100GB of free space, which isn't a lot, and generally speaking it's a bad idea to load up your hard drives to 100% or near 100% capacity.

Also note that Laptop manufacturers use lots of tricks - SSDs are not all created equal (far from it), same thing with RAM and CPUs. The fact that the CPU is an "i3" for example, actually means very little - it is the specific model number of the CPU that matters for comparison sake as there can be enormous differences between generations and within model lineups. Unless it's an 11th gen H-series, I would avoid Intel altogether and look at Ryzen 5000 machines. Wattage is also very important - generally speaking there are two categories of mobile CPUs, low wattage variants designed for thin & light machines that prioritize battery life (typically denoted by an "U" designation), and higher wattage variants that prioritize performance. Both AMD and Intel denote these CPUs with an "H" designation (H, HS, HX for AMD).

For not a lot more money you should be able to find something with dramatically better specs. Look for something ideally with an AMD Ryzen 5000 H series processer, an absolute bare minimum 8GB of RAM, and at least a 256GB SSD. You will also want something with a discrete GPU if at all possible, if your budget allows. Even an entry level discrete GPU is going to be much better than anything integrated. I don't know how serious you are about editing, but a screen with at least 100% SRGB coverage is not hard to get and is the bare minimum for any kind of color work. I'm also assuming you want to keep this for a little while and not have to buy a new laptop if you get a new drone or something.

Photo/video editing is one of the most expensive tasks to build a computer for (especially as you get into the higher resolutions and high bitrate raw footage), so one other suggestion I will make is buying the LumaFusion app and an iPad (or for your iPad if you already have a semi-recent one). It's dead simple to use, one time cost (cheap), and an extremely powerful program.

RE: the unlimited LTE plans, I am not sure how it works in your area specifically, but most "unlimited" plans I have seen are only technically unlimited - they give you a base amount of data at 'normal' speeds and then throttle your speed like crazy after that point, to a degree that it is basically unusable for anything other than sending messages. I'm guessing it's not something you will want to do a lot of uploading over, but YMMV. Upload speeds are usually much slower than download speeds as well, but again - could be different in your area.

This is actually a great laptop at a great price if you can swing it, modern specs, and an order of magnitude better than even the $700 version mentioned above: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/asus-r...ce-gtx-1650-512gb-ssd/6466255.p?skuId=6466255

 

[slozukimc]

Those are actually extremely weak specs, and I wouldn't recommend a machine like that for any kind of video editing, even MP video. Those specs are basically for light users wanting to surf the web and send a few emails.

Look for something with a bare minimum of 8GB RAM (16GB will be much better for any kind of photo/video editing, even basic editing). You also want something with at least a little bit of GPU power - the integrated graphics, especially in the bottom of the barrel i3 CPUs from 6 years ago, is not going to be adequate. I also think you will need more than 128GB - keep in mind Windows is about 30GB so you are only left with around 100GB of free space, which isn't a lot, and generally speaking it's a bad idea to load up your hard drives to 100% or near 100% capacity.

Also note that Laptop manufacturers use lots of tricks - SSDs are not all created equal (far from it), same thing with RAM and CPUs. The fact that the CPU is an "i3" for example, actually means very little - it is the specific model number of the CPU that matters for comparison sake as there can be enormous differences between generations and within model lineups. Unless it's an 11th gen H-series, I would avoid Intel altogether and look at Ryzen 5000 machines. Wattage is also very important - generally speaking there are two categories of mobile CPUs, low wattage variants designed for thin & light machines that prioritize battery life (typically denoted by an "U" designation), and higher wattage variants that prioritize performance. Both AMD and Intel denote these CPUs with an "H" designation (H, HS, HX for AMD).

For not a lot more money you should be able to find something with dramatically better specs. Look for something ideally with an AMD Ryzen 5000 H series processer, an absolute bare minimum 8GB of RAM, and at least a 256GB SSD. You will also want something with a discrete GPU if at all possible, if your budget allows. Even an entry level discrete GPU is going to be much better than anything integrated. I don't know how serious you are about editing, but a screen with at least 100% SRGB coverage is not hard to get and is the bare minimum for any kind of color work. I'm also assuming you want to keep this for a little while and not have to buy a new laptop if you get a new drone or something.

Photo/video editing is one of the most expensive tasks to build a computer for (especially as you get into the higher resolutions and high bitrate raw footage), so one other suggestion I will make is buying the LumaFusion app and an iPad (or for your iPad if you already have a semi-recent one). It's dead simple to use, one time cost (cheap), and an extremely powerful program.

RE: the unlimited LTE plans, I am not sure how it works in your area specifically, but most "unlimited" plans I have seen are only technically unlimited - they give you a base amount of data at 'normal' speeds and then throttle your speed like crazy after that point, to a degree that it is basically unusable for anything other than sending messages. I'm guessing it's not something you will want to do a lot of uploading over, but YMMV. Upload speeds are usually much slower than download speeds as well, but again - could be different in your area.

This is actually a great laptop at a great price if you can swing it, modern specs, and an order of magnitude better than even the $700 version mentioned above: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/asus-r...ce-gtx-1650-512gb-ssd/6466255.p?skuId=6466255

Ok I get it. There is better and I will keep shopping around. I am still wondering why a computer with the same specs was able to do the job 5 years ago but everyone says it isn’t good enough now? Seems like a matter of wanting faster over needing faster to me. Is that the case?

 

[CanadaDrone]

Ok I get it. There is better and I will keep shopping around. I am still wondering why a computer with the same specs was able to do the job 5 years ago but everyone says it isn’t good enough now? Seems like a matter of wanting faster over needing faster to me. Is that the case?

My answer would have been the same in 2016 - those are absolute bottom of the barrel specs, pretty much the worst you could possibly find either in 2016 or today without dropping down to a machine with mobile/tablet grade hardware in it. I am not sure where you are hearing otherwise, but it is objectively untrue. Could it get through the work? Eventually perhaps, but it wouldn't be a pleasant or smooth experience. An i3/4GB/128GB machine with integrated graphics would never be something recommended even for basic editing purposes - those are machines designed for the most basic of tasks such as email, web surfing, and some light MS Office work. They prioritize battery life over performance as well, which is generally not something you want in an editing machine.

Intel hasn't changed much on the mobile side for the last 6-7 years (things are only starting to change now). All they've done is throw more and more wattage at the same CPU architecture to get single digit performance gains every couple of years. The same is not true with AMD, which is why I was suggesting a Ryzen 5000 machine. They are much faster and run much cooler than the Intel 'equivalents' in most scenarios. As I said before, the exception would be an 11th gen Intel H series CPU which are more competitive, but anything below that is not even worth buying as long as an 'equivalent' Ryzen 5000 unit is available.

For additional perspective, Windows 10 needs 2GB of RAM just to meet minimum requirements, and not having a discrete GPU means that the integrated graphics will reserve some of that RAM to be used as VRAM. So realistically you would probably only have access to around 3GB of RAM or less on a machine like that which is highly inadequate.

The computer I linked is actually a very good unit for what you're looking to do at a very good price, and high bang for the buck. It also uses a proper SSD, has quality RAM, a phenomenal CPU, performs very well in photo/video editing applications specifically, and no significant corners are cut.

Or consider the iPad route with the LumaFusion app - nothing wrong with that either and very simple for those looking to do some slightly more basic video editing.

 

[slozukimc]

My answer would have been the same in 2016 - those are absolute bottom of the barrel specs, pretty much the worst you could possibly find either in 2016 or today without dropping down to a machine with mobile/tablet grade hardware in it. I am not sure where you are hearing otherwise, but it is objectively untrue. Could it get through the work? Eventually perhaps, but it wouldn't be a pleasant or smooth experience. An i3/4GB/128GB machine with integrated graphics would never be something recommended even for basic editing purposes - those are machines designed for the most basic of tasks such as email, web surfing, and some light MS Office work. They prioritize battery life over performance as well, which is generally not something you want in an editing machine.

Intel hasn't changed much on the mobile side for the last 6-7 years (things are only starting to change now). All they've done is throw more and more wattage at the same CPU architecture to get single digit performance gains every couple of years. The same is not true with AMD, which is why I was suggesting a Ryzen 5000 machine. They are much faster and run much cooler than the Intel 'equivalents' in most scenarios. As I said before, the exception would be an 11th gen Intel H series CPU which are more competitive, but anything below that is not even worth buying as long as an 'equivalent' Ryzen 5000 unit is available.

For additional perspective, Windows 10 needs 2GB of RAM just to meet minimum requirements, and not having a discrete GPU means that the integrated graphics will reserve some of that RAM to be used as VRAM. So realistically you would probably only have access to around 3GB of RAM or less on a machine like that which is highly inadequate.

The computer I linked is actually a very good unit for what you're looking to do at a very good price, and high bang for the buck. It also uses a proper SSD, has quality RAM, a phenomenal CPU, performs very well in photo/video editing applications specifically, and no significant corners are cut.

Or consider the iPad route with the LumaFusion app - nothing wrong with that either and very simple for those looking to do some slightly more basic video editing.

Thank you very much. I looked at that PC but it said sold out. Your detailed explanation clears things up a bit for an okd huy without a clue.

I wanted to get an Ipad Pro but I want to run dji assistant 2 so need pc or Mac.

 

[CanadaDrone]

Thank you very much. I looked at that PC but it said sold out. Your detailed explanation clears things up a bit for an okd huy without a clue.

I wanted to get an Ipad Pro but I want to run dji assistant 2 so need pc or Mac.

You're most welcome.

Too bad it's sold out - I'm in Canada so it doesn't show me the stock numbers when I look at the US version of the website. At least now you have an idea of the specs / price point that would make for a good buy. That unit in particular is very high bang for the buck.

Regarding DJI Assistant, if you have no other computer available to you then I can understand needing a Laptop instead. You might be able to update Your Mavic "over the air" without using the DJI Assistant app as well, I am not sure if that feature is available on the original Mavic Pro or not (it is on the Mavic 2). In the case of the Mavic 2, the only reason you would need to actually use DJI Assistant is for certain Smart Controller updates, which does not apply to everyone.

 

[slozukimc]

You're most welcome.

Too bad it's sold out - I'm in Canada so it doesn't show me the stock numbers when I look at the US version of the website. At least now you have an idea of the specs / price point that would make for a good buy. That unit in particular is very high bang for the buck.

Regarding DJI Assistant, if you have no other computer available to you then I can understand needing a Laptop instead. You might be able to update Your Mavic "over the air" without using the DJI Assistant app as well, I am not sure if that feature is available on the original Mavic Pro or not (it is on the Mavic 2). In the case of the Mavic 2, the only reason you would need to actually use DJI Assistant is for certain Smart Controller updates, which does not apply to everyone.

I have an error message on my M1X that says calibrate vision sensors on pc or mac for better accuracy. All the computer will be for is taking video and pics from the card/drone and transferring them to a cloud account for storage and sending to folks. I really don’t want to get ito the editing and adding music and that kind of stuff.

Basically I have M1P and Goggles RE. I intend to give aerial tours and need to be able to share the video after each “ride” with the “passenger” preferably wothout worrying about wifi.

 

[CanadaDrone]

I have an error message on my M1X that says calibrate vision sensors on pc or mac for better accuracy. All the computer will be for is taking video and pics from the card/drone and transferring them to a cloud account for storage and sending to folks. I really don’t want to get ito the editing and adding music and that kind of stuff.

Basically I have M1P and Goggles RE. I intend to give aerial tours and need to be able to share the video after each “ride” with the “passenger” preferably wothout worrying about wifi.

If literally all you need it to do is move files around and upload those videos to the cloud (unedited) then you can get away with a more basic laptop for sure. If that is all it's ever going to be used for, pretty much anything will do the job if all it has to do is transfer files. I may have misunderstood you earlier, as I was under the impression this would be used for editing video. I guess what you have to decide at that point is if spending a little bit more to get a much better laptop is worth it or not, taking into consideration possible future uses, etc.

Your bigger concern might be the LTE plans - I would confirm with the carrier/provider what the upload speed is, and what "unlimited" really means. I suspect it's not truly unlimited, but something like 10GB/month and then heavily throttled beyond that so they can technically advertise it as unlimited, but aren't really giving you a useful amount of bandwidth for uploads. Just taking a quick look at Verizon, they claim their 4G LTE network has a typical upload speed of 2-5 Mbps under normal conditions, so if we assume 3Mbps for an example, that will take about 45 minutes per gigabyte to upload.

 

[slozukimc]

If literally all you need it to do is move files around and upload those videos to the cloud (unedited) then you can get away with a more basic laptop for sure. If that is all it's ever going to be used for, pretty much anything will do the job if all it has to do is transfer files. I may have misunderstood you earlier, as I was under the impression this would be used for editing video. I guess what you have to decide at that point is if spending a little bit more to get a much better laptop is worth it or not, taking into consideration possible future uses, etc.

Your bigger concern might be the LTE plans - I would confirm with the carrier/provider what the upload speed is, and what "unlimited" really means. I suspect it's not truly unlimited, but something like 10GB/month and then heavily throttled beyond that so they can technically advertise it as unlimited, but aren't really giving you a useful amount of bandwidth for uploads. Just taking a quick look at Verizon, they claim their 4G LTE network has a typical upload speed of 2-5 Mbps under normal conditions, so if we assume 3Mbps for an example, that will take about 45 minutes per gigabyte to upload.

My carrier is Sprint/T-Mobile. I am grandfathered to an older plan that does actually allow unlimited data. My wife has used 50 gigs a month on her ipad at times and no throttling that we have seen. We are also not in a high traffic area so maybe that matters.

I did say editing. I don’t even teally have a desire to learn all I would need to learn diving into that can of worms right now. I am working on getting my 107 and want to start a small business going to wineries and giving customers aerial tours of the estate. I want to be able to record the video and send it to their email somehow. If that is via a cloud link or what I don’t know but I would guess it would have to be without a huge hard drive.

Also, I see no reason to do this in 4k. I think 1080p is plenty high enough resolution for the job. What do you think?

 

[slozukimc]

Another point on the LTE is that it would only be used if there was not a good wifi network available at a particluar location.

 

[CanadaDrone]

My carrier is Sprint/T-Mobile. I am grandfathered to an older plan that does actually allow unlimited data. My wife has used 50 gigs a month on her ipad at times and no throttling that we have seen. We are also not in a high traffic area so maybe that matters.

I did say editing. I don’t even teally have a desire to learn all I would need to learn diving into that can of worms right now. I am working on getting my 107 and want to start a small business going to wineries and giving customers aerial tours of the estate. I want to be able to record the video and send it to their email somehow. If that is via a cloud link or what I don’t know but I would guess it would have to be without a huge hard drive.

Also, I see no reason to do this in 4k. I think 1080p is plenty high enough resolution for the job. What do you think?

OK well it sounds like you won't have issues with throttling, but you are still going to be looking at around 30 minutes per gigabyte to upload over LTE when Wifi is not available. I found some tests on Sprint/Tmobile upload speeds and they are similar to other carriers around 4Mbps. Just something to be aware of. Given your intended usage, it's probably not a big deal for your clients wait 24h or so to get their video anyway if Wifi isn't available.

You can make a private YouTube channel if you want to share videos with clients, but if you want them to be able to download the actual file, you will probably need to use a service like Google Drive, Dropbox, Smugmug, WeTransfer, etc. You've got some options for sure. If you are charging money for this service, people are probably expecting a video that has been edited to a certain degree - I personally would be. You know your clients better than me though.

Another option for you would be to transfer the video(s) to a USB flash drive, give that to the customer, and avoid the upload process entirely. I am not sure how big the file sizes are you are generally making, but just as one example, you can buy bulk 4GB USB flash drives for $2-3 each. This only works if you aren't editing the videos though, but the customer would get the video in a matter of minutes.

Regarding 4K, it's up to you. Generally speaking, it's best to shoot in the highest resolution conveniently available to you. Even purposely shooting in a higher resolution than the intended output resolution has a variety of benefits such as lossless cropping, panning, etc. Most of the advantages with regards to shooting a higher resolution than the output/delivery resolution have to do with editing flexibility.

4K (or higher) is going to give you the greatest longevity as the years go by and extend the useful service life of your footage. 4K is so common these days, some of your clients might expect it, but you would know better than me on that one. It also matters how the videos will be consumed on the other end - if people are only watching them on smartphones/tablets/computers, most people do not have 4K screens there. If they are watching them on their home televisions, 4K TV's are much more common. If it were me, I would always shoot in the highest resolution available.

 

[slozukimc]

OK well it sounds like you won't have issues with throttling, but you are still going to be looking at around 30 minutes per gigabyte to upload over LTE when Wifi is not available. I found some tests on Sprint/Tmobile upload speeds and they are similar to other carriers around 4Mbps. Just something to be aware of. Given your intended usage, it's probably not a big deal for your clients wait 24h or so to get their video anyway if Wifi isn't available.

You can make a private YouTube channel if you want to share videos with clients, but if you want them to be able to download the actual file, you will probably need to use a service like Google Drive, Dropbox, Smugmug, WeTransfer, etc. You've got some options for sure. If you are charging money for this service, people are probably expecting a video that has been edited to a certain degree - I personally would be. You know your clients better than me though.

Another option for you would be to transfer the video(s) to a USB flash drive, give that to the customer, and avoid the upload process entirely. I am not sure how big the file sizes are you are generally making, but just as one example, you can buy bulk 4GB USB flash drives for $2-3 each. This only works if you aren't editing the videos though, but the customer would get the video in a matter of minutes.

Regarding 4K, it's up to you. Generally speaking, it's best to shoot in the highest resolution conveniently available to you. Even purposely shooting in a higher resolution than the intended output resolution has a variety of benefits such as lossless cropping, panning, etc. Most of the advantages with regards to shooting a higher resolution than the output/delivery resolution have to do with editing flexibility.

4K (or higher) is going to give you the greatest longevity as the years go by and extend the useful service life of your footage. 4K is so common these days, some of your clients might expect it, but you would know better than me on that one. It also matters how the videos will be consumed on the other end - if people are only watching them on smartphones/tablets/computers, most people do not have 4K screens there. If they are watching them on their home televisions, 4K TV's are much more common. If it were me, I would always shoot in the highest resolution available.

I like the flash drive suggestion. That makes a lot of sense. As far as knowing my customers, this all new to me so you know them as well as I. Lol

What do they expect? I don’t know. The “tour” itself is supposed to be the selling point. With the M1P and Goggles RE I can pilot and they can ride along and control the gimbal. The video is intended to be a way for them to show others what the blew 30 bucks on. Hahahha

I have been self employed for many years but more recently my back has got to the point where I need a source of income that doesn’t require a ton of hard work. I picked up these drones and had an idea for aerial tours and now I am here with these questions. I am trying to see if I can put together all I need within my budget and get started next summer if all goes well.

Thanks agian, Mike

 

[CanadaDrone]

Best of luck to you Mike.

 

[slozukimc]

A pic of my babies all suited up and ready for whatever NY can throw at them. Lol

 

[John Locke]

4K or 1080?
Let the customer decide. Make a 1080 sample golf tour video and a 4K sample video. Show them to your customers and provide your pricing based on their preferred resolution. You should not be assuming all customers will be happy with 1080, nor should you assume 4K will be preferred. Everyone is different. Statistically 90% of the views for golf tours will be using a 1080 device to view the video, however that doesn't mean the club owner will settle for 1080. Offer both at a different price point.

You'll find 4K editing more time consuming, and also more demanding from your desktop system. If you're serious about this, you'll eventually get a desktop system with a 4K monitor and lots of storage so you're prepared to do editing for both resolutions.

My prediction is that 75% of your customers will be OK with 1080 after seeing 1080 samples of golf course tours on YouTube. I think you have a good idea for a business, if you can convince club owners to invest. I've often thought an aerial video tour of each hole would be a compelling product to offer.

The entry into this type business would take a little work to create your sample golf tour videos. I'm sure samples of 3 or 4 holes would be enough to decide on 1080 or 4K. I bet most clubs don't have a 4K display (Smart TV) with adequate internet speed to see the 4K samples, IMHO. And don't forget you'll have to obtain permission from the course owner to fly 3 or 4 holes, whether or not you charge them. You'll also need their written permission to use the video as sample stock videos on YouTube. Written permission is to prevent court cases in the future, trust me on that.

 

[slozukimc]

4K or 1080?
Let the customer decide. Make a 1080 sample golf tour video and a 4K sample video. Show them to your customers and provide your pricing based on their preferred resolution. You should not be assuming all customers will be happy with 1080, nor should you assume 4K will be preferred. Everyone is different. Statistically 90% of the views for golf tours will be using a 1080 device to view the video, however that doesn't mean the club owner will settle for 1080. Offer both at a different price point.
You'll find 4K editing more time consuming, and more demanding from your desktop system. If you're serious about this, you'll eventually get a desktop system with a 4K monitor so you're prepared to do editing for both resolutions.

My prediction is that 75% of your customers will be OK with 1080 after seeing 1080 samples of golf course tours on YouTube. I think you have a good idea if you can convince club owners to invest. I've often thought an aerial video tour of each hole would be a compelling product to offer.

Thank you. I do intend to get a desktop in the future but figured I could get by with a laptop. I am certainly seeing that I may need to rethink that and go with a desktop first and just do all of the video work at home. Then I have the problem of multiple sd cards to keep track of. I also need to do a sample tour and see just how much storage I am looking at if I have a busy day.

I just found this at Best Buy: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/apple-...-flash-storage-silver/6113612.p?skuId=6113612

 

[slozukimc]

What do you guys say about this one?

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/apple-pre-owned-15-4laptop-intel-core-i7-16gb-memory-nvidia-geforce-gt-750m-512gb-solid-state-drive-silver/6280422.p?skuId=6280422

Seems very video oriented to me……

 

[MavicAir2Marc]

I would say if you're looking at older equipment. a Mac laptop would give you enough to get started. I'm still running a 2010 iMac for work (prepress/graphics) and started with a 2013 MacBook Pro for my video editing. I just recently got an M1 Mac Mini and it's a dream to work on for everything. The point is, Mac's will last a long time before becoming obsolete. The MacBook you referenced above would work great to start out with. For a little more though, you could get the Mac Mini.

 

[CanadaDrone]

You'll find 4K editing more time consuming, and also more demanding from your desktop system. If you're serious about this, you'll eventually get a desktop system with a 4K monitor and lots of storage so you're prepared to do editing for both resolutions.

If you edit with a proxy, the only thing that will take longer is the final encoding of the video. Programs like Davinci Resolve have made this much easier for folks without really powerful computers.

 

[slozukimc]

If you edit with a proxy, the only thing that will take longer is the final encoding of the video. Programs like Davinci Resolve have made this much easier for folks without really powerful computers.

What does “edit woth a proxy” mean?