Your opinions of this land trust drone policy

[Aerophile]

Thanks for sharing this. I'm late to this, just watched the video. Lots of "hmmm" from me.

I can easily see how many would indeed view that flight as "reckless." Repeated very low passes, very close to people/vessels/structures, including buzzing the cops, a few aerobatics over/near roads with passing cars tossed in as the cherry on top. The fact that he didn't know it was cops he was buzzing isn't going to gain him any sympathy. I'll be interested in hearing how this goes.

What is the jurisdiction/what kind of cops is/are charging him?

I'm guessing that the FAA would not want to wade into this. That said, if they did, I would not be shocked if they considered this flight reckless -- IME the FAA generally takes a very dim view of buzzing and other "hot-dogging" and that's what this flight looks like.

BTW what kind of drone? Sure sounds different.

 

[DoomMeister]

BTW what kind of drone? Sure sounds different.

An FPV drone. Small, fast, maneuverable, and takes true piloting skills to fly. No GPS assist, no altitude assist, you are on the sticks for the entire flight.

My son is very accomplished with one. Besides the aerobatic stunts in open air he has navigated through arboreal mazes. I can’t even begin to do this, nor do I want to. My hat is off to those with the dexterity to fly like that.

I did not see this flight as being reckless. He was never over people or moving vehicles with passengers from the footage I saw. I would be shocked if he ever got within 30 feet of anyone.

Best of luck in court. They really have no leg to stand on in my opinion.

P.S. Which Lake George?

 

[R0CKETMAN]

How was Paul ID’d?

 

[BobaFut]

Arrested by who ? Do US police arrest people on the request of others, surely they will only arrest someone if they are satisfied that an actual law has been broken?

LMAO. They’ll cite/arrest you on a whim and let the prosecutors sort it out later.

 

[Jagerbomb52]

Copy and past from the Paul
Just familiarize your self with the story is scary if you fly drones that they can criminalize a situation like this. Absurdity! Paul’s Story: On August 13, 2022, I was on vacation with my fiance and two children at Lake George in New York. I am a drone pilot, and I was flying my drone legally over the waters of Lake George. A harbor patrol boat approached me and told me that I was "too close to the water" and that I had to "fly higher." I am well aware of the rules and regulations when flying a drone as I am a student of the Pilot Institute. I explained to the officer that I was following the rules and not violating any laws by flying close to the water. The officer got extremely upset and yelled, "You need to fly higher, or I am going to write you a ticket!" I explained to the officer that I did not believe he could write me a ticket for flying close to the water. The officer parked his boat and approached me. I tried explaining to the officer that my flight was legal and I was not violating any laws, but he did not have any interest in hearing what I had to say. He spent the next half hour on the phone with his supervisor trying to figure out what he would write on the ticket. The officer charged me with a misdemeanor offense of New York penal code 120.20 (reckless endangerment in the 2nd degree). On my first court date, I requested that future court hearings be held virtually or at a closer venue as I am disabled and have severe mobility issues. The Americans with Disabilities Act requires state and local governments to allow me a reasonable accommodation due to my disability. The New York State Unified Court System has a policy in place stating that I am entitled to such an accommodation due to my disability (https://ww2.nycourts.gov/Accessibilit.... The judge in this case denied both request and did not follow proper procedure in his denial of my rights. I have not committed any crime. I followed all laws required during my flight. My flight was heavily focused on safety but I will require legal advocacy to let the truth be heard in this court. I cannot do that without your help. This court is comparing my aircraft in flight to bullets fired from a gun and rocks thrown a hand. While it may sound absurd, this is the language that is being used against me by the prosecution in this case. They are doing so to avoid the jurisdiction of the FAA, the sole entity that controls all airspace in the United States of America. If I lose this case, I face a 1 year jail sentence. That would be devastating for my family and myself.

 

[BobaFut]

Copy and past from the Paul
Just familiarize your self with the story is scary if you fly drones that they can criminalize a situation like this. Absurdity! Paul’s Story: On August 13, 2022, I was on vacation with my fiance and two children at Lake George in New York. I am a drone pilot, and I was flying my drone legally over the waters of Lake George. A harbor patrol boat approached me and told me that I was "too close to the water" and that I had to "fly higher." I am well aware of the rules and regulations when flying a drone as I am a student of the Pilot Institute. I explained to the officer that I was following the rules and not violating any laws by flying close to the water. The officer got extremely upset and yelled, "You need to fly higher, or I am going to write you a ticket!" I explained to the officer that I did not believe he could write me a ticket for flying close to the water. The officer parked his boat and approached me. I tried explaining to the officer that my flight was legal and I was not violating any laws, but he did not have any interest in hearing what I had to say. He spent the next half hour on the phone with his supervisor trying to figure out what he would write on the ticket. The officer charged me with a misdemeanor offense of New York penal code 120.20 (reckless endangerment in the 2nd degree). On my first court date, I requested that future court hearings be held virtually or at a closer venue as I am disabled and have severe mobility issues. The Americans with Disabilities Act requires state and local governments to allow me a reasonable accommodation due to my disability. The New York State Unified Court System has a policy in place stating that I am entitled to such an accommodation due to my disability (https://ww2.nycourts.gov/Accessibilit.... The judge in this case denied both request and did not follow proper procedure in his denial of my rights. I have not committed any crime. I followed all laws required during my flight. My flight was heavily focused on safety but I will require legal advocacy to let the truth be heard in this court. I cannot do that without your help. This court is comparing my aircraft in flight to bullets fired from a gun and rocks thrown a hand. While it may sound absurd, this is the language that is being used against me by the prosecution in this case. They are doing so to avoid the jurisdiction of the FAA, the sole entity that controls all airspace in the United States of America. If I lose this case, I face a 1 year jail sentence. That would be devastating for my family and myself.

Obviously it’s important to fight for your rights, but you also have to pick your battles because there is an extreme power imbalance at play here. Even if you just apologize and act like you’re gonna comply, you can just go back to what you’re doing after they leave.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

"You need to fly higher, or I am going to write you a ticket!" I explained to the officer that I did not believe he could write me a ticket for flying close to the water. The officer parked his boat and approached me. I tried explaining to the officer that my flight was legal and I was not violating any laws, but he did not have any interest in hearing what I had to say. He spent the next half hour on the phone with his supervisor trying to figure out what he would write on the ticket. The officer charged me with a misdemeanor offense of New York penal code 120.20 (reckless endangerment in the 2nd degree).

Well, in this case it should get thrown out, if it even gets by the prosecution team (obviously it has with the first hearing).
There is NO rule about how low you fly, in fact if common sense were applied, the higher a flight, the more damage a falling drone could do.
The Police could only perhaps cite him to the FAA, if they though he flew higher than 400', and got to close to flying over people, or they thought he was flying BVLOS.

This secondary topic is important, and really needs its own thread now.
Perhaps all relevant posts since and including post #33 from Big Al, and excluding Karlblessing post at #37, can be moved to a new thread topic ?
With a link to it here ?

 

[DoomMeister]

Let’s get back to the original topic of this thread. At the suggestion of @MAvic_South_Oz the posts related to Paul and the Lake George incident have been copied to the thread Lake George incident - reckless or not? so please continue the discussion of that in the thread I created. Thank you!

 

[retiredNH]

Let’s get back to the original topic of this thread. At the suggestion of @MAvic_South_Oz the posts related to Paul and the Lake George incident have been copied to the thread Lake George incident - reckless or not? so please continue the discussion of that in the thread I created. Thank you!

What was the original topic?

This discussion has been very interesting because so many folks don't understand that what they think is right or wrong doesn't matter (unless they're on a jury?). Law is full of nuance seldom understood by lay folks. Then there's the power imbalance others have mentioned.

Is it worth the risk of a nuisance arrest? There are quite a few reasons to arrest we lay folks may not be aware of...

 

[Skydreamer]

I am curious if xxxtrust can sue pilot if pilot takes off from public grounds but his drone drops down on grounds owned by xxxtrust,ithink they would sue for damages if any but iam curious if they can use that as nofly tresspasing or something like that….not sure if am explaining my question properly,i am thinking if in this country placing your hand on someones shoulder can be called an “assault “,dropping drone on someone could be called attempted murder(particularly around election time when officials need good ratings on “fight against crime” )

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

I am curious if xxxtrust can sue pilot if pilot takes off from public grounds but his drone drops down on grounds owned by xxxtrust,ithink they would sue for damages if any but iam curious if they can use that as nofly tresspasing or something like that….not sure if am explaining my question properly,i am thinking if in this country placing your hand on someones shoulder can be called an “assault “,dropping drone on someone could be called attempted murder(particularly around election time when officials need good ratings on “fight against crime” )

If the drone caused damages to property, for sure they could sue, just like anyone could sue for damages caused by another.

With country properties where there are no buildings, or even people in general, a crashing drone starting a bushfire (wildfire) could also be high on their list of prevention.
Here in Australia, flights over many reservoirs supplying drinking water have bans on drone overflight, supposedly for possible environmental damage to the supply . . . perhaps this sort of thing can be enforced more strongly than some randomly applied bans over city parks etc.

Yes, the risks are small for the above.

If they are worried about it causing injury to persons on xxxtrust land, then again they could sue, or even file reckless behaviour type charges in the event such an injury occurred.

To anyone that doesn't understand what the majority of consumer drone pilots do in the air, we certainly are an easy target for often blatant hysteria.

 

[KI5RLL]

I bet every single one of them are walking around with spy cameras in their pockets, ready and eager to film anyone (pilots) they don’t to be filming. So that’s their logic. It can only be a spy drone, though my SD card is empty as they are using their spy camera (phone) to film me. Hmmmm.
So watch them next. Prohibiting me using the air above them also for radio wave propagation (FCC jurisdiction.)
Hey I can even ground effect my signal right off their dirt and buildings oh my!
So how are they contacting NASA to prohibit spacecraft above their property?
Airplanes and helicopters?
Sad how the more clueless they are, the more they want to manufacture stupid illegal
rules for everyone else.

 

[AMann]

Well, unless the FAA has placed restrictions on it, you can fly over their property, but if someone is taking pictures of their property and selling them, they do have some legal recourse for that. Also, one would probably not be able to publish the photos either as most publishers would not accept it without a property release.

 

[KI5RLL]

Well, unless the FAA has placed restrictions on it, you can fly over their property, but if someone is taking pictures of their property and selling them, they do have some legal recourse for that. One would probably not be able to publish the photos either as most publishers would not accept it without a property release.

Google Earth satellite begs to differ.
Good points you make here though yes!

 

[Vic Moss]

Well, unless the FAA has placed restrictions on it, you can fly over their property, but if someone is taking pictures of their property and selling them, they do have some legal recourse for that. Also, one would probably not be able to publish the photos either as most publishers would not accept it without a property release.

I’ve done this for over 35 years. And I’ve never been asked for a property release.

 

[AMann]

I’ve done this for over 35 years. And I’ve never been asked for a property release.

Vic, you’re a well established photographer- I’m a hobbyist and have sold images through Alamy and they always asked for a property release, even for scenic photos over public lands that I’ve sold. I also needed to get a commercial permit from BLM to do some shots as well that were sold.

This is a typical example of what Alamy requests for selling shots of privately property:

https://www.alamy.com/contributors/Alamy-stock-photography-property-release-form.pdf

 

[AMann]

Google Earth satellite begs to differ.
Good points you make here though yes!

Who sells google earth photos? There are no regulations about taking pictures from locations that do not invade privacy. My point was when you start selling pictures of property, both inside and out, some publishers won’t accept them without a property and model release (especially if people are recognizable in them). In California, you do need to get permission to sell someone else’s closeup image for commercial use - but there’s an exception if it’s done in public in a crowd.

 

[DoomMeister]

Well, unless the FAA has placed restrictions on it, you can fly over their property, but if someone is taking pictures of their property and selling them, they do have some legal recourse for that. Also, one would probably not be able to publish the photos either as most publishers would not accept it without a property release.

There is no restriction taking aerial photos of properties from a plane or helicopter that I am aware of that requires a property release so the same would go for a drone.

Some states do have laws about surveillance using a drone, but that is a different thing altogether and does not have anything to do with just taking a photo or video.

 

[Jagerbomb52]

There is no restriction taking aerial photos of properties from a plane or helicopter that I am aware of that requires a property release so the same would go for a drone.

Some states do have laws about surveillance using a drone, but that is a different thing altogether and does not have anything to do with just taking a photo or video.

In the group called UAV Laws & Discussion on facebook that Vic belongs to I have seen posts about people that need to get releases for property shoots in Vegas. Seems a lot of buildings have trade mark logos or the who building is considered a trade mark so perhaps the release form that @AMann posted would cover some of those type of photos. I cannot see it being applied for anything else but then again I am not a lawyer .

 

[AMann]

There is no restriction taking aerial photos of properties from a plane or helicopter that I am aware of that requires a property release so the same would go for a drone.

Some states do have laws about surveillance using a drone, but that is a different thing altogether and does not have anything to do with just taking a photo or video.

Yeah, I should’ve said “legal recourse”, but what I was really meaning by that post was some publishers won’t accept photos of certain properties without a property release.

In the group called UAV Laws & Discussion on facebook that Vic belongs to I have seen posts about people that need to get releases for property shoots in Vegas. Seems a lot of buildings have trade mark logos or the who building is considered a trade mark so perhaps the release form that @AMann posted would cover some of those type of photos. I cannot see it being applied for anything else but then again I am not a lawyer .

yeah, that was my point regarding private property and private buildings, you’re probably fine on private open spaces. Another place you need a permit would be on federal and state lands where they regulate commercial use including commercial photography.