Is what DJI does with the Mavic legal?

[Someone Else]

I lost two android devices to updates.
Ended up buying an iPad since the DJI developers seem to be apple fan boys I figured that was the logical upgrade path. That particular Go4 upgrade was forced. I couldn't fly till Go4 was upgraded. Then I couldn't fly because my phone & tablet were no longer compatible whereas prior to the update everything worked fine.

Here is where I get really confused by people that buy complex electronics and have absolutely no understanding of hardware limitations.

As far as updates bricking devices: Were they new devices or older ones that had simply reached their limit? Do you buy a phone or pc and expect it to just flawlessly run the newest apps/programs forever, or do you understand that as software/apps increase in their need for processor power the hardware needs to be updated/replaced. If that were not the case I'd still be using my iPhone 4 as my daily device.

The claim that they are Apple fan boys is just willfully ignorant in this context. The reality is that Apple makes their products much easier to write apps for by having guidelines that encompass their entire product line as opposed to the "be an individual" android train of thought. A small example I face weekly as a service writer in the car business it that while we occasionally see bluetooth functionality issues with Apple products the majority of issues we see are Android. I'm not talking about Samsung vs Motorola either, You can take a Galaxy S7 from 3 different providers and they will all have different features and functionality with the same car.
A coder can write an app for Apple products and not have to worry about how it will perform on AT&T or T-mobile, with Android that is a big concern. The vast majority of problems people have while using Android devices can easily be traced back to the device itself or conflicting apps that the user has installed and possibly configured in a way that can interfere with the operation of other apps.

 

[MacPap]

Ironically, it's you that keeps missing the point, as evidenced by your statement right there: He did not have to update the software. He can continue to use the product he purchased, just as he purchased it, with the bugs.

Which, by the way, he agreed to explicitly when activating the product. Which you'd know if you had read what you were agreeing to. Something that, had you read it, you could have chosen not to agree to and returned the product for a refund.

What this comes down to is you want something you didn't buy. You did not buy a drone with a guarantee of future firmware releases that only contained bug fixes. That's a fantasy in your mind, born of agreeing to license terms without bothering to understand them.

Meaning that DJI sold him a faulty device knowingly. "He can continue to use the product he purchased, just as he purchased it, with the bugs". And you find that normal and legal....

 

[MacPap]

... Do you buy a phone or pc and expect it to just flawlessly run the newest apps/programs forever, or do you understand that as software/apps increase in their need for processor power the hardware needs to be updated/replaced. If that were not the case I'd still be using my iPhone 4 as my daily device....

No of course not. But I also do not expect the company that sells it instead of remeding for the bugs to force me to install a new software and accept new TOS that restricts the devices abilities...

 

[Foxtrot Uniform]

They had no other choice? Did someone hold a gun to their head and force them to use this? There are other drones out there. And no I'm not ok with any company forcing their will on people like this. But what is their "will? DJI announces an update and suddenly everyone is talking about broadcasting this and tracking that and their Mavics becoming a paperweight and new evil TOS and countdown timers and the sun not coming out tomorrow. Based on what? Nobody even knows what was in the first TOS because nobody even read it. Yet everyone is going nuts over this one that may not have even changed. And people seem convinced this update will allow bricking and restrictions of the drone at DJI's will. Where are the people with any these claims even getting this information? Its absolutely ridiculous. Ill I'm asking is that if people want to come here and stoke the fire with their preposterous claims then back it up and provide proof.

In total agreement with you. All this hysteria without knowing Any Info. All this, without The TOS being published.

 

[Foxtrot Uniform]

No because the current firmware/software has bugs they want to eliminate so they can use the product as advertized.....;-)

What are the "bugs"in the current firmware/software?
I haven't experienced any, but they may be some.
I'd like to know, if they affect my flying.

 

[SkunkWerx's]

Here is where I get really confused by people that buy complex electronics and have absolutely no understanding of hardware limitations.

As far as updates bricking devices: Were they new devices or older ones that had simply reached their limit? Do you buy a phone or pc and expect it to just flawlessly run the newest apps/programs forever, or do you understand that as software/apps increase in their need for processor power the hardware needs to be updated/replaced. If that were not the case I'd still be using my iPhone 4 as my daily device.

The claim that they are Apple fan boys is just willfully ignorant in this context. The reality is that Apple makes their products much easier to write apps for by having guidelines that encompass their entire product line as opposed to the "be an individual" android train of thought. A small example I face weekly as a service writer in the car business it that while we occasionally see bluetooth functionality issues with Apple products the majority of issues we see are Android. I'm not talking about Samsung vs Motorola either, You can take a Galaxy S7 from 3 different providers and they will all have different features and functionality with the same car.
A coder can write an app for Apple products and not have to worry about how it will perform on AT&T or T-mobile, with Android that is a big concern. The vast majority of problems people have while using Android devices can easily be traced back to the device itself or conflicting apps that the user has installed and possibly configured in a way that can interfere with the operation of other apps.

It really is a simple matter , the Mavic is a camera drone it was designed to fly take pictures and videos and it does it well , how much more software would be needed, if your happy with the performance why change it or be forced to change it ?
As for the Apple / Android issues you speak of , please explain to me when the Mavic system software is made using the Android software platform ??? Now all android devices run all android software apps with no problem why is an android device having so many issues with the Mavic android system ? I'm sure you can figure this out . Name calling is ignorant it is uncalled for just because of Device preference , there's more going on then many may believe to know !!
Cheer's

 

[SkunkWerx's]

What are the "bugs"in the current firmware/software?
I haven't experienced any, but they may be some.
I'd like to know, if they affect my flying.

Over at DJI's Mavic Forum I'm still seeing much of the same Sudden power loss, Mavic dropping out of the sky, Camera and gimbal issues .It just amazes me how a company can implement new software with a new TOS that is to Police the user when they can't even fix the previous software problems that cause loss to many ? can it be that DJI could care less ? They do make a small fortune with repairs
My opinion is they don't want owners to be able to understand the Mavic system let alone Fix It . In my mind this will be DJI's downfall of the Mavic , when you lock someone out when they bought a product that cost more then many can afford and it is considered a HOBBY, DJI underestimated the mind of the Hobbyist , we are good with our hands , we can understand complex information and many of us have experience with electronics and software application's , so lock us out , We will find a way in , DJI can call it whatever it wants = Hacking , breach of TOS it doesn't matter we bought it, we own it , we do what we want with it, Not DJI.
Never underestimate the Mind of a Hobbyist !
Cheer's

 

[Someone Else]

It really is a simple matter , the Mavic is a camera drone it was designed to fly take pictures and videos and it does it well , how much more software would be needed, if your happy with the performance why change it or be forced to change it ?

As shown by the many people that have chosen to remain running .400 and not update their GO4 app because they are happy with the function and stability of it there isn't any reason to change it. The only reason I could see for a "forced" update is if you updated the device you were using and the device no longer supported the old GO4 app version.

As for the Apple / Android issues you speak of , please explain to me when the Mavic system software is made using the Android software platform ??? Now all android devices run all android software apps with no problem why is an android device having so many issues with the Mavic android system ? I'm sure you can figure this out .

The Mavic uses android KitKat I believe, my phone is running Nougat, how many different versions of android are floating around out there? All android apps do not run stable on all android devices. I've had apps more than once that would run on my Galaxy Tab but not on my HTC phone or the other way around. With Android you also have the issue of bloatware from the service provider unless the device has been rooted.

Name calling is ignorant it is uncalled for just because of Device preference , there's more going on then many may believe to know !!
Cheer's

Bashing technology you (not you specifically) don't understand and making unsubstantiated claims about what a company is planning with absolutely no proof of it is ignorant.

 

[ecoleman]

You will still be forced to upgrade eventually. How do you not understand that?

Just like your windows PC, Apple Mac, iPhone, android phone, TV etc etc. Welcome to an ever evolving technological world.

 

[MacPap]

What are the "bugs"in the current firmware/software?
I haven't experienced any, but they may be some.
I'd like to know, if they affect my flying.

The Forum is full of people complaining about Android incompatibilities for example...

 

[Someone Else]

The Forum is full of people complaining about Android incompatibilities for example...

Posts that consist of "I have an android device and I have a problem"?

My Mavic/Android "problems" were the following:

1) When I first got my Mavic my phone disconnected several times during my initial flights. I of course got irritated but went right to google. I was directed to this site and the DJI forum. On both forums I read a whole bunch of complaints where people were asked questions they never responded to in the thread. One was if they had tried a different cable from the controller to the device. I did and it was better. So not the fault of the hardware or firmware.

2) Started having disconnect problems with just my phone again. Started reading the Forums again and found that people had problems with app notifications causing disconnects. Disabled notifications and made sure I force stopped a couple of apps before starting GO4 and haven't had a problem since.

I'm not saying there are not people out there having legitimate issues but dealing with tech for a long time I've seen a lot of problems that are operator error caused by clicking yes when no should have been clicked or allowing or disallowing an app the permission it either should or shouldn't have.

 

[wayy510]

Just like your windows PC, Apple Mac, iPhone, android phone, TV etc etc. Welcome to an ever evolving technological world.

I think you missed the point smart guy.

 

[MacPap]

I think soon it will be irrelevant what DJI does (ROFLMAO)

Proposed Rules Would Allow U.S. to Track and Destroy Drones

 

[xa6driver]

Ok I have a question that is bothering me for some time now...

When I ordered my Mavic I did so evaluating its abilities and reading and watching all the promotional videos of the company regarding its performance.

Now after a couple o months DJI asks for a forced firmware update that could restrict the Mavic even more and all that without my consent....

So here is the question. Can DJI do that? Take away abilities for which I have payed and which were decisive in my initial decision to go for the Mavic? Can they simply say "if you do not do what i say ill cripple the product you bought"?
Can they really legally change a product to something inferior to what I bought and get away with it?

Or is there a way to get them to refund me (and all users for that matter) the difference in dollars between the Mavic and a drone that can simply fly 50m away 30m up and has no cam costing a couple of bucks?

Kostas

 

[xa6driver]

Ok I have a question that is bothering me for some time now...

When I ordered my Mavic I did so evaluating its abilities and reading and watching all the promotional videos of the company regarding its performance.

Now after a couple o months DJI asks for a forced firmware update that could restrict the Mavic even more and all that without my consent....

So here is the question. Can DJI do that? Take away abilities for which I have payed and which were decisive in my initial decision to go for the Mavic? Can they simply say "if you do not do what i say ill cripple the product you bought"?
Can they really legally change a product to something inferior to what I bought and get away with it?

Or is there a way to get them to refund me (and all users for that matter) the difference in dollars between the Mavic and a drone that can simply fly 50m away 30m up and has no cam costing a couple of bucks?

Kostas

In following this discussion it's difficult to determine which post to reply. Having read all the posts so far there's nothing I can add that hasn't already been said. Except to say that after reading this link:
Drone Found in Arms Bust… Spells New Options for Terrorists
Homebrew Terrorism Is Getting Smarter... 1 New Thing Found in Arms Bust
...I have concluded that DJI is being pressured by the government to ensure as best they can to reduce the potential threat that sub-humans can use this technology against the innocent. No need to elaborate on who these sub-humans are other than to say they're here to stay and our country, freedoms, and technology will suffer the consequences. On another note, after giving up on my 3DR Solo the MP has performed flawlessly with a few owner/operator errors. Will continue to fly using its present firmware until such time the sub-humans and the government make it impossible...which seems to be the handwriting on the wall...

 

[MacPap]

the thing xa6driver is that all these restrictions aply to people that respect the law. All these stupid people that these restriction are supposed to target simply and plain dont care they are outlaws anyway. They are supposed to not follow restrictions. Thats what they do.

 

[cplmac]

Just keep flying your old firmware and app version offline. Everything stays like it is forever

I never approved an app upgrade, it just did it and now I'm stuck with no video feed until I update. It still flies off the controller no problem but the app no longer connects to the AC/RC.

PS:
The Mav is not a suitable platform for any kind of illicit terrorist activity, it has the payload capacity of a paper plane.

 

[xa6driver]

the thing xa6driver is that all these restrictions aply to people that respect the law. All these stupid people that these restriction are supposed to target simply and plain dont care they are outlaws anyway. They are supposed to not follow restrictions. Thats what they do.

Could not agree with you more! And that is why PC will continue to erode all the enjoyment of a hobby so innocent in nature which for me is a substitute for an aviation career both commercial and military because our society (need I say what segment) has devolved to the point where just boarding a Commerical airline or flying a drone has become the inevitable result of a country acquiescing in trading freedom for security (Ben Franklin). You call these people "outlaws" ?. I have another name for them and they're the reason for this discussion. Thank you for your response. I don't visit this forum very often but when I do I find the discussion extremely informative. Some like "Larkin" have been disappointing regarding a problem I had with "radio signal lost" but others on this forum seemed to have validated similar problems which encouraged me to continue with my enrollment with this site. I expect the day will come when you can't float a helium balloon without a permit.

 

[Robbyg]

I think the people that don't see the issues with the new DJI system are just not taking into account that software is not hardware and you cannot use legal practices for software when dealing with a hardware based product.

Keep in mind DJI touted the mavics ability to fly with just the remote. They do not even include a display device or built in apps with the package when purchased. So we now go out and download an app that has the ability to intentional degrade the hardware we purchased.

The Mavic falls in a very Grey area . We can comfort ourselves and say well it's just the Chinese pilots, but what will you say if congress puts a 150ft altitude cap on hobby drones? Is anyone going to be defending the update then?

Lastly I see serious legal problems for DJI. What they are doing is no different than if an auto maker pushed an update to throttle down your cars maximum speed.

Given the individual lawsuit that just got rid of the FAA registration, I wonder how DJI would stand up in court against a lawsuit.

Rob

 

[reckless]

Here is where I get really confused by people that buy complex electronics and have absolutely no understanding of hardware limitations.

DJI products are sold as "Ready to fly", why does anybody have to be an "expert in complex electronics and hardware limitations"? Seems to be a peculiar demand on a quad operator who simply wants to shoot aerial video straight out of the box as advertised.....
This member had enough and didn't want to be an expert in complex electronics and hardware limitations:
Became more complicated than fun... Sold it!

As far as updates bricking devices: Were they new devices or older ones that had simply reached their limit? Do you buy a phone or pc and expect it to just flawlessly run the newest apps/programs forever, or do you understand that as software/apps increase in their need for processor power the hardware needs to be updated/replaced. If that were not the case I'd still be using my iPhone 4 as my daily device.

Tablet was purchased as a dedicated unit, didn't run anything else except what was required for flying and once everything was running as it should it did not require any further updates and would have remained like that till the cows came home. When I purchase a device it should run the apps it was purchased for, doubly so if it appears on the DJI compatibility list and once it is on the list it should remain there or the user should not be forced onto the upgrade path particularly if the only addition is something silly like "fixed wing mode" and causes the hardware to become obsolete that was working perfectly well prior to Go4 updates.

The claim that they are Apple fan boys is just willfully ignorant in this context. The reality is that Apple makes their products much easier to write apps for by having guidelines that encompass their entire product line as opposed to the "be an individual" android train of thought. A small example I face weekly as a service writer in the car business it that while we occasionally see bluetooth functionality issues with Apple products the majority of issues we see are Android. I'm not talking about Samsung vs Motorola either, You can take a Galaxy S7 from 3 different providers and they will all have different features and functionality with the same car.

Both Apple and Android share a common history.... they are both derived from Unix/Linux. Gotta admit though, the Apple marketing team are definitely better than the programmers who design the networking side of things LOL.

Side note and question: Why did Apple remove Smitty from their O/S? It was the most useful networking tool for Unix. I can't get files in or out of the ipad unless I download their crumby iTunes program for which I then set upon yet another update path, this time for my PC which runs everything else just fine with the exception of iTunes. Why can't I just plug in the iPad into a device and be able to transfer files like any other device on the planet?​

A coder can write an app for Apple products and not have to worry about how it will perform on AT&T or T-mobile, with Android that is a big concern. The vast majority of problems people have while using Android devices can easily be traced back to the device itself or conflicting apps that the user has installed and possibly configured in a way that can interfere with the operation of other apps.

If DJI programmers write something for Apple and it doesn't port well to Android (more than 50% of devices on the planet are Android) why do they continue on that path? Why not write specifically another app for Android? There is enough evidence on the pages of this forum to indicate a serious deficiency in their programming abilities for anything Android. As far as other apps interfering with the smooth operation of Go4, did I mention my tablet was dedicated and any non essential apps were disabled or uninstalled, not even a simple email client.

I now have an expensive iPad I didn't particularly need dedicated to my quads and a perfectly good Android tablet with a 16:9 format screen (Apple don't have a 16:9 format device) gathering dust and I figured since DJI programmers were focused on Apple (fanboys) that was the path I needed to take to avoid future hassles caused directly by those dreaded updates (which I will try and avoid/postpone from now on).

You have no doubt heard the adages:
"If it aint broke, don't fix it" or alternatively, "The devil you know".