Almost Arrested

[King.Taco]

I did something to this nature recently where I was invited to a Tech Summit event in Philadelphia that was held at Citizens Bank Filed where the Philadelphia Phillies play. The team was not in town and there were no active TFR's. I put my drone in my back pack and my camera to take some pictures of the field. When I arrived, security checked me in at the gate with metal detectors. They had me put my back pack on a table and they went through it and saw my camera and drone in my back pack.. I also told them I had a drone in my backpack and they let me through. about 30 minutes after lunch, I walked around to the area where it was going toward center field. It looked like it could be a beautiful shot of the field. So I took my drone out and and hovered it so I can get my camera settings correct due to the excess light and the ND filter I was using.

One guy rolls up in a mobile cart as the drone is hovering at 3 Feet and says "hey, are you okay?" I said yeah, I'm just going straight up and taking a few pictures and will land. He said okay and took off. Then a second younger guy came up who had a walkie talkie in his hand and asked what the drone was, I told him and he said "cool' and left. So that was three security checks I had and no one was stopping me.

Now keep in mind there was no game, no one was on the field and I had clearance from the FAA to fly at a max height of 200 Ft. I went up and took some video and some photos, total air time was 3 minutes. As I was going to land, the guy in the cart from earlier drives back and starts asking me questions. He wanted me ID and and Remote Pilots license. I gave it to him and he started asking me what I was doing, I told him again that I was there to take some photos of the field and that I don't want to cause problems for anyone, and as you can see I"ve landed. I even offered to delete the photos from the drone and he replied, no you don't have to do that but you're not supposed to be doing this unless it's been okay'ed by the park and it's for work.

To be fair, I was on their private property and should have asked in advanced. But since there security guys let me in and I was not hiding anything and I was honest, I thought it would be okay.

So the security guy form their command center said he was going to take my license and I'll just have to figure out how to get it back later.

So later on before the event started, I started asking people where do I got to get my license back from security. One lady asked me what did I do and she had this "uh oh" look. She called around on her walkie talkie and some other woman from security comes overt to me and said "I don't know what the hell you were thinking" Then she says "I told the client "NO DRONES".

I told her I'm not with the client, I'm here as a guest. She just got angrier, so I stopped talking and let her vent. She handed me my license back and I stayed out of her way. The entire time I was thinking the police was going to show up and haul me out but that never happened.

I don't know why big stadiums for professional sports teams just don't Geo-Fence off their stadiums so they don't have to worry about drones. That was another reason I thought it would be fine, but I guess I do it off of private property and go outside the side walk on public property. But the problem was I was only allowed 200 feet in that region because I was close to an airport so 200 feet outside I probably would not have gotten too much of anything good.

lesson learned.

Anyway, here is the only decent photo I got. and I wish I would have used an ND32 or ND64 filter. It was really bright that day.

Needless to say, I won't ever be doing this near a professional sports stadium ever again. (even though there was no game and no one was on the filed or no one was even near me and the stadium was empty. The people there for the Tech Summit was behind home plate and i was in the center filed stands. But yeah, I should have asked first.

 

[MiMo28]

Maybe I should have known better, but I was an Aussie traveling in Britain with my trusty M2P and wanted to get a shot of Stonehenge. I went out the preceding day to check it out and there were thousands of people everywhere. I wanted an early morning shot with long shadows so returned the next morning to the place I'd identified as a good launching spot, with a good view of any people or other problems.

I went at 5.30am and there was no-one around and no-one near the Henge so I launched the Mavic and did some shots. Now at no time did I fly over the stones, nor did I fly anywhere near people (there was no-one there except a couple of security guards). The weather was overcast so I had to forget about long shadows but about 10 minutes into the flight a car pulled up with a security guard inside. I made no attempt to hide what I was doing and he got out of his car and told me in no uncertain terms to get the drone away from over the stones.

I politely pointed out that at no time was I ever over, or near the stones and that I didn't fly over people. I also pointed out there were no signs prohibiting flights. He took exception to this and said the site was National Trust run and flying over National Trust land is illegal. At this point he threatened to arrest me. I hit the return to home button setting things in motion and apologised for my transgression. He waited until the Mavic returned then told me to leave the area immediately. I did as he said but I don't believe he had the authority to move me from a public road, especially as there were at least a dozen camper vans parked in the lane nearby. Anyway I did manage to get a few shots...

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He didn’t have any right to arrest you if you took off from a public path and regarding the site being a national trust place, they don’t own the air above it.
Great shot btw

 

[Myha]

Maybe I should have known better, but I was an Aussie traveling in Britain with my trusty M2P and wanted to get a shot of Stonehenge. I went out the preceding day to check it out and there were thousands of people everywhere. I wanted an early morning shot with long shadows so returned the next morning to the place I'd identified as a good launching spot, with a good view of any people or other problems.

I went at 5.30am and there was no-one around and no-one near the Henge so I launched the Mavic and did some shots. Now at no time did I fly over the stones, nor did I fly anywhere near people (there was no-one there except a couple of security guards). The weather was overcast so I had to forget about long shadows but about 10 minutes into the flight a car pulled up with a security guard inside. I made no attempt to hide what I was doing and he got out of his car and told me in no uncertain terms to get the drone away from over the stones.

I politely pointed out that at no time was I ever over, or near the stones and that I didn't fly over people. I also pointed out there were no signs prohibiting flights. He took exception to this and said the site was National Trust run and flying over National Trust land is illegal. At this point he threatened to arrest me. I hit the return to home button setting things in motion and apologised for my transgression. He waited until the Mavic returned then told me to leave the area immediately. I did as he said but I don't believe he had the authority to move me from a public road, especially as there were at least a dozen camper vans parked in the lane nearby. Anyway I did manage to get a few shots...

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Back in September 2014 I visited Stonehenge with a DJI Phantom 2 Quadcopter to video aerial views of Stonehenge.
I did ask permission to enter, but the security guy on the gate advised me that I would have to write to English Heritage. He was not prepared to let me in. I had just driven 70 miles from Bristol and I was not about to turn tail and go home!

So I went to an adjacent field that was public property and flew from there. The security people also said that they had no objections to me filming from outside of the area provided that I did not execute any direct overhead shots of the stones.
I advised them that I would abide by the CAA guidelines and remain at least 50 metres distant from the monument at all times and not fly over head. The video was carried out at 7:25AM on a Sunday to avoid the public.

At the time I knew that they had no powers of arrest unless I set foot on their land so this is why I proceeded - plus I'm English so I know enough about my rights.
It is difficult as a foreigner to know what the best course of action should be. Common sense is the best guide though.

It always amuses me as I would love to know whom they purchased this 3000 year old monument from in the first place?!

 

[Mountinmad]

I believe national trust and English heritage ban all flying on or over their sites... they even ban flying on big mountain ranges they own in north wales!

Question.... If you take off from a public road and respect the 150m flying rule where do you stand.... they can’t own the airspace can they??

 

[Steve_UK]

No there's no-one for miles, especially at that time of the morning. There were no tourists that I could see and maybe 2-3 security people on the ground. I was in the lane to the west of the stones and it's obvious they know where people go so he just drove straight to me (I made no attempt to hide what I was doing so I could plead supidity )

Firstly the “security” guys have no power of arrest (at least no more than a normal citizen). Secondly, although English Heritage and the National Trust like to think they can ban people from overflying their land, they cannot.

If you took off from outside their boundary and complied with the Drone Code you were good to fly without being hassled.

 

[BigBoozer]

Well, given the total absence of people in the site, this is a one-in-a-lifetime picture! Congrats...
I had exactly the same experience in Tiwanaku, Bolivia. Archeological site, no signs around to state that drones were forbidden, five minutes in the air and an army sergeant (not a private guard, THE Army itself) came running, puffing and panting to stop an illegal flyer. A polite conversation with a mostly decided guy (not menacing, but quite) after having landed the bird ended with me erasing the low-res images from the Ipad, and that solved it. In the hurry of the moment we forgot (...) to look at the SD card in the MP, though... The funny story is: it's not forbidden to fly a drone there, you simply have to pay a special ticket for doing it. But it was Sunday, and the proper office was obviously closed, with the site overloaded with tourists. Rules are rules...

 

[AntDX316]

From all my experience, it's better to not get detected so people don't ask questions. If you want to make new potential friends, flying drones is a good way of doing it as usually people always ask something about it. Giving cards away doesn't really do anything as they don't really call back. It's, in a way, an extension of a handshake that goes no where. Something like, getting each others names that you may never meet again.

 

[CelticShadows]

Question.... If you take off from a public road and respect the 150m flying rule where do you stand.... they can’t own the airspace can they??

It's also worth noting Stonehenge is right next to two sensitive military installations so you may actually get taken down if they report the drone activity and you have pissy squaddies. Not sure if Army/RAF still do low level flights over the Plains but that's always a concern but there's always one exercise or another in the area. It's hard to go anywhere without falling over something military.

 

[AntDX316]

I've also noticed how the world focuses upon things. Think about it, the stones don't really matter but because people care, it matters. Same with watching Soccer and Football etc. If people choose to spend their money and are satisfied, it's a win. Ultimately, people pay to be satisfied in some way. If we can extract how to make satisfaction at the core like DNA extraction, we would win too if we can claim some sort of ownership during the transistion.

 

[AntDX316]

The idea is to scope out where to take off from w/ satellite imaging and fly-in from there.

 

[gothicm3rcy]

Maybe I should have known better, but I was an Aussie traveling in Britain with my trusty M2P and wanted to get a shot of Stonehenge. I went out the preceding day to check it out and there were thousands of people everywhere. I wanted an early morning shot with long shadows so returned the next morning to the place I'd identified as a good launching spot, with a good view of any people or other problems.

I went at 5.30am and there was no-one around and no-one near the Henge so I launched the Mavic and did some shots. Now at no time did I fly over the stones, nor did I fly anywhere near people (there was no-one there except a couple of security guards). The weather was overcast so I had to forget about long shadows but about 10 minutes into the flight a car pulled up with a security guard inside. I made no attempt to hide what I was doing and he got out of his car and told me in no uncertain terms to get the drone away from over the stones.

I politely pointed out that at no time was I ever over, or near the stones and that I didn't fly over people. I also pointed out there were no signs prohibiting flights. He took exception to this and said the site was National Trust run and flying over National Trust land is illegal. At this point he threatened to arrest me. I hit the return to home button setting things in motion and apologised for my transgression. He waited until the Mavic returned then told me to leave the area immediately. I did as he said but I don't believe he had the authority to move me from a public road, especially as there were at least a dozen camper vans parked in the lane nearby. Anyway I did manage to get a few shots...

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Im from the uk... live in the US... We visited Stonehenge in 2002...we had to get a special pass to be able to actually touch the stones.... people generally have to stay behind a fence. The problem isnt the drone its the fact they dont allow anything near the stones at all without special permission.... you have to stay outside the fence area... which unfortunately isnt that close to the stones.

 

[gothicm3rcy]

I've also noticed how the world focuses upon things. Think about it, the stones don't really matter but because people care, it matters. Same with watching Soccer and Football etc. If people choose to spend their money and are satisfied, it's a win. Ultimately, people pay to be satisfied in some way. If we can extract how to make satisfaction at the core like DNA extraction, we would win too if we can claim some sort of ownership during the transistion.

theyre actually a national protected site. from around 2 to 3000 bc, and were built during the bronze age... so from an historical view they definately matter... in the 60s they suffered graffiti from hippies.... hence theyre fenced off and protected

 

[Mav_Flyah]

Maybe I should have known better, but I was an Aussie traveling in Britain with my trusty M2P and wanted to get a shot of Stonehenge. I went out the preceding day to check it out and there were thousands of people everywhere. I wanted an early morning shot with long shadows so returned the next morning to the place I'd identified as a good launching spot, with a good view of any people or other problems.

I went at 5.30am and there was no-one around and no-one near the Henge so I launched the Mavic and did some shots. Now at no time did I fly over the stones, nor did I fly anywhere near people (there was no-one there except a couple of security guards). The weather was overcast so I had to forget about long shadows but about 10 minutes into the flight a car pulled up with a security guard inside. I made no attempt to hide what I was doing and he got out of his car and told me in no uncertain terms to get the drone away from over the stones.

I politely pointed out that at no time was I ever over, or near the stones and that I didn't fly over people. I also pointed out there were no signs prohibiting flights. He took exception to this and said the site was National Trust run and flying over National Trust land is illegal. At this point he threatened to arrest me. I hit the return to home button setting things in motion and apologised for my transgression. He waited until the Mavic returned then told me to leave the area immediately. I did as he said but I don't believe he had the authority to move me from a public road, especially as there were at least a dozen camper vans parked in the lane nearby. Anyway I did manage to get a few shots...

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Great Shot and probably worth the risk lol

 

[Tesaro]

If he wasn’t a Copper, he couldn’t have arrested you. I’m not sure about National Trust property in regards to flying over it. I know what I would of told Him to do if he was rude.

 

[Cdcolt]

Great picture but being snarky to a Law Enforcement Office in a country you're not from could be one of the worst decisions you've made. It worked out well for you (might want to go buy a lottery ticket) but it's not something I would suggest doing as a habit.

Thanks for sharing your GREAT pic

It doesn’t sound like the OP was being “snarky”. It does sound like a security person with too many run ins with drone pilots though.

 

[Reverend Ron Gunn]

I am British and my understanding is that your security guard (who is not a Law Enforcement Officer with powers of arrest) was sort of correct. Both English Heritage, who administer the Stonehenge site and the National Trust, who have a large number of properties and bits of countryside in their care have similar policies. To paraphrase them: no taking off or landing on their property. No overflying (English Heritage - NT haven't implemented this yet. The overflying rule is a subject of discussion at the moment as it's not a given that English Heritage or NT have jurisdiction over the airspace above them, it's normally the preserve of the Civil Aviation Authority. The CAA publishes a Drone Code for non-commercial pilots to follow, Height to be below 400 feet above ground level, aircraft to be visible - Line of Sight - 50 metres distance from buildings. vehicles, vessels and people unless under control of the drone operator.

Now, if you have obtained your PfCO (Permission for Commercial Operations), equivalent in the UK to the American part 107 you can apply to English Heritage or the National Trust for permission to fly over their properties.

"To ensure the safety and security of English Heritage sites, any drone flying must take place when the site is closed to the public. All operators must hold the following:

• a current and valid CAA 'Permission for Aerial Work' (PFAW);
• evidence of valid insurance cover;
• a risk assessment for the proposed flight; and
• a method statement outlining what equipment will be used and a flight plan outlining where flying is proposed." - from the English Heritage website

The NT site is much the same.

And here comes the kicker:

Please note: for all projects for commercial and personal filming use, drone flying will be treated as a commercial hire and fees will apply as appropriate.

Here's a guy who has done it:

And his take on the legality of it:

"All done within CAA rules.... A late evening, 360 degree flight around the iconic Stonehenge, with some additional amazing shots of the enormous Avebury Stone Circle, West Kennet Avenue and Silbury Hill, the largest manmade mound in the world, estimated to have taken 500 men a full 15 years to construct, providing a direct line of sight to Stonehenge and Avebury. The CAA confirm that landowners cannot impose their own airspace regulations any more than you can impose a speed limit outside your own house. The CAA regulates airspace, no one else. This means the landowner can prohibit you taking off, operating and landing but cannot prohibit you flying over, anymore they could a paraglider or hit air balloon. That said, respecting English Heritage's wish, I waited until around closing time to ensure visitors weren't bothered in any way. Remember to always fly with the greatest consideration for others who won't be enjoying the amazing views you get! If you have a comment, be constructive and accurate. Cheers, Ian

His youtube channel is well worth subscribing to!

 

[Ridgeback]

Maybe I should have known better, but I was an Aussie traveling in Britain with my trusty M2P and wanted to get a shot of Stonehenge. I went out the preceding day to check it out and there were thousands of people everywhere. I wanted an early morning shot with long shadows so returned the next morning to the place I'd identified as a good launching spot, with a good view of any people or other problems.

I went at 5.30am and there was no-one around and no-one near the Henge so I launched the Mavic and did some shots. Now at no time did I fly over the stones, nor did I fly anywhere near people (there was no-one there except a couple of security guards). The weather was overcast so I had to forget about long shadows but about 10 minutes into the flight a car pulled up with a security guard inside. I made no attempt to hide what I was doing and he got out of his car and told me in no uncertain terms to get the drone away from over the stones.

I politely pointed out that at no time was I ever over, or near the stones and that I didn't fly over people. I also pointed out there were no signs prohibiting flights. He took exception to this and said the site was National Trust run and flying over National Trust land is illegal. At this point he threatened to arrest me. I hit the return to home button setting things in motion and apologised for my transgression. He waited until the Mavic returned then told me to leave the area immediately. I did as he said but I don't believe he had the authority to move me from a public road, especially as there were at least a dozen camper vans parked in the lane nearby. Anyway I did manage to get a few shots...

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Great picture but being snarky to a Law Enforcement Office in a country you're not from could be one of the worst decisions you've made. It worked out well for you (might want to go buy a lottery ticket) but it's not something I would suggest doing as a habit.

Thanks for sharing your GREAT pic

I believe the security guard has absolutely no power of arrest in this matter which is a civil matter , if you have launched off public land and adhered to the Drone Code I can not see any wrongdoing !
If he threatened to arrest you he may have committed an offence merely by threatening you with arrest ,did he identify himself to you ?
Great view by the way

 

[gnirtS]

In a site as well-known and precious as Stonehenge, do you really want to be the guy associated with the flying robot in the sky, regardless of legality?

Put another way, when you ask "what could go wrong" there are some very bad potential outcomes indeed. To me, the risk to yourself and to the site seems absolutely not worth it.

You mean at 5.30 in the morning where there are absolutely no people around in an area thats just rural farmland and fields? Thats probably one of the safest places you COULD fly!

 

[Ophidia Snaketongue]

As a Brit, I'm really sorry this happened to you. I am willing to bet that if you had been British, he'd not have been nearly as nouty with you. Unfortunately, the drone laws in this country do really strangle our ability to fly drones legally. It's ironic really- people worry that drones might be used to spy on them while living in the country with the largest number of cctv cameras per capita of any country...

 

[gnirtS]

. The overflying rule is a subject of discussion at the moment as it's not a given that English Heritage or NT have jurisdiction over the airspace above them, it's normally the preserve of the Civil Aviation Authority.

ITs not discussion at all as confirmed by the CAA. Provided its not at an altitude to "interfere with legitimate use" overflights are fine and that law applies to all property not just NT/EH.
Neither EH or NT have any byelaws for overflight.
The only people claiming its still a subject of dicussion are NT and EH - presumably because they know they cant prevent it and have no mechanism to prevent it. They'd like to ban it but cant.