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Annoying neighbors.

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Specifically why can you not offer free photographs?
On the other hand if 107 required then just get your certification.
Because doing it "For someone else" is clearly outside of The Recreational Exemption from Part 107 (~44809). You can not RECREATE for Someone Else in any way. If you're "doing it for someone" you're not Recreational and you DEFAULT to all of Part 107.
 
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New recreational flyer. Here are my neighbors, husband and wife, taking "video evidence" of my second ever flight. These people have 5 kids, 3 Ram Cummins diesels all with modded exhausts and rev them daily. (Mod Removed Language) they just installed a train horn on one of them 2 weeks ago that they tested all day long.

But my 10 minute drone flight gone up to 150 ft... totally unacceptable and we're calling the cops. LOL

View attachment 145955
Sorry you got jerks for neighbors. Even though I don't know the whole story, I will say there is an easy way to avoid such an incident...don't fly over them as shown in your image. I mean I understand that you may not be breaking any FAA laws but obviously they detected you and felt like they were being spied on. This in part is what spurs the idea that RID is needed.

I usually assess the surroundings and flight issues prior to launching as part of my pre-flight. One on the check list is the reaction to my drone around people. I've told my neighbors directly next to me that I have a drone, what it looks like, and that they might even see it at night. At least if they know, they won't be surprised. And if the cops do show up, at least you can tell them you've already informed your neighbor about your drone flights. But you can't notify them all so I generally avoid long distance flights over housing beyond my immediate neighbors.

And what other are saying about offering a few pics of their property could have completely changed the whole situation. Hopefully your local PD handled the situation with some finesse.
 
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....

And what other are saying about offering a few pics of their property could have completely changed the whole situation. Hopefully your local PD handled the situation with some finesse.
Unless they have some illicit activity going on in the back yard that they don't want anyone to know about. Not all concerns about "spying" are directly related to personal privacy concerns.

I have a neighbor with whom I was on great terms up until about a year ago. I'd fly my drone over to his house and if I saw him out in the yard, I'd actually descend a bit and waggle the drone around to say hi. Since then though we're not on such great terms, since he was trying to get away with some major land use things on his property without permits. I'd love to fly over and get an aerial view to see if he's still trying to build, but don't really need to be accused of spying....
 
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Thank you all that quoted my post and replied as well as welcomed me to the forum. Lots of great suggestions and/or funny comments from you all.

That neighbor of mine is kind of the crazy neighbor. I'm not sure they really get along with anyone, I know I have tried. The image is actually a zoomed in screenshot from the video that was running as I was coming back to land, it caught them as I was coming down into my backyard. I flew over their house to get to mine but did not hover over them.

I am seeing as I browse these forums and look around at other internet resources that flying over a person, a vehicle, or a road is against the rules. This is confusing to me, as are some other UAS rules, since it is almost impossible to never fly over a person or a vehicle. To me that is not practically achievable. I understand not hovering or sustained flight over a large gathering or directly over a road. Just a couple days ago I was doing some flying over a wooded area on private land with the camera facing down, got about half way into the area and BOOM I am over a 3 homeless people (I assume based on how they looked) who had setup some kind of camp.

I stumbled across this video last week which made things clearer for me. After watching it (and you have to watch the whole darn thing as the FAA guy gives examples instead of yes or no answers the whole way through) my understanding is that traversing or transitioning over a person or a roadway when flying point to point is OK to do, rec or 107. Certainly curious what you all think and I'm sure there are some diverse opinions.

At this point I am starting to wonder if the FAA leaves rules vague to allow themselves plenty of room for selective enforcement or maybe have no idea how to handle citizen drone pilots.
 
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Unless they have some illicit activity going on in the back yard that they don't want anyone to know about. Not all concerns about "spying" are directly related to personal privacy concerns.

I have a neighbor with whom I was on great terms up until about a year ago. I'd fly my drone over to his house and if I saw him out in the yard, I'd actually descend a bit and waggle the drone around to say hi. Since then though we're not on such great terms, since he was trying to get away with some major land use things on his property without permits. I'd love to fly over and get an aerial view to see if he's still trying to build, but don't really need to be accused of spying....
Yes, I agree. Some folks can be worried about a person with a drone scoping out their property for several reasons... from pot grows to illegal alcohol stills and even casing a property for theft. Then you got those who are worried about drones for other personal reasons. The point is common sense can be worth considering to reduce your odds of an encounter even though there is always a chance of running into that nut-type person.
Not positive, but I'd venture to say most drone complaints revolve around the idea of spying even though those complaining probably don't have a clue what can or can't be seen through a specific drone camera.
 
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Why not offer to sell your drone and buy a Harley Davidson motorcycle so you can ride up and down the street in front of his house.
That's what my son kind of did. He is a mild mannered guy with a lovely wife and young family including a new baby daughter. He is a big sook who has bought a house and works hard for his family. His problematic days are well behind him. He bought himself a Harley as a personal present for getting qualified and finding a good job with a good boss. He doesnt ride up and down the street but now his neighbours think he is trying to join a bikie gang and are gossiping about it!!!. There are people out there who are so paranoid, they look for anything to worry about.

They are the chicken littles for whom the sky is really falling in.
 
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At this point I am starting to wonder if the FAA leaves rules vague to allow themselves plenty of room for selective enforcement or maybe have no idea how to handle citizen drone pilots.
We are simply responsible for our actions. IMO, the FAA is tasked with incorporating drones safely into the NAS for both business, and recreational purposes plus to mandate reasonable safety measures for the public. I'm sure you know it's not their job to handle private disputes. It doesn't seem like you did anything wrong, but as I posted, disputes like that are why I try to avoid flying in places like that, especially if I might expect police involvement due to my flight. There was a thread on whether it's best to operate out in the open or conceal yourself. My answer was, I don't conceal myself and stand right next to my old beat up white cargo van while flying my drone.
 
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I am seeing as I browse these forums and look around at other internet resources that flying over a person, a vehicle, or a road is against the rules. This is confusing to me, as are some other UAS rules, since it is almost impossible to never fly over a person or a vehicle.
Actually you can under 3 of the 4 categories but its complicated (prop guards, low kinetic energy impact, etc.). Under those categories (1, 2 and 3) you can transition over people and cars but until RID is initiated next year, no sustained flight over them. Also if you have a ka-zillion dollars you can install a parachute on your bird and get a nearly impossible waiver.
 
You can’t offer them free aerial photographs if you don’t have a part 107
Specifically why can you not offer free photographs?

Not sure if it was said in jest (?).
After all, he didn't take the aerial photo to give to them, but to record their 'interest' in his flight.

Because doing it "For someone else" is clearly outside of The Recreational Exemption from Part 107 (~44809). You can not RECREATE for Someone Else in any way. If you're "doing it for someone" you're not Recreational and you DEFAULT to all of Part 107.

If AK wasn't joking, then isn't that rule just in relation to "doing it" to further a commercial enterprise ?
Photos taken for gain of a commercial enterprise for furthering a business in any way ?

Ie. if it was a business and you took some photos for them to use to promote their services etc, even gifting those to them, that would certainly apply as a part 107 use.

Not sure if I've ever read it could apply to something as simple as a happy snap that served no $ or tangible gain.

Not relative to me, but good to clarify, as that is what I've read into the forum posts regarding part 107 requirements.
 
Is that dual tires on the rear of the rightmost truck? What good are those for such a light vehicle?

Usually dual tyres or axles is to spread heavy loads onto tyres to keep within tyre load limits.
Not usual for vehicles like that, possibly for tow truck type ops, 3rd wheelers, etc.
Usually trailer loads have little towball weight, and spread / balanced fine on the trailer wheels.

That thing looks jacked up high though, wouldn't be taking corners all that nicely.

Whoops, tyres = tires for a huge number of readers :)
 
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Not sure if it was said in jest (?).
After all, he didn't take the aerial photo to give to them, but to record their 'interest' in his flight.



If AK wasn't joking, then isn't that rule just in relation to "doing it" to further a commercial enterprise ?
Photos taken for gain of a commercial enterprise for furthering a business in any way ?

Ie. if it was a business and you took some photos for them to use to promote their services etc, even gifting those to them, that would certainly apply as a part 107 use.

Not sure if I've ever read it could apply to something as simple as a happy snap that served no $ or tangible gain.

Not relative to me, but good to clarify, as that is what I've read into the forum posts regarding part 107 requirements.
You need to keep in mind that recreational flight is an exemption to the 107 rules. Monetary gain isn't even considered. As Big Al already pointed out "You can't recreate for someone else!" Anything you do for someone else is not recreational. The slippery slope is that if you already have a picture that you took when you were flying for recreational purposes, and offer to give it to him... completely legal as the intent of the flight was recreational. The subsequent transfer of the picture had nothing to do with the flight in the past. You are only illegal if you fly to get the picture to give to your neighbor.
 
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Not sure if it was said in jest (?).
After all, he didn't take the aerial photo to give to them, but to record their 'interest' in his flight.



If AK wasn't joking, then isn't that rule just in relation to "doing it" to further a commercial enterprise ?
Photos taken for gain of a commercial enterprise for furthering a business in any way ?

Ie. if it was a business and you took some photos for them to use to promote their services etc, even gifting those to them, that would certainly apply as a part 107 use.

Not sure if I've ever read it could apply to something as simple as a happy snap that served no $ or tangible gain.

Not relative to me, but good to clarify, as that is what I've read into the forum posts regarding part 107 requirements.

It doesn't matter if it's "Commercial" or not. It's the INTENT of the flight and you can't INTEND to fly to do something for someone else and still claim to fly under the FAA ~44809. Any aspect of the flight that is not 100% for YOUR pleasure bursts the protective bubble provided by ~44809.

To be honest (and this has come up in many meetings over the last couple of years), the FAA did not do themselves a service by referring to Part 107/RPIC as even remotely relating to Commercial Ops. That mere term has created so much confusion since day one! It's so much more than a Commercial Drone License. . .

It's important to realize that Commerce/Payment etc is but one (of many) ways to pop the Protective Bubble of ~44809. Even flying for your Church/Buddy/Employer even with no compensation completely voids your ~44809.

To put it in most basic terms..... in order to enjoy the protection of ~44809 you must fly TOTALLY within the simple requirements set forth in it. Below is a link to it from the FAA website and I added COLOR for emphasis.


What are the Rules for Recreational Flyers?​

The Exception for Limited Operation of Unmanned Aircraft (USC 44809) is the law that describes how, when, and where you can fly drones for recreational purposes. Following these rules will keep people, your drone and our airspace safe:

  1. Fly only for recreational purposes (enjoyment).
  2. Follow the safety guidelines of an FAA-recognized Community Based Organization (CBO).
    Note: We have not yet begun officially recognizing CBOs. Recreational flyers are directed to follow the safety guidelines of existing aeromodelling organizations or use the FAA provided safety guidelines per Advisory Circular 91-57B.
  3. Keep your drone within the visual line of sight or use a visual observer who is co-located (physically next to) and in direct communication with you.
  4. Give way to and do not interfere with manned aircraft.
  5. Fly at or below 400' in controlled airspace (Class B, C, D, and E) only with prior authorization by using LAANC or DroneZone.
  6. Fly at or below 400 feet in Class G (uncontrolled) airspace.
    Note: Flying drones in certain airspace is not allowed. Classes of airspace and flying restrictions can be found on our B4UFLY app or the UAS Facility Maps webpage.
  7. Take The Recreational UAS Safety Test (TRUST) and carry proof of test passage.
  8. Have a current registration, mark (PDF) your drones on the outside with the registration number, and carry proof of registration with you.
  9. Do not operate your drone in a dangerous manner. For example:
    1. Do not interfere with emergency response or law enforcement activities.
    2. Do not fly under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

If you do not stay within the above rules for the entire flight you are, by default, held accountable for ALL of Part 107 Regulations even if you've not taken the test or anything. Once you pierce the protective bubble it's over and gone and you're now fully exposed to Part 107 with no grey area.


I hope that clears it up without creating more confusion.
 
Not sure if it was said in jest (?).
After all, he didn't take the aerial photo to give to them, but to record their 'interest' in his flight.



If AK wasn't joking, then isn't that rule just in relation to "doing it" to further a commercial enterprise ?
Photos taken for gain of a commercial enterprise for furthering a business in any way ?

Ie. if it was a business and you took some photos for them to use to promote their services etc, even gifting those to them, that would certainly apply as a part 107 use.

Not sure if I've ever read it could apply to something as simple as a happy snap that served no $ or tangible gain.

Not relative to me, but good to clarify, as that is what I've read into the forum posts regarding part 107 requirements.
I wasn't joking. The example that is often given is you can fly over your house but you can't fly (without 107) over your roof to check it out. The FAA designation of non-107 is simply that your intent must be purely for fun. You can't fly with the intent of taking a photo of your friend's house in order to make things better between you. I know that sounds odd but I'm quite confident it is correct. You could fly just for fun and then as an after thought make a print of a picture you took. I know this is splitting hairs but those are the kind of things these odd rules do. I'm sure you would not get in trouble in any way if you broke this rule and even if you were reported to the FAA for some very odd reason they would just talk with you about it but strictly in terms of the letter of the regulation, you can only fly without a 107 when your flight is simply for fun. Period. Of course you can take picture and do video and all that but you can't expressly go up with some goal in mind like doing any job, paid or unpaid. I'll be interested to be corrected on this but that's my take on the situation. Money has nothing to do with the recreational status. It is simply defined as flying with the INTENT of just having fun. You can fly for fun, photograph an amazing scene and then be offered big money and take it. No problem. Your intent was just fun. But you can't fly with the intent of checking your roof. How interesting.
 
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That's what my son kind of did. He is a mild mannered guy with a lovely wife and young family including a new baby daughter. He is a big sook who has bought a house and works hard for his family. His problematic days are well behind him. He bought himself a Harley as a personal present for getting qualified and finding a good job with a good boss. He doesnt ride up and down the street but now his neighbours think he is trying to join a bikie gang and are gossiping about it!!!. There are people out there who are so paranoid, they look for anything to worry about.

They are the chicken littles for whom the sky is really falling in.
All I can say to that is “birds of a feather flock together”. Before long he will make more Harley owner friends to ride with and give the jerks something else to gossip about.

I live by “if they are talkin about me at least they aren’t talkin about someone else” cuz I don’t give a hoot what those sorts have to say.

Mike
 
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I find it hard to believe to hear it at 200' let alone see a mini .

Mini 2 is quite visible and audible at 200 feet AGL. The sound of a drone is distinctive and I've had several occasions where people were curious enough about it to try and figure out what it was. In every case, a polite explanation and offering them a look at the tablet was all that was required to put them at ease.

I fly at my SO/VO's (significant other visual observer) house often and I make it a point to stay over her house or the adjacent woods. There's nothing in the neighborhood that I have any interest in looking at and I understand that many people would be uncomfortable with an unknown drone over their house.

A little common sense and a little common courtesy prevent or resolve almost all problems, with no loss of my "freedoms."
 
The slippery slope is that if you already have a picture that you took when you were flying for recreational purposes, and offer to give it to him... completely legal as the intent of the flight was recreational. The subsequent transfer of the picture had nothing to do with the flight in the past. You are only illegal if you fly to get the picture to give to your neighbor.

Yes, the reality is that unless one was rewarded (in a recordable way) for any sort of flight action at any time, then a 'later' aspect of a photo or video gifting is really always going to be open to interpretation.

Kind of makes that side of the rule unenforceable in a lot of recreational / gifting situations.

Then it becomes a matter of pilot ethics, if one is willing to bend rules on such things . . . gifting photos / footage, flying that bit too far BVLOS, over 'things' that are probably best not to 'just in case', and so on.

The example that is often given is you can fly over your house but you can't fly (without 107) over your roof to check it out.

But you can't fly with the intent of checking your roof. How interesting.

Yes quite odd that you can't check your own roof, in safety and faster via a drone flight, rather than getting up a ladder and walking it, risking damage to tiles etc.

As my example above, if you flew that for fun, then noticed some ridge capping loose, someone somehow found out and reported you to FAA . . . it gets a bit far fetched for sure . . . but would the FAA be at all interested ?
A good chance of course not, but if they did, who's to say you just didn't fly for fun and see that later, and who really cares ?

No flight of manned aircraft was put at risk, no risk to pedestrians, property (outside normal flight risk), etc.
These are the supposed reasons for drone laws and rules.

It's an interpretation on the part 107 rule perhaps, but does anyone really think that will ever be enacted at any future time ?
It beggars belief that rules that may never be used, could ever be applied fairly or with certainty, are even contemplated, over bureaucratised rule making at its finest.

That roof inspection analogy is, I feel, a step up from taking an extended family snap for yourself at a gathering, and later sharing to social media online (where anyone can save it), or sharing with a far away relation by email.
Do the FAA really expect some rec pilot wanting a family gathering photo from a low angle air shot to contact a part 107 pilot and engage their services ?

Fly only for recreational purposes (enjoyment).

Isn't private photography / videography from the air usually undertaken for enjoyment ?
It's shared daily here as one might share a photo with another person in the shot, shared all over social media, just not sure that first clause could be reasonably applied for a simple family / friends photo, it just seems beyond the spirit of the rule.
I'm not sure you'd ever see this sort of enforcement in the US by the FAA, or CAA in the UK or NZ, or CASA here.

One can obviously see why and how this can easily be applied for commercial / business gain, be it at a cost / reward in any form, or even gifted . . . but there is still that clause for that even about intent at time of filming, which isn't mentioned at all in the rules of part 107, just that is deemed important as it dictates why the flight was undertaken.

It's all way off track to the post #50 anyway of course, as that photo wasn't taken to give to the neighbour.
 
Yes quite odd that you can't check your own roof, in safety and faster via a drone flight, rather than getting up a ladder and walking it, risking damage to tiles etc.

As my example above, if you flew that for fun, then noticed some ridge capping loose, someone somehow found out and reported you to FAA . . . it gets a bit far fetched for sure . . . but would the FAA be at all interested ?
A good chance of course not, but if they did, who's to say you just didn't fly for fun and see that later, and who really cares ?

I don't buy into the "you can't take a pic of your own roof" philosophy which is why you've never seen me state that. Taking pics of my roof could easily be put into the "Recreational" realm and I think easily proven in a court.

Also, taking a family photo of YOUR family is easily under the "Recreational" realm but going over to your neighbor's, pastor's, or someone else's party to take pictures of THEIR family would not pass the litmus test in any way.

And honestly, in about 95% of every scenario you can come up with, unless there is an incident, near-miss, or some type of report it's a moot point. The FAA isn't going to come knocking on your door for these things unless it is brought to their attention for some reason.

Keep in mind that the FAA has carefully crafted these rules to leave room (a LOT in some instances) for interpretation by the inspector and higher up the line. The Rule Brush is very wide and paints a wide swath trying to cover the vast majority of actions etc but they aren't perfect and there are times when they don't exactly FIT the situation. In those seemingly Grey Area the inspector or FAA Rep can make the determination and if needed further actions can be taken.

It's worth noting, and HIGHLIGHTING, that in the US if a Recreational Operator doesn't fly 100% within every single aspect of ~44809, Exception for limited recreational operations of unmanned aircraft , they are legally liable for every aspect of Part 107. It's worth knowing what the rules are and operating well within them because the moment you pierce that protective bubble it's gone and you're fully exposed to the full hand of the FAA like it or not.
 
It's worth noting, and HIGHLIGHTING, that in the US if a Recreational Operator doesn't fly 100% within every single aspect of ~44809, Exception for limited recreational operations of unmanned aircraft , they are legally liable for every aspect of Part 107. It's worth knowing what the rules are and operating well within them because the moment you pierce that protective bubble it's gone and you're fully exposed to the full hand of the FAA like it or not.

It seems as if some people think that there are two sets of rules: recreational and Part 107.

@BigAl07, is it correct to simplify things for those folks this way?

Part 107 applies all drone operations, whether you have a 107 certificate or not. 44809 provides an exception from Part107 for recreational operations only if all the requirements are met.
 

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