Canadian police drone hits airplane
- Thread starter Drone_Pilot
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With such tough drone laws in Canada, you would think the “professionals” would know to avoid the approach/takeoff areas of an airport and at the very least see & avoid a landing airplane!
Jagerbomb52
Well-Known Member
I’m sure they’ll investigate themselves and find they’ve done nothing wrong and charge the plane owner for destroying police property. 
Oh my my?I’m sure they’ll investigate themselves and find they’ve done nothing wrong and charge the plane owner for destroying police property.
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Trying to wrap my head around why a Police drone would be at 500 ft above the landing strip.
At this point not everything makes sense . Even if he wanted a huge area to fly and practice with his drone why go up to 500 ft , and how do you not see a plane coming at 500 ft. So many things dont add up for me on this article.
Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly in the Rain.
At this point not everything makes sense . Even if he wanted a huge area to fly and practice with his drone why go up to 500 ft , and how do you not see a plane coming at 500 ft. So many things dont add up for me on this article.
Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly in the Rain.
I live in York Region (where this happened). There are lots of airports and heliports. Buttonville is much busier than you'd think (used to drive past it twice a day).
Some of the police departments understand the regulations — I helped the Toronto police film an event that their own pilot said would be difficult to get clearance for. (I was flying a Tello so it was safe and legal, but the police drone would have required an SFOC, and time was short.)
YRP tends to be more cavalier about rules and guidelines than TPS.
1 nautical mile NW of the airport is pretty close. The YRP drone is about 2½ kg, and pretty expensive:
Two licensed officers, one observing the drone and the other using a tablet and stylus pen to control the flight path, operated the apparatus that’s worth $125,000, including the cameras.
It weighs 2.4 kilograms, is capable of vertical take offs and landings and can capture high-resolution images during the day or night.
York Regional Police second municipal force in Ontario to operate aerial drone
Device to survey crash scenes, search for missing persons, police say
www.yorkregion.com
Jagerbomb52
Well-Known Member
This was posted on RPAS Operators Facebook group. Have no idea who the guy is but he posted this.
"I have it in good authority that the police service as a whole will have a permanent type of sfoc that allows them to fly pretty much anytime anywhere (with common sense of course) without Navcan approval. This is typically for an emergency where asking for authorization isn’t practical for public safety purposes.
They need the same licensing as the rest of us and pass the same test you all have. This I assure you will be addressed and dealt with properly."
"I have it in good authority that the police service as a whole will have a permanent type of sfoc that allows them to fly pretty much anytime anywhere (with common sense of course) without Navcan approval. This is typically for an emergency where asking for authorization isn’t practical for public safety purposes.
They need the same licensing as the rest of us and pass the same test you all have. This I assure you will be addressed and dealt with properly."
Scroll down to record #3:
Occurrence Location:
1NM NW TORONTO / BUTTONVILLE MUNICIPAL ON (CYKZ)
Aircraft Event Information
- Controlled airspace - unauthorized entry
- Collision midair
Date Entered:
2021-08-18
Narrative:
At 1NM Northwest (NW) of Toronto/Buttonville, ON (CYKZ), a Canadian Flyers International Inc. Cessna 172N (C-GKWL) on a flight to Toronto/Buttonville, ON (CYKZ) was struck by a remotely piloted aircraft system (RPAS) while on final approach into CYKZ. The RPAS was part of a York Police Services operation in the area of Richmond Hill. No reporting of injuries or extent of the damage to the aircraft. NAV CANADA had not been advised of the RPAS operation.
Occurrence Summary
Date Entered:
2021-08-19
Narrative:
UPDATE: Aviation Incident Report #17258: The instructor for a Canadian Flyers International Inc. Cessna 172N (C-GKWL) reported that they had just turned from base leg to final for Runway 15 at Toronto/Buttonville, ON (CYKZ) and were established and stable at 1100 ASL, or about 500 AGL, when they felt a jolt that pushed them back on their seat. They thought they had hit a large bird. They proceeded to land. There was no change in configuration or power since they were about to land. When exiting the aircraft, they were shocked to see a major dent on the left underside of the engine cowling. The airbox was also bent. A few hours later, a police detective confirmed a York Regional Police drone had struck their aircraft. The aircraft suffered major damage, including a propeller strike.
The drone wasn't above the runway, it was about 1.8 km away, which is in the neighbourhood of Major Mackenzie and Leslie (if you check a map).
That's definitely in the control zone for Buttonville, plus within the three nautical mile zone of an airport, so requiring authorization:
- Seek permission from air traffic control (NAV CANADA or the Department of National Defence) to fly in controlled airspace (request an RPAS Flight Authorization from NAV CANADA)
They're supposed to have a spotter as well as the pilot. They were on the flight path for one of the busiest airports in Ontario, and they didn't phone ATC? Even my simple civilian logging app has the phone numbers of all local airport ATCs at your fingertips:
Drone Pilot Canada
dronepilotcanada.com
I'm only certified for basic operations, so maybe I missed the part in the regulations about when you can not notify ATC of an incursion — and when you can not report a collision.
Jagerbomb52
Well-Known Member
Well let the people in charge (Nav Canada sort it out.) any speculation on our part is pointless. The full report will come out. I have seen some taking months, even years to get posted.They're supposed to have a spotter as well as the pilot. They were on the flight path for one of the busiest airports in Ontario, and they didn't phone ATC? Even my simple civilian logging app has the phone numbers of all local airport ATCs at your fingertips:
Drone Pilot Canada
I'm only certified for basic operations, so maybe I missed the part in the regulations about when you can not notify ATC of an incursion — and when you can not report a collision.
dirkclod
Well-Known Member
In post #8 the
to to give way to any manned aircraft but we don’t know why the drone was there nor where we there. Hopefully in time it will all be made
available but untill then it looks like just a mess. Thankfully no one was injured.
Ok did the drone run into the plane Or was it in a hover and the plane run into it. We can speculate all we want and we are suppose
to to give way to any manned aircraft but we don’t know why the drone was there nor where we there. Hopefully in time it will all be made
available but untill then it looks like just a mess. Thankfully no one was injured.
Transportation Safety Board is running the investigation, not Nav Canada.
Report here with a picture of the damaged Cessna, as well as a quote from the one of the owners:
York police drone collides with plane approaching Buttonville Airport, TSB investigating
The Transportation Safety Board is investigating after a York regional police drone collided with an airplane approaching Buttonville Airport in Markham last week. Police confirmed to CityNews they had deployed a Remote Piloted Vehicle (RPV), known more commonly as a drone, as part of an...
toronto.citynews.ca
York police say they are currently waiting on the TSB’s investigation for more details.
Dario Matrundola, who is one of the owners of the flight school Canadian Flyers, said had the drone struck a few inches further away, both occupants could’ve been killed.
“It would have been a tragedy, it would’ve been loss of life or injuries for sure. The pilots are very lucky they were able to land the plane and avoid injuries,” said Matrundola.
Matrundola was at the airport when the plane landed and said they immediately noticed significant damage on the aircraft. He said the pilots were given no indication there was a drone in the area at the time of the midair collision.
“We don’t really get air restrictions for drones because the drones, legally, are not allowed in the certain vicinity of an airport, unless it came directly from the Ministry for approval so no one would’ve been expecting that.”
Matrundola says he was very surprised to find out the drone had been operated by York police.
“I found it was just a complete disregard for safety. I’m surprised that could happen from an establishment that is supposed to be setting the example.”
He said it will likely take several months for the plane’s extensive damage to be repaired, which he says will have a large impact on his business.
Is the permanent SFOC a new thing?
Two years ago the Toronto Police Service asked for civilian help filming an event because getting approval for their drone (close to Pearson) was complicated and time-consuming.
I suppose the permanent SFOC might be limited to certain reasons, or it might have been issued more recently.
Jagerbomb52
Well-Known Member
Mandate
The TSB's mandate—as described in the Act that governs its work—is to advance safety in air, marine, pipeline, and rail transportation by
conducting independent investigations, including public enquiries when necessary, into selected transportation occurrences, in order to make findings regarding their causes and contributing factors;
identifying safety deficiencies, as evidenced by transportation occurrences;
making recommendations designed to eliminate or reduce such safety deficiencies;
reporting publicly on our investigations and findings in relation thereto.
While it is not the function of the Board to assign fault or determine civil or criminal liability, the Board reports fully on the causes and contributing factors of an occurrence, even in cases where fault or liability might be inferred from the Board's findings. Findings of the Board are not binding on the parties to any legal, disciplinary, or other proceedings.
To instill public confidence in the TSB, it is essential that the agency be free of any conflict of interest when investigating accidents, identifying safety deficiencies, and making recommendations. That is why the TSB is independent and separate from other government departments. It currently reports to Parliament through the President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada.
The TSB's mandate is distinct from those of other organizations such as Transport Canada, the Canadian Energy Regulator, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, the Canadian Coast Guard, and the Department of National Defense, all of which have a role in the transportation sector.
Transport Canada is concerned with developing and administering policies, regulations, and services for transportation systems in Canada with respect to federally regulated air, marine, and rail modes of transportation.
The Canadian Energy Regulator is responsible for regulating pipelines under federal jurisdiction.
As an independent federal agency, the TSB is not associated with any of these organizations. It does, however, cooperate with them when conducting investigations and making safety recommendations.
When the TSB investigates an accident, no federal department except the Department of National Defense and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police may investigate for the purpose of making findings as to the causes and contributing factors of the accident.
Transport Canada and the Canadian Energy Regulator may investigate for any other purpose, such as regulatory infractions.
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Here's a link to the Google satellite view of Buttonville airport. Zoom in on the red marker and you can see a Cessna on approach to runway 15, about 1km from the threshold.
The police DJI Matrice drone collided with a Cessna at about 500' AGL shortly after the plane turned from Base leg onto Final. The distance has been quoted as being as much 3NM or just 1NM.
In any case, 500' AGL in a direct line with the runway approach seems pretty stupid, eh?
goo.gl/maps/4HvYcYguk86DURHR7
The police DJI Matrice drone collided with a Cessna at about 500' AGL shortly after the plane turned from Base leg onto Final. The distance has been quoted as being as much 3NM or just 1NM.
In any case, 500' AGL in a direct line with the runway approach seems pretty stupid, eh?
goo.gl/maps/4HvYcYguk86DURHR7
Jagerbomb52
Well-Known Member
Yup someone is going to get their you know what slapped for it. Really makes you wonder who was flying the thing.
Jagerbomb52
Well-Known Member
Here is the damage to the airplane. Now that must have been a large drone to do that much damage I would think.
The failure to notify NavCan of the flight, either before it began or immediately after, when that close to the field, appears to be negligent, however all the facts are not known at this point. The time-lapse between the incident and the Police Dept. notifying the NavCan folks of their involvement also suggest an actionable violation...again, an investigation will clarify the situation. Speculation at this point does little other than insert bias into the situation, to no good end.
The failure to notify NavCan of the flight, either before it began or immediately after, when that close to the field, appears to be negligent, however all the facts are not known at this point. The time-lapse between the incident and the Police Dept. notifying the NavCan folks of their involvement also suggest an actionable violation...again, an investigation will clarify the situation. Speculation at this point does little other than insert bias into the situation, to no good end.
WoW (Mod Removed Language)of a hit Nice size drone to do some much damage.
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As much as the story is a good read, all of the comments are enlightening. It is pounded into us here on the forum that it is the pilot's prime responsibility to avoid manned aircraft in all circumstances. There is no excuse for ever hitting a manned aircraft. Yet, maybe because it is the police involved, some are staying lets not place blame until the investigation is done. If this was a civilian everyone would have already hung them.
Jagerbomb52
Well-Known Member
Yes you are correct but we don't know if this was a fly away so we have to wait for the investigation report.
I suspect someone missed a few checks on their check list and could be in big trouble but we will not know this until the report is finished.
The question will most certainly go to, who trained this pilot and who signed off on their flight review.
What procedures were in place for the pilot to prevent these types of incidents?
What SOPS did the PIC follow, if any?
What checklist did the pilot have or use?
Do they employ any cruise checks (VLOS 101) encompassing sector scans.
If any case great case study for the TSB.
I know for the few schools I am aware of; that train emergency services & advise them of
the repercussions. They scare the living daylights of them.
Remember it is not necessarily the agencies fault but the pilot in command. He has the ultimate say on where he wants to put his aircraft (ie putting people and aircraft lives at risk). It is not the agency’s fault human factors plays a major role in the majority of air to air collisions.
Further to this the notion that emergency service agencies are exempt is a false statement. They should at best have IC call Nav Canada 1866-WX-BRIEF or the area control shift manager takes less then a minute.
Thus it is a good example to employ the following.
a) Always use a ROC-A band radio when operating at or near Aerodromes. Communicate altitude and separation constantly.
b) Issue your emergency notam so you are indemnified and have a secured site and airspace.
c) advise the local aerodrome operator school or stake holders.
The above doesn’t need to be handled solely by just the pilot, that is why there are SOPS; and relying on your team is huge aspect.
The YRP helicopter doesn’t just fly when they want to anytime they want. They are procedures and those guys are top notch.
Nevertheless good see what the accident report makes out of this; and not going to jump to conclusions.
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