Divorce is inevitable, MM and me

[douglas_in_philly]

Might be time to invest in some Mac Mini pontoons!

 

[Paulr]

yup

 

[bkilgrow]

On Sunday 12th January MM and me had a bit of flying time around our local river in Armagh Northern Ireland. Weather was good. Wind was around 10mph well within MM capabilities.

View attachment 92256

11 minutes into the flight, the drone dropped 27ft and almost hit the water, it failed to respond to my power inputs on the left stick. The drone was sent back and the flight log also sent to DJI.

DJI responded that the drone was OK.

When asked for their analysis of the flight log it was as follows:

Dear David,

Thank you for your message.

Our Data Analysts have checked the data you provided. Please see their conclusion below:

"1. The aircraft worked under GPS mode and did not respond well to the pilot's command due to the strong wind;

2. Flight Time T=05:16,Relative Height H=13.6 m,Distance to Home Point D=31.8 m,there was no pilot’s input, the aircraft tilted 11.6 degrees rightward to resist the wind,which indicates that there was strong wind affecting the aircraft;

3. T=05:31,H=12.3 m,D=34.1 m,the warning of “High wind velocity. Fly with caution and land in a safe place ASAP” appeared;

4. T=11:00,H=3.7 m,D=23.5 m,the aircraft descended because propulsion was affected by the strong wind;

5. T=12:47,the aircraft landed on ground and no crash incident happened "

If there is anything else we can do for you, please let us know. We will be happy to assist you.

Kind Regards,

Stefan

Customer Service EU
DJI Europe

So, at 5:31 I got a message saying High wind velocity, I honestly cannot remember, but if I did, I did. Apparently during the entire flight, that was the only message I got regarding High Winds.
At 11:00 "the aircraft descended because propulsion was affected by the strong wind"

The MM did not get blown away from me or anywhere else, it simply descended.

That's it case closed.

For me, its the end of me and the MM, I simply cannot put a drone in the air if I can't control it.

There are numerous other posts on this forum and the DJI forum as well citing MM falling from the sky.

I think there is a problem, a serious problem with the control systems of the MM, perhaps lack of power, I don't know but I am very, very glad I still have my Mavic Air.

I had a very similar problem. It happens over and over again, different locations. I finally took a video of me pushing the up-stick, and the drone crashing to the ground, failing to respond to the stick input. I've sent it in for repair, but my guess is they are going to say 'nothing wrong' The thing flew great before the firmware upgrade to 1.04. Now it's basically un-flyable.

 

[bkilgrow]

Flight log here: DJI Flight Log Viewer - PhantomHelp.com

Please note, I hand launched the drone about 13 feet above the level of the river.

Around 11 minutes into the flight the drone descended 4 feet without my input, I then reacted and despite full throttle the drone continued to descend until it reached minus 11 feet. I estimate the drone was about 30 feet above the river level before descending, my calculations are:

Start of descent = 16 feet
End of descent = -11 feet
Height above river at end of descent, about 3 feet
30 feet

This is a dronie, taken just before the failure, notice the water is calm and very, very little wind.

The DJI report, point 4 says propulsion failed due to strong wind, it will be interesting to see is anyone can throw light on this, the only mention of strong wind being reported was at 5.16 and 5.30 into the flight.

Having flown a Spark and Mavic Air for over 3 years I can honestly say I have never experienced control issues like this one.

This isn't a water problem. I've got the same issue over grass and asphalt. Two completely different locations.

 

[RCWatchman]

Maybe a crazy thought but my experience goes way back to a Phantom 1 and on occasion it was known to develop what was called a vortex effect that would cause the sudden loss of lift and sometimes it would drop all the way to the ground and either crash or bounce. The craft would develop a doughnut of turbulent air and drop through the center of it leaving you to watch it fall at full throttle. The best way to defeat this was to move to the side kind of like getting free of a riptide. Sometimes that worked and sometimes it did not. Maybe the design of the MM has allowed this to creep back into some of these flights. Just a thought, please don't blast me...

 

[sar104]

Maybe a crazy thought but my experience goes way back to a Phantom 1 and on occasion it was known to develop what was called a vortex effect that would cause the sudden loss of lift and sometimes it would drop all the way to the ground and either crash or bounce. The craft would develop a doughnut of turbulent air and drop through the center of it leaving you to watch it fall at full throttle. The best way to defeat this was to move to the side kind of like getting free of a riptide. Sometimes that worked and sometimes it did not. Maybe the design of the MM has allowed this to creep back into some of these flights. Just a thought, please don't blast me...

With the pitch and roll instability it looks very much like VRS, as I've mentioned in several of the threads, but so far none of the events has yielded a DAT file which is what would definitively identify it. I haven't seen that since the P2.

 

[VegasFlyer]

Maybe a crazy thought but my experience goes way back to a Phantom 1 and on occasion it was known to develop what was called a vortex effect that would cause the sudden loss of lift and sometimes it would drop all the way to the ground and either crash or bounce. The craft would develop a doughnut of turbulent air and drop through the center of it leaving you to watch it fall at full throttle. The best way to defeat this was to move to the side kind of like getting free of a riptide. Sometimes that worked and sometimes it did not. Maybe the design of the MM has allowed this to creep back into some of these flights. Just a thought, please don't blast me...

I believe this is what you're referring to:

Radio control multirotors[edit]
Multirotors (also known as drones) are subject to normal rotorcraft aerodynamics, including vortex ring state. Frame design, size and power affect the likelihood of entering the state and recovering from it. Multirotors that do not have altitude hold are also more likely to succumb to operator error, where the pilot drops the craft too fast resulting in the upwash at the rotor hubs that can lead to vortex ring state. Those that are equipped with that feature, on the other hand, tend to control their descent automatically and can usually (but not always) escape the dangerous condition.[9]

I read this some months ago and I have since changed the way I descend.

Vortex ring state - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Helicopter Technique: Escape the vortex

 

[David2111]

DJI have taken the view its a warranty issue. They are not conceding there is an issue with the drone, but it looks like they are replacing it. As I have said several times, for me, we must have control of the aircraft when we are using it, if not, we are flying in an irresponsible way and we could cause damage of injury. There are many, many stories on this site of lack of control. The flight records exist of these instances and DJI need to explain them and fix the issue.

 

[douglas_in_philly]

DJI have taken the view its a warranty issue. They are not conceding there is an issue with the drone, but it looks like they are replacing it. As I have said several times, for me, we must have control of the aircraft when we are using it, if not, we are flying in an irresponsible way and we could cause damage of injury. There are many, many stories on this site of lack of control. The flight records exist of these instances and DJI need to explain them and fix the issue.

Well, at least DJI is going to cover it (with a replacement, I presume?). Good luck!

 

[xman1]

Anyone who has been into aircraft for long know that a microburst can happen at any time. It crashes real aircraft as large as jetliners, so something so light as a MM will not be able to deal with it, especially over a wide open area like water.

A clue to see if this happened is to see if the MM went to full power to maintain altitude.

Just a suggestion if you want a weather explanation.

Edit: Downburst - Wikipedia

 

[David2111]

Anyone who has been into aircraft for long know that a microburst can happen at any time. It crashes real aircraft as large as jetliners, so something so light as a MM will not be able to deal with it, especially over a wide open area like water.

A clue to see if this happened is to see if the MM went to full power to maintain altitude.

Just a suggestion if you want a weather explanation.

Edit: Downburst - Wikipedia

I don't think it was a microburst, the wind was light. The drone fell 27ft. The first 4 feet was without any input from me, after that it was full throttle with no response. Essentially, it was a loss of power. The flight logs have been well examined by wise folk on this site and DJI seem to be coughing up a new one. There are numerous reports of loss of flight control on this site usually by inexperienced pilots, I have been flying for 3 years now and its the first complete control failure for me.

 

[Gjanello]

I had a very similar problem. It happens over and over again, different locations. I finally took a video of me pushing the up-stick, and the drone crashing to the ground, failing to respond to the stick input. I've sent it in for repair, but my guess is they are going to say 'nothing wrong' The thing flew great before the firmware upgrade to 1.04. Now it's basically un-flyable.

My 3 week old MM started doing same erratic behavior mentioned here..(errors - power overload & cpu overheating). This was in no wind. MM would fly backwards a few feet on take off, then land on its own with error notice. Be prepared for a “no problem found” diagnostics report. All customer service techs have been cordial, but in my opinion they don’t do a very extensive check. Here Is my report from DJI. Btw.. I have DJI Care & will use it instead of free warranty when I get it back.

“

DJI Supervisor （DJI Support）
2月1日 CST09:06

Dear ——-

Good day.

This email is an update on your open case with case number: CAS-3939216————-..

You reported an issue as mentioned below:
- Propulsion Error;
- Code 30168 and others when trying to fly;
- Flies backward on take off.

Our facility had conducted the damage assessment to your UNIT and the results are as follows:
- No Fault Found;
- Could Not Replicate the issue you reported;
- Flight tested and no issues found;
- Remote controller issue not found.

If you are satisfied with the results of our damage assessment, we will proceed in shipping your unit back.”

 

[Nicklittle135]

Gonna throw an idea into the works.
flying over water. you can get rapid downdrafts due to temperature absorption. And also humidity can have a little effect too.
add wind to it and that might be a possible reason.

 

[David2111]

MM returned to me today, no report, just exactly what I sent to them was sent back. So, I don't know if its a new one or my old one. I now have a MM for sale, I can't trust it.

Back to the Mavic Air for me, I use my drone when touring, its been in Canada and across Europe with me. It would be heartbreaking to bring a drone with me and lose it due to wind or loss of control.

The first 30 seconds of this video is why I have a drone.

 

[Gjanello]

MM returned to me today, no report, just exactly what I sent to them was sent back. So, I don't know if its a new one or my old one. I now have a MM for sale, I can't trust it.

Back to the Mavic Air for me, I use my drone when touring, its been in Canada and across Europe with me. It would be heartbreaking to bring a drone with me and lose it due to wind or loss of control.

The first 30 seconds of this video is why I have a drone.

Look at original RA #. It should have your Mini serial #.. cross check with one you got back.

 

[RodPad]

Did you send in your remote with it?
In other words do you link the mini with the controller like a Phantom?

Rod

 

[xspwhite]

I think these are updrafts/downdrafts. Updrafts will lift the little mini to the sky, where downdrafts will bring it to the ground. On another note, a side wind will carry the little mini away possibly to another city.

Even my mavic 2 pro feels very lite in the air to me, but it also seems to have a lot of power.

 

[MavicMan17]

the more negitive MM flights i read about the more im glad i bought the bigger Mavic Pro , hope it gets bettr for all MM drones

Hard to see so many negative comments about the MM. I have had zero issues with my MM. not one glitch, or loss of signal no drops or loss of control. If you read the manual and use lord forbid I use this term "common sense" then all should be well. other than someone getting a so call dud from DJI to begin with your gonna have the same chances of having anything that you buy be faulty from factory. With that being said yes wind is an issue. but wind is an issue with anything weight under 250g. I have flown many of times out over my fields in 10-15 mph winds even as high as 300ft and never had one issue even at a ranges upwards of a mile. I do not wanna here all the none sense about VLOS. I fly mainly all my own private property and I have a lot of it. so flying FPV over a mile out on my own private property does not pose any dangers to anyone or anything except maybe a corn stalk. Yes i have flown over my pond in every flight mode on the MM, and over various heights but I use extreme caution because the MM is not water proof. I also Fly my MM in my home all the time with the weather is not flight sustaining outside, I put guards on and take off never had issue their either.

 

[DanMan32]

Did you send in your remote with it?
In other words do you link the mini with the controller like a Phantom?

Rod

The MM AC and RC do get paired much like the other DJI systems. However you only need to send remotes if they are potentially the source of the problem.

 

[David2111]

Did you send in your remote with it?
In other words do you link the mini with the controller like a Phantom?

Rod

Nope, kept the remote, if I had to guess I would say the MM is a new one, its got all the stickers on it. I also sent in three batteries, I got one returned in a box (as in a new one) and the other two wrapped in bubble wrap. The MM links to the controller which obviously has your phone in it for a screeen.