DJI Goggles Finally here, but illegal!

[CactusJackSlade]

I don't worry about it ONE OUNCE! It's a completely RIDICULOUS rule. If an aircraft comes within miles of you, then you will hear it first.

"You've been charged with flying your drone using goggles, without a spotter......how do you plead?" said NO JUDGE EVER.

Not totally true under certain circumstances... Near Tucson, AZ there are may areas where very fast military aircraft come whizzing through canyons with little or no warning... including sound. by the time you could react it's there and gone. This is why it is also important to know where training corridors are if you live in a military active region...

In general though if you use goggles you definitely should have a spotter... and technically the spotter should be the one with the goggles while the pilot keeps LOS.

 

[kona]

Has *anybody* died or been seriously injured by a drone in the US? No? Well then any discussion of anything having to do with making any form of drone flight should be ridiculed just like making kite flying or skateboarding or friggin eating ice cream illegal should be ridiculed. Anybody publicly suggesting making these goggles illegal should be sued for harrasment, unless they can show evidence of risk. Just my humble opinion...

 

[Kilrah]

Near Tucson, AZ there are may areas where very fast military aircraft come whizzing through canyons with little or no warning... including sound.

Then don't fly at altitudes and locations that may conflict... easy. Which you would/should not do even without goggles anyway.

 

[MacIak]

I think the price is very reasonable. I currently use the Moverio and will not part from it until the next moverio arrives. The dji solution is way too bulky but when available locally i will buy it. Looks like a very decent quality product, just like the mavic.

 

[Shadow2020]

Can I ask a crazy question... sort of Emperor's new clothes..
My mavic is so small. Once it is about 200 feet I can barely see it. If I fly it to any distance, it is definitely not visible. To stay in VLOS, you'd have to basically just hover in front of you... You can't really fly it anywhere, even at short range. It renders it useless. How is this rule practical?

 

[SRJ_Mavic_PRO]

The rules were adopted for RC planes I think and the FAA needs to redo them to have a practical use for drones. But pigs will be flying before that ever happens....

 

[coullit]

I use litchi vr with goggles for a year now está muy bien

 

[baweber]

They would be great for VLOS work and a spotter with you.
No issues with it if used in this manner!

There are three crew members identified in 107 - The Pilot in Command, the Person Manipulating the Controls, and the Visual Observer. When by yourself you are doing all three jobs. When there is a crew, the FAA Certified person is the Pilot in Command and has100% responsibility for crew management and flight safety. The PMC is obviously the one that needs to maintain visual line of site with the aircraft, but the PIC has to be close enough to the PMC to take over in an instant if needed. The responsibility of the Visual Observer is not just to keep the aircraft in site, but to constantly scan the entire flight area for any potential problems. When present, this person should be at some distance from the PMC so as to cover more area. The PMC cannot use goggles to maintain VLOS, obviously. Of course the PMC looks back and forth between the aircraft and the screen. But if the monitor screen is showing the same thing the goggles would, what is the need for goggles except to totally alter the experience, and change from proper risk management to pretending you are in the aircraft and flying it? There is no place in commercial drone activity where the PMC should be wearing goggles. When doing photography the PIC might let the client wear the goggles to approve images. Otherwise they should be regarded as an accessory for use in highly controlled areas while engaged in recreation or races. What I find ironic about the current regulations is that they allow the least trained individuals to engage in the most risky behavior.

 

[code_ultra_zyl]

Is it me or are these googles totally illegal? Unless you have another visual observer with you, you can NOT legally fly without visual line of sight. Don't get me wrong I would love to try them. And for those of us with Inspires where the camera can be controlled by a second person this would be a fantastic tool for the camera op.

That said and back to my point, the FAA very clearly states that goggles and other FPV screens or devices do NOT count as VLS.

Please chime in here if I am in error.

rb

Please FAA catch up to the times! Goggles provide a more immersive experience and glare free view than line of sight flying. I can't see what attitude my Mavic is ANYWAY in after it is 100 ft out, because it is small and black... so always tend to fly by screen anyway. I only fly by sight when I need to see how close it is to a building/tree while doing a video shot. Goggles are the future!

 

[MacIak]

I always fly VLOS...during takeoff and landing !!

 

[baweber]

There are three crew members identified in 107 - The Pilot in Command, the Person Manipulating the Controls, and the Visual Observer. When by yourself you are doing all three jobs. When there is a crew, the FAA Certified person is the Pilot in Command and has100% responsibility for crew management and flight safety. The PMC is obviously the one that needs to maintain visual line of site with the aircraft, but the PIC has to be close enough to the PMC to take over in an instant if needed. The responsibility of the Visual Observer is not just to keep the aircraft in site, but to constantly scan the entire flight area for any potential problems. When present, this person should be at some distance from the PMC so as to cover more area. The PMC cannot use goggles to maintain VLOS, obviously. Of course the PMC looks back and forth between the aircraft and the screen. But if the monitor screen is showing the same thing the goggles would, what is the need for goggles except to totally alter the experience, and change from proper risk management to pretending you are in the aircraft and flying it? There is no place in commercial drone activity where the PMC should be wearing goggles. When doing photography the PIC might let the client wear the goggles to approve images. Otherwise they should be regarded as an accessory for use in highly controlled areas while engaged in recreation or races. What I find ironic about the current regulations is that they allow the least trained individuals to engage in the most risky behavior.

Just watched the video explaining more about how they work. A two man team looks like a great way to do photography - except for the apparent jumpy movement seen when shooting video. The pilot moves the drone as usual, in line of sight, with feedback from the person wearing goggles (PWG?)and the photographer lines up the shot in the goggles using motion controlled gimbal mode. It gives you the added control of moving the camera left and right (maybe 30°?) independent of the aircraft! Also he mentions an aperture control in manual mode? Didn't think the camera had a changeable aperture. Also - with bright yellow skin I can see my drone about 300 feet away.

 

[flyNfrank]

Oh boy Frankie. Over priced? Compared to? Have you seen the list of features? Overpriced to the ones you stuff your phone in? Yes... overpriced compared to Fatshark, Epson? Not even close, these are a bargain if you want goggles on the cheap.

You can't find goggles that do what these do in the first place, let alone the quality.

You're wrong on the beta testing front too. These were announced alongside the Mavic. Then nada. They mention nothing for six months? I believe they were testing during that time, I also believe they didn't launch with the Mavic because they had to change their "purpose" to meet FAA regulations regarding line of sight.

I've always wanted goggles, but couldn't pay the crazy amounts, only to have to buy external batteries, and have cords hanging from my face. These are wireless and can replace the need for a phone or tablet. That alone is awesome.

#notforyou
#expensiveisrelative

There is just not enough meat on the bone to be priced up where they currently have them. I look at them as a novelty, as in guys will buy them and try them out, and then soon after they will sit on the self and the phones & tablets will return as the pilots preferred method to view. Priced as they currently are, you could plug in a 50-60 inch flat screen as another viewing option. Btw, Phones, ipads, and tablets, each have multiple uses to them making them more valuable with pilots. Most that are fortunate to get the DJI Goggles will most likely say "yeah they're really neat and have a certain wow factor, but....I find them to feel heavy after wearing awhile. Plus wearing them in temps above 70 degrees I find them to be hot and not as comfortable". And...being high priced and not able to be used with anything else in your house or vehicles just raises additional redflags. So if you could use them with your home theater, or your gaming system in the Tahoe or family van, then that value would make them somewhat justified in price.
As for what they do, and are capable of, I totally agree you on how nice a product they are.

 

[Mavic22704]

The only crashes I have ever had was back when I flew line of sight. Using goggles I have never come close to a crash but I only fly forward. I can fly through woods using goggles no problem. Goggles make my flying a lot safer. I had a dji hexacopter and made every flight using fat shark goggles, no crashes or broke props. I wear the goggles a little loose so I can just see a little sky at the top of the goggles and have line of sight if needed. But that is coming from someone that flew nitro 60 size helicopters inverted back in the 80s and started with a gmp cricket helicopter lol.

 

[Lone Wolf 58]

No I think your spot on with interpretation of the rules and regs. I think we should try to follow them in most cases. However if you want to fly FPV without a spotter I won't hold it against you and call you a bad pilot cause I Think FPV is the future as the technology progresses and price comes down. Most of the guild lines we fly by today weren't even possible 5 years ago. It's all about common sense and being reasonable in regards to safety. Unfortunately there are a few cowboy yahoo s who don't get it and that's why other set up rules, laws and guide lines.

 

[RobertD]

The DJI goggle are not illegal. How you choose to use them might. I seldom fly alone. Anyone standing near me can be my "spotter".

Who determines VLS anyway? Who says when you can "see" your RPA or not? If VLS rules were enforceable, then FAA would be require all RPA to be tethered to limit the flying distance to less than 500 meters.

Time to implement VLS rules for golf balls too! They are objects traveling through the airspace! A player can't hit a golf ball farther than he can see it! Golf balls are dangerous and can hurt people; even babies!

 

[MavicMoira]

Remember you're only flying within LOS distances. You'll hear that aircraft and remove your goggles to check where it is.

At 4 miles distance (as many seem to be happy to fly) you won't know a thing about it. Above, below, to the side - all invisible to you the pilot. And what if you are flying sideways or backwards? Personally I think the European laws are more sensible. At 300m distance, even with direct line of sight, I struggle to see my MP.

 

[BorisTheSpider]

Note that anytime you're flying your Mavic by looking at the tablet you're technically operating just as illegally as with the goggles. Don't tell me you're never doing that.

I am not a lawyer, however I wish to dispel something that in my opinion is a misconception. In flying, there are a number of rules that require visual reference - for example, it's required that visual reference with the ground is maintained when below minimums on an instrument approach, or during a visual approach. Similarly, during VFR flight you need to be able to see and avoid traffic.

In any of those cases, I don't think anyone is suggesting that a pilot stares at the ground, or refuses to glance at the instruments, read a map, or blink during the maneuver. The intent is clear - visual reference must be possible, and sufficient visual reference to fly safely must be maintained.

So IMO looking at your phone when you're flying a drone is not flying without visual reference.

Having your head encased in a set of goggles without a spotter IS flying without visual reference.

Stop equating safe practises like looking at your phone, with unsafe ones like being unable to see conflicting traffic because you chose to put a box on your head and refused to take a spotter with you.

 

[Doecliff]

I have seen this topic debated vigorously on other forums as well. In the end if you are a part 107 pilot you cant say you didn't know better, you have to maintain visual line of sight with the aircraft without any visual aids other than eyeglasses. If you are just a drone hobbyist and flying under the recreational best practices, technically I believe its still visual line of sight but then who's gonna say anything. Guys get together all the time and race mini quads with FPV goggles. As long as you are being responsible and minding your own business then you will probably be ok but if "they" wanted to "they" could find you in fault. There is no giant conspiracy out there to get FPV drone pilots using goggles. The laws don't say FPV goggles are forbidden but they do say your supposed to maintain visual line of sight. Don't go zipping around crowded areas with your drone with or without goggles and you will probably never have a problem.

 

[CactusJackSlade]

Then don't fly at altitudes and locations that may conflict... easy. Which you would/should not do even without goggles anyway.

Yes of course - but my point was that you can't always hear an aircraft coming and depend on that for avoidance.

 

[CactusJackSlade]

I have seen this topic debated vigorously on other forums as well. In the end if you are a part 107 pilot you cant say you didn't know better, you have to maintain visual line of sight with the aircraft without any visual aids other than eyeglasses. If you are just a drone hobbyist and flying under the recreational best practices, technically I believe its still visual line of sight but then who's gonna say anything. Guys get together all the time and race mini quads with FPV goggles. As long as you are being responsible and minding your own business then you will probably be ok but if "they" wanted to "they" could find you in fault. There is no giant conspiracy out there to get FPV drone pilots using goggles. The laws don't say FPV goggles are forbidden but they do say your supposed to maintain visual line of sight. Don't go zipping around crowded areas with your drone with or without goggles and you will probably never have a problem.

Exactly, and that goes for most flying - just do it responsibly and you will probably never have an issue.