DJI to restrict non-compliant drones at next software update

[adiru]

Here is what a user posted in the DJI MAVIC PRO OWNERS SECTION ON Facebook

"Upcoming UPDATE Explained: There is a surprising amount of panic about the upcoming update. Here is what it really means. Next time you update the DJI Go app, it will ask you to sign in into your DJI account on the app. You will have to do so only ONCE, NOT every time you fly.

Here is the reason behind it: When you buy the Mavic, you have to activate it. When you activate it, DJI stores a record of the serial number of the Mavic and associates it with your account on their servers. Under the old system you only had to activate it once. So, let’s say you buy a Mavic, activate it, fly for a while, and than sell it to someone else. It is still activated under your name, and if the next owner does something bad with it, and the authorities come to DJI and ask “who owns that drone,” DJI would give them your name.

Under the new system the drone is activated against the app at the time of the flight, and if there is a drone-app login mismatch, than you need data connection to reactivate it. The end result is, if your sell the Mavic, the next owner would have to activate it under their own name. That’s ALL.

The sky isn’t falling, and you can put down your pitchforks. The reason they warned you is because many people do a firmware update in the field, and this update will have to be done with a data connection available. But again, ONLY when you are updating the firmware or the app, NOT every time."

Keep in mind that as you stated "Here is what a user posted in the DJI MAVIC PRO OWNERS SECTION ON Facebook".

So that is one persons interpretation of what it all means!

I have dealt with Chinese companies for about 18 Years. I fully understand the way they operate when dealing with foreign countries and companies. So I can absolutely believe that they may indeed scale this back due to the backlash. I am in wait and see mode!

When the next week arrives I will see what happens. Then as the weeks and months pass we will all see if this goes further. Trust but Verify is a wise phrase to use when dealing with a Chinese company. I do not say that out of any kind of Racism, I actually like a lot of things about the people and their culture, but even a person from China will tell you that the powerful over their will dish out whatever they feel they can get away with and the people never do anything to stop them.

BTW here is a sad video that shows exactly what it is like in China. I actually experienced this myself when a mans wife was being chased by two men. Incredibly the family locked her out of the house when she could not run fast enough to make it to her front door. I started to approach them from across the street and they ran away.

When I came across this video a few weeks ago it bought back a lot of memories.

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I am sorry that this is off topic.

Rob

Being an Chinese man myself, I concur what Rob speaks is the truth.
In China DJI is called "Big Jang"
It is an adjective like Google.

For example someone says they "Googled" something.
In Chinese when we say someone got had, we say they got " DJI'd "

Mavic is a fine piece of hardware, but the app and the firmware is like Skynet/terminator level of annoying.

 

[collins]

Here is what a user posted in the DJI MAVIC PRO OWNERS SECTION ON Facebook

"Upcoming UPDATE Explained: There is a surprising amount of panic about the upcoming update. Here is what it really means. Next time you update the DJI Go app, it will ask you to sign in into your DJI account on the app. You will have to do so only ONCE, NOT every time you fly.

Here is the reason behind it: When you buy the Mavic, you have to activate it. When you activate it, DJI stores a record of the serial number of the Mavic and associates it with your account on their servers. Under the old system you only had to activate it once. So, let’s say you buy a Mavic, activate it, fly for a while, and than sell it to someone else. It is still activated under your name, and if the next owner does something bad with it, and the authorities come to DJI and ask “who owns that drone,” DJI would give them your name.

Under the new system the drone is activated against the app at the time of the flight, and if there is a drone-app login mismatch, than you need data connection to reactivate it. The end result is, if your sell the Mavic, the next owner would have to activate it under their own name. That’s ALL.

The sky isn’t falling, and you can put down your pitchforks. The reason they warned you is because many people do a firmware update in the field, and this update will have to be done with a data connection available. But again, ONLY when you are updating the firmware or the app, NOT every time."

This seems a very sensible post and seems very much in line with what DJI has been proposing.

DJI proposed an electronic identification framework for UAS that would allow authorities in the United States to identify drone owners

'DJI Proposes Electronic Identification Framework For Small Drones'

I like this quote from their blog.

'DJI understands that accountability is a key part of responsible drone use, and we have outlined a proposal that balances the privacy of drone operators with the legitimate concerns authorities have about some drone operations.'

 

[dwallersv]

What do you suppose gives DJI the legal 'right' to handicap the Mavic of customers post-sales , retroactively and after the fact, without consent and without legal justification (ie Go Pro Karma recall)

The consent, and legal justification it provided, when you agreed to the terms and conditions necessary to use the app, and again each time you update firmware.

Surely you read those disclosures you press "YES" to online, right?

 

[adiru]

The consent, and legal justification it provided, when you agreed to the terms and conditions necessary to use the app, and again each time you update firmware.

Surely you read those disclosures you press "YES" to online, right?

I have no plans to "update" the firmware, no do I use DJI app.

 

[dwallersv]

I agree with Aduru. I cannot remember when I have ever seen a consumer device handicapped post sale by a forced update.

You guys aren't thinking very hard about it. Happens all the time with software products, particularly those that are compliant with one or more government standards -- which change.

The reason there's no cause for legal action when a feature is removed from a software application is you agree to the changes from the very beginning when you accept the terms of the software license in order to use the software at all.

You've done exactly the very same thing with the Mavic. You don't own the DJI app and the firmware in the drone; you licensed the use of these. And the terms of that license, just like the Windows Office license for instance, give the manufacturer absolute carte blanche to change the features and functionality in future updates.

There is no legal recourse. You do not have a right to use the DJI GO 4 app. Your Mavic is perfectly operable via the RC alone, and you do not have to ever update the firmware (no one is being FORCED to update).

Now, please don't get the idea that I'm some sort of ally of DJI with this post, nor am I defending them. I think this change absolutely stinks. However, I don't have a lot of patience with people who agree to things without even bothering to know what they're agreeing to, and then whine and moan when they're held to that agreement.

I did read all that stuff I agreed to, and went into this venture with my eyes wide open. I don't like changes like this, but I knew I was at the mercy of DJI for this kind of thing. If it gets obnoxious enough, I have faith competition will give us good alternatives, and DJI will respond.

 

[adiru]

This seems a very sensible post and seems very much in line with what DJI has been proposing.

DJI proposed an electronic identification framework for UAS that would allow authorities in the United States to identify drone owners

'DJI Proposes Electronic Identification Framework For Small Drones'

I like this quote from their blog.

'DJI understands that accountability is a key part of responsible drone use, and we have outlined a proposal that balances the privacy of drone operators with the legitimate concerns authorities have about some drone operations.'

Yeah this whitepaper, Dropbox - DJI Remote Identification Whitepaper 3-22-17.pdf

Just read it.

Seems clear what the new "updates" are all about

DJI is putting in place a system that will make it possible to track all drones in real time all the time
using the same radio that is already in the Mavic

No wonder it comes with the caveat that if you don't login, re-register, etc that you can only fly 98feet high, 150 feet away.... and no live feed.

It all coming together and making sense now...

In the same whitepaper, DJI said no new hardware would be needed, only firmware changes since its using the same radio link
and that it was anticipated readiness for this summer!

 

[adiru]

You guys aren't thinking very hard about it. Happens all the time with software products, particularly those that are compliant with one or more government standards -- which change.

The reason there's no cause for legal action when a feature is removed from a software application is you agree to the changes from the very beginning when you accept the terms of the software license in order to use the software at all.

You've done exactly the very same thing with the Mavic. You don't own the DJI app and the firmware in the drone; you licensed the use of these. And the terms of that license, just like the Windows Office license for instance, give the manufacturer absolute carte blanche to change the features and functionality in future updates.

There is no legal recourse. You do not have a right to use the DJI GO 4 app. Your Mavic is perfectly operable via the RC alone, and you do not have to ever update the firmware (no one is being FORCED to update).

Now, please don't get the idea that I'm some sort of ally of DJI with this post, nor am I defending them. I think this change absolutely stinks. However, I don't have a lot of patience with people who agree to things without even bothering to know what they're agreeing to, and then whine and moan when they're held to that agreement.

I did read all that stuff I agreed to, and went into this venture with my eyes wide open. I don't like changes like this, but I knew I was at the mercy of DJI for this kind of thing. If it gets obnoxious enough, I have faith competition will give us good alternatives, and DJI will respond.

One tiny but crucial point of contention.

Based on DJI statements, the way we read it is that if one doesn't update firmware, will automatically get capped to 95 feet max height, 150 feet max range, regardless of if only using RC and not the app etc

 

[Stuart Wood]

The consent, and legal justification it provided, when you agreed to the terms and conditions necessary to use the app, and again each time you update firmware.

Surely you read those disclosures you press "YES" to online, right?

Absolutely, I just have a short term memory issue! Can you provide the reference that covers this change?

 

[dewster]

Ahhh, the trials and tribulations of falling in love with a product that is born out of a Communist country... where rules/laws, "fairness" and basic rights are controlled by a minority. There was a time a-la 1980's when the US would NOT do business/trade with a Communist country period. Perhaps it's time for a US company to step up and take the reigns in the Quad world? Perhaps this the brainchild of a diabolical Chinese company to gather as much data about the locations and details of users lives, details of landscapes and other key data to be used for some other purpose? Or are we blowing this all out of proportion?

Lol. True statement. These over bearing restrictions would not occur in the "free world", but we also would not be able to afford the tech if built outside of China.

 

[Stuart Wood]

One tiny but crucial point of contention.

Based on DJI statements, the way we read it is that if one doesn't update firmware, will automatically get capped to 95 feet max height, 150 feet max range, regardless of if only using RC and not the app etc

Also, poss region lock, as per DVD's, so can't use outside of home region without registration? Just read their latest direct mail, it gives no good reason for doing this except improvements to "geospatial" data and flight functions as determined by your geographical location and use profile.

 

[dewster]

Get a used phone or compatible tablet; download the app and keep it offline. You'll just have to go map less.

 

[Stuart Wood]

Get a used phone or compatible tablet; download the app and keep it offline. You'll just have to go map less.

If this does really lock you to an operating region I wonder how long it will be before someone jailbreaks the firmware, as per iOS? These sorts of restrictions only create an aftermarket for "non legal" solutions! Happened with DVD's, DRM, phones etc. Come to think of it maybe they could fix the camera algorithm issues at the same time!!

 

[torqum]

Can someone please provide actual evidence of the firmware having a time-activated kill switch? This "adiru" guy has been hyper-active in spreading his conjectures everywhere and has gotten a lot of people into a panic about having no choice to update. But that's all dependent on an actual need to update, and as far as I know, there is absolutely no evidence that there is a need to update. People have had mavics now for over 7 months. I'm sure there are still some people with earlier versions of the firmware. Has anyone ever been required to update their firmware or even heard of anyone being required to update their firmware?

I've had my mavic since february and haven't updated the firmware since. There's no need to. It flies just fine. I also fly with litchi. And I have automatic updates turned off on my phone. As far as I'm concerned this is just a lot of noise about nothing.

 

[Stuart Wood]

Can someone please provide actual evidence of the firmware having a time-activated kill switch? This "adiru" guy has been hyper-active in spreading his conjectures everywhere and has gotten a lot of people into a panic about having no choice to update. But that's all dependent on an actual need to update, and as far as I know, there is absolutely no evidence that there is a need to update. People have had mavics now for over 7 months. I'm sure there are still some people with earlier versions of the firmware. Has anyone ever been required to update their firmware or even heard of anyone being required to update their firmware?

I've had my mavic since february and haven't updated the firmware since. There's no need to. It flies just fine. I also fly with litchi. And I have automatic updates turned off on my phone. As far as I'm concerned this is just a lot of noise about nothing.

Not trying to stoke the fire, but just cut this from the email DJI sent this morning (my underlining). They state this update will be pushed out at the end of the week. This would appear to be outcome if you do not update and re register.

"If this activation process is not performed, the aircraft will not have access to the correct geospatial information and flight functions for that region, and its operations will be restricted if you update the upcoming firmware: Live camera streaming will be disabled, and flight will be limited to a 50-meter (164-foot) radius up to 30 meters (98 feet) high."

 

[SoloShot]

What do you suppose gives DJI the legal 'right' to handicap the Mavic of customers post-sales , retroactively and after the fact, without consent and without legal justification (ie Go Pro Karma recall)
If DJI prioritizes appeasing governments or safety in the name of self preservation then so be it, but if it wants to handicap units already sold, then DJI has the obligation to at least give a partial / pro-rated if not full refund for those customers whom demand /request to be given the option to return their units and get their money back, since the product they got effectively was or had become materially different from what was represented to them at the time of purchase.

Sorry but no matter how DJI spins it, they can't have it both ways. Either DJI screwed up back then when the Mavic was on the drawing boards or DJI screwed up now, but why is the consumer subsidizing for DJI's mistake by getting less than what they paid for? Why is DJI allowed to effectively use tactics that could be construed as anti-competitive (artificially reducing battery safety margins to give better flight times against competitors on specs to publicize themselves to market, but then push out firmware updates to cap the battery usable levels after the fact, in the name of safety and the banner of security, without updating the true effectively flight time to reflect the change, etc) when they have ulterior motives and vested interests (increasing DJI Care profit margins for being more and more conservative in flight envelopes anyone?!) .... either way I don't see how this is anything but 'evil'.

I predict just as the FAA fell to a class action suit over hobby model aircraft registration DJI may soon find itself on the barrel end of a similar classs action suit using your reasoning stated above. I suspect they might be liable for treble consumer fraud violations. Time will tell.

 

[Johnie5]

Do we have a date for when this update will be released?

 

[steve31000]

I am travelling to Italy this week and worried that I will need to update to this new Geosystem version whilst there. How will it work when I return home to Switzerland? Will it permanently lock my drone to the very limited Italian legal drone allowances or does it know where you are and adapt to the local limitations? From reading the DJI FAQs, I'm worried that when I loggin to validate my drone, it will think I am based in Italy and implant the Italian limitations into the software on a permanent basis even when I get back home (i.e. 70m max alititude and the fact you fly almost nowhere).

Also does anyone know how the Enhanced Warning Zone verification will work. It says that the verification steps needed to unlock the zone work the same as Authorized zones but do not require a validated account or internet connection which is not clear to me. How can you unlock it with the same process as Authorized zones which requires logging into your account and sending your phone number or credit card number without internet connection? Is there another way of unlocking without internet connection or logging in?

 

[Kilrah]

Not trying to stoke the fire, but just cut this from the email DJI sent this morning (my underlining). They state this update will be pushed out at the end of the week. This would appear to be outcome if you do not update and re register.

That would mean if you update the app and don't register you get limited, but if you don't update the app it'll most likely continue working as always.

I am travelling to Italy this week and worried that I will need to update to this new Geosystem version whilst there.

You never "need to update". Just disable autoupdate of the app on your device and don't update if prompted for a new version of either app or firmware, easy.

 

[Stuart Wood]

What do you suppose gives DJI the legal 'right' to handicap the Mavic of customers post-sales , retroactively and after the fact, without consent and without legal justification (ie Go Pro Karma recall)
If DJI prioritizes appeasing governments or safety in the name of self preservation then so be it, but if it wants to handicap units already sold, then DJI has the obligation to at least give a partial / pro-rated if not full refund for those customers whom demand /request to be given the option to return their units and get their money back, since the product they got effectively was or had become materially different from what was represented to them at the time of purchase.

Sorry but no matter how DJI spins it, they can't have it both ways. Either DJI screwed up back then when the Mavic was on the drawing boards or DJI screwed up now, but why is the consumer subsidizing for DJI's mistake by getting less than what they paid for? Why is DJI allowed to effectively use tactics that could be construed as anti-competitive (artificially reducing battery safety margins to give better flight times against competitors on specs to publicize themselves to market, but then push out firmware updates to cap the battery usable levels after the fact, in the name of safety and the banner of security, without updating the true effectively flight time to reflect the change, etc) when they have ulterior motives and vested interests (increasing DJI Care profit margins for being more and more conservative in flight envelopes anyone?!) .... either way I don't see how this is anything but 'evil'.

Agree!!! If we do sign up to allow these sort of blanket changes every time we update then shame on us! But like a lot of these types of contracts it still has to pass a "fairness" test. Be interesting to see if that will hold up if it goes to class action.

 

[Stuart Wood]

That would mean if you update the app and don't register you get limited, but if you don't update the app it'll most likely continue working as always.


You never "need to update". Just disable autoupdate of the app on your device and don't update if prompted for a new version of either app or firmware, easy.

My reading is you need to do both to avoid the restrictions as they want you to verify your account info, which it says you have do AFTER you have installed the app. In reality we won't know until after the end of the week. The email is pretty vaguely written.