DJI to restrict non-compliant drones at next software update

[Nightowl702]

Except for the possibility of your mavic broadcasting its serial number on 2.4 or 5.8 every time you fly.

Its possible but again we wont know until it comes out. If the aircraft is broadcasting it out why would an app upgrade be needed? If its the app broadcasting it out then where would it be broadcast it to? Does DJI have receiving stations all over the world? Would it be done by internet connection? I don't know about anyone else here but I have nothing but trouble with the app If I don't turn off internet on my iPhone first.

 

[Robbyg]

Until such time as something else is known I will just say that as a man who has spent a lot of time around large corporations I find one aspect of this to be very contrary to what DJI is saying.

If our company made a vague statement it would be vague for a reason. If someone in the company tried to clarify the statement and his clarification was removed by us, that would be a sure sign that we were not in agreement with that persons opinion.

So you decide. I can only tell you that what ever original plan they had, it is something that they believe will create legal problems. That is the only reason why I think they have not sent the CEO out to just clarify this mess and put it to bed.

Rob

 

[torqum]

Its possible but again we wont know until it comes out. If the aircraft is broadcasting it out why would an app upgrade be needed? If its the app broadcasting it out then where would it be broadcast it to? Does DJI have receiving stations all over the world? Would it be done by internet connection? I don't know about anyone else here but I have nothing but trouble with the app If I don't turn off internet on my iPhone first.

It's conspiracy theory nonsense, but what they fear is that if police departments are told that the drones are broadcasting their serial number on a certain frequency, then if they spot a drone doing something illegal they could tune into the frequency, jot down the number, then request from DJI the name of the owner. DJI would of course have to voluntarily divulge any info they share, but that's what they fear.

 

[grizzard]

It seems to me a lot of smoke ..... I am not connected to the Internet when I fly and I can cache the maps in the areas I want to fly in ahead of time, so unless I do the update I don't see the problem. Yes ... I need GPS to RTH but GPS is independent of the Internet. Like a TomTom or Garmin; .. no Internet needed. Maybe I'm missing something? If so, please point it out to me. Personally I'm getting really tired of DJi doing a new update every time someone in China get a wild hair and my having to go back on recheck all my settings when I do the update. If I don't , something I didn't expect will happen with possible bad results. I am so tired of these updates that I'm soured on anything new DJi brings out because the maintenance time to continually update their products and that is eating into my enjoyment. At this point I will not buy a Spark ... and I was really thinking seriously about it.

 

[adiru]

What about using litchi

It gets worse

Looks like it's going to affect third party apps like Litchi as well:

Dear developer,

In July, DJI aircraft firmware will require mobile applications that control DJI aircraft to be activated with the user’s DJI account, if that application is being used in China. This will ensure operators use the correct set of geospatial information and flight functions for their aircraft, as determined by their geographical location and user profile.

A summary of the activation system is:
On July 1, this feature will go live on all aircraft (except standalone A3 and N3) that have been upgraded to the latest firmware
Users in China will be required to activate their application by logging into their DJI account at least once every three months within the application
Activation will be persistent in the application until the user logs out
A data connection will be required to log into a DJI account
Outside of China, the SDK will automatically activate the application without requiring the user to log in
If an application is not activated, or a legacy version of the SDK is being used, all camera live streams will be disabled, and flight will be limited to a cylinder of 100m diameter and 30m height to ensure the aircraft stays within line of sight.

This week, v4.1 of the Mobile SDK will be released that will include APIs to support this system. Applications should update to v4.1 as soon as they can to support the activation system natively. For applications that are not upgraded to v4.1 or activated by the user, full aircraft functionality can still be achieved by first connecting any other upgraded/activated application on each power cycle of the aircraft. For example, DJI Go could be initially connected to the aircraft, then the user could switch to the SDK based application.

In addition, v4.1 of the Mobile SDK will include support for M200, Phantom 4 Advanced, and Individual Unlock Fly Zones. Please see the release notes for more details on the updates to the Mobile SDK.

As always, the DJI Dev Team is committed to improving your developer experience. Please report any bugs or questions you have to [email protected]. We recommend that you frequently check the DJI SDK downloads page to ensure that you are always working with the latest version of the DJI SDK.

Regards,

The DJI Dev Team

 

[adiru]

It seems to me a lot of smoke ..... I am not connected to the Internet when I fly and I can cache the maps in the areas I want to fly in ahead of time, so unless I do the update I don't see the problem. Yes ... I need GPS to RTH but GPS is independent of the Internet. Like a TomTom or Garmin; .. no Internet needed. Maybe I'm missing something? If so, please point it out to me. Personally I'm getting really tired of DJi doing a new update every time someone in China get a wild hair and my having to go back on recheck all my settings when I do the update. If I don't , something I didn't expect will happen with possible bad results. I am so tired of these updates that I'm soured on anything new DJi brings out because the maintenance time to continually update their products and that is eating into my enjoyment. At this point I will not buy a Spark ... and I was really thinking seriously about it.

In new firmware versions they will use the existing RADIO transmitter on the Mavic to transmit up to a few miles your Mavic serial #, your telemetry, and broadcast that as far and wide as the signal will carry it. At all times and in real time. So that not only can your neighbors know when a drone is flying around but coupled with DJI's internal "registration list" (hence why forcing all the re-activate again) and the FAA registration list, giving police real time scanning capability to ID the actual identity of all who is up in the air remotely via UAV at any one given time.

So your Mavic will be "pinging" like a submarine trying to hunt down the Red October.


DJI lawyers used the same analogy as a car license plate. But the Toyota and Ford does not mandate/force us to get license plates, it is the state level. And the license plate is passive and merely bounces light back, whereas the Mavic transmission is active and actively transmits info out.

Toyota and Ford doesn't take it upon themselves to embed nor install the license plate on our cars at the factory nor do they sneak in our homes in the middle of the night to add a license plate after the fact without consent.

As for the "passive vs active" parallel and comparison, I'll just say that for the "license plate" analogy to fit, it would be like a visible sticker showing the DJI serial # and/or FAA registration # as a label or sticker on the Mavic itself, not a radio transmitter that broadcast real time info for miles and miles that can't be turned off. The closest electronic analogy that would fit would be a passive RFID or some other chip that is scannable for identification by a scanner within range, but one that does not in and of itself actively transmit or broadcast. In the same or similiar way, your license plate only reflects photons it doesn't emit them, and your toll road RFID chip is passive only, it never TRANSMITS anything.

DJI is going down a dangerous path

Dropbox - DJI Remote Identification Whitepaper 3-22-17.pdf

 

[Gerry65]

Where do I turn off automatic update on a iPad air 2 just got it.

I'd forgotten how to do that so I found this:
How to Enable or Disable Automatic Updates for iOS Apps
But, it turns off auto updating for all apps. I don't think there's a way to just turn it off for specific apps. Therefore, kind of a pain IMO.

 

[Kilrah]

My reading is you need to do both to avoid the restrictions as they want you to verify your account info, which it says you have do AFTER you have installed the app. In reality we won't know until after the end of the week. The email is pretty vaguely written.

If you don't update either app or firmware then neither knows about the new behavior/requirements. Might need to additionally block internet connection, or not.

So this should still work even after one falls in the trap of upgrading to the new firmware out this week?

Might need to restore a backup of the older app as well.

I'm pretty sure nothing's actually a big deal in this. BUT their communication about it has been so poor that it jsut sends everybody into fearing the worst.

 

[tkinva]

I'm in the US. I got the DJI email this morning.

I have a Mavic Pro that I bought in January. It still has the original firmware in the A/C and the R/C.

I fly with Litchi (Android) and only use DJI Go for adjustments and calibration. I'm going to stop updating the Go app. (I have auto updates turned off.)

So I have two questions:

What will happen if I maintain my current setup?

Is what DJI is doing legal?

If DJI bricks my drone or otherwise restricts its flying, I will either find a new vendor or a new hobby. I'm 78 years old and life is too short for this nonsense.

--
- - Art from the Air - -

 

[torqum]

So that not only can your neighbors know when a drone is flying around but coupled with DJI's internal "registration list" (hence why forcing all the re-activate again) and the FAA registration list, giving police real time scanning capability to ID the actual identity of all who is up in the air remotely via UAV at any one given time.

You are so full of it. If I'm flying around my neighborhood, my neighbors will most likely know about it because they can hear the **** thing, not because they will be tuned into some frequency with their special radio receivers.

Also, your local police department has no access to the FAA's registration list, nor do they have access to DJI's registration list. At most, in this hypothetical scenario, they would be able to request such information from the FAA or DJI, but that is a far cry from real time capability. You are a real loon, and frankly I'm sick of the nonsense you continuously spew on this board.

I've said it multiple times already and ill say it again. None of this even matters if you don't update the app or the firmware.

 

[adiru]

You are so full of it. If I'm flying around my neighborhood, my neighbors will most likely know about it because they can hear the **** thing, not because they will be tuned into some frequency with their special radio receivers.

Also, your local police department has no access to the FAA's registration list, nor do they have access to DJI's registration list. At most, in this hypothetical scenario, they would be able to request such information from the FAA or DJI, but that is a far cry from real time capability. You are a real loon, and frankly I'm sick of the nonsense you continuously spew on this board.

I've said it multiple times already and ill say it again. None of this even matters if you don't update the app or the firmware.

So it would appear you didn't read DJI's own whitepaper cause this is exactly their plan:

Dropbox - DJI Remote Identification Whitepaper 3-22-17.pdf

 

[Rnl]

Thanks Gerry65

 

[torqum]

So it would appear you didn't read DJI's own whitepaper cause this is exactly their plan:

Dropbox - DJI Remote Identification Whitepaper 3-22-17.pdf

I did read it, and it proves that you are indeed a loon. First of all, the white paper addresses technology that DJI controls. It does not address policy, which is a matter settled in thousands of jurisdictions around the world. In the US alone, local police do not have access to the FAA's registration database. At best, they can request this information and wait for a response from the FAA. Second, it is no longer a requirement for hobbyists to register their drone with the FAA. The most likely option police would use is to contact DJI and wait for a response. None of these options are real time, like you claimed. Again, you are full of it.

Finally, you apparently don't even know what a white paper is. All it is is a description of an idea worth considering. It is in no way a revelation of DJI's actual plans. I'm getting really sick of you.

 

[alienwarrior]

A Mavic crashed into a car recently on the Sydney Harbour Bridge and 7 out of 10 pilots here wanted blood for ruining their hobby. This is the software update that could possibly track down the owner and have him prosecuted if it was to happen again and 7 out of 10 pilots here agreed they would welcome licensing/registering/identification of some sort. You got your wish so be very careful of where you fly as prosecutions will no doubt follow.
If you fly in a red zone like Sydney Harbour expect to be identified, prosecuted and possibly have your drone confiscated - (AU is a police state)

If someone else does something stupid demand his blood.
If YOU want to do something stupid you want the freedom of anonymity to do it.
Talk about inconsistent reasoning..... sheesh!

 

[Owen Manderfield]

In new firmware versions they will use the existing RADIO transmitter on the Mavic to transmit up to a few miles your Mavic serial #, your telemetry, and broadcast that as far and wide as the signal will carry it. At all times and in real time. So that not only can your neighbors know when a drone is flying around but coupled with DJI's internal "registration list" (hence why forcing all the re-activate again) and the FAA registration list, giving police real time scanning capability to ID the actual identity of all who is up in the air remotely via UAV at any one given time.

So your Mavic will be "pinging" like a submarine trying to hunt down the Red October.


DJI lawyers used the same analogy as a car license plate. But the Toyota and Ford does not mandate/force us to get license plates, it is the state level. And the license plate is passive and merely bounces light back, whereas the Mavic transmission is active and actively transmits info out.

Toyota and Ford doesn't take it upon themselves to embed nor install the license plate on our cars at the factory nor do they sneak in our homes in the middle of the night to add a license plate after the fact without consent.

As for the "passive vs active" parallel and comparison, I'll just say that for the "license plate" analogy to fit, it would be like a visible sticker showing the DJI serial # and/or FAA registration # as a label or sticker on the Mavic itself, not a radio transmitter that broadcast real time info for miles and miles that can't be turned off. The closest electronic analogy that would fit would be a passive RFID or some other chip that is scannable for identification by a scanner within range, but one that does not in and of itself actively transmit or broadcast. In the same or similiar way, your license plate only reflects photons it doesn't emit them, and your toll road RFID chip is passive only, it never TRANSMITS anything.

DJI is going down a dangerous path

Dropbox - DJI Remote Identification Whitepaper 3-22-17.pdf

The licence plate analogy is a very good one.

The technology involved it *totally* irrelevant. It is simply a way of making the operator accountable for their actions.

And surly thats a good thing for the majority of us "safe" flyers and the hobby in general?

If the guy who wants to fly at 1,000 on the flight path to London City airport knows his details may be picked up by passing planes or maybe CAA patrols - then he probably won't risk it. After all you wouldn't drive past a speed camera doing 100mph if you know its going to catch your licence plate.

Tell the public we are all registered, insured and fully accountable might just slow down the anti-drone hysteria.

Keep shouting "I want to do whatever I want and you shouldn't stop me" really doesn't help.

 

[collins]

In new firmware versions they will use the existing RADIO transmitter on the Mavic to transmit up to a few miles your Mavic serial #, your telemetry, and broadcast that as far and wide as the signal will carry it. At all times and in real time. So that not only can your neighbors know when a drone is flying around but coupled with DJI's internal "registration list" (hence why forcing all the re-activate again) and the FAA registration list, giving police real time scanning capability to ID the actual identity of all who is up in the air remotely via UAV at any one given time.

So your Mavic will be "pinging" like a submarine trying to hunt down the Red October.


DJI lawyers used the same analogy as a car license plate. But the Toyota and Ford does not mandate/force us to get license plates, it is the state level. And the license plate is passive and merely bounces light back, whereas the Mavic transmission is active and actively transmits info out.

Toyota and Ford doesn't take it upon themselves to embed nor install the license plate on our cars at the factory nor do they sneak in our homes in the middle of the night to add a license plate after the fact without consent.

As for the "passive vs active" parallel and comparison, I'll just say that for the "license plate" analogy to fit, it would be like a visible sticker showing the DJI serial # and/or FAA registration # as a label or sticker on the Mavic itself, not a radio transmitter that broadcast real time info for miles and miles that can't be turned off. The closest electronic analogy that would fit would be a passive RFID or some other chip that is scannable for identification by a scanner within range, but one that does not in and of itself actively transmit or broadcast. In the same or similiar way, your license plate only reflects photons it doesn't emit them, and your toll road RFID chip is passive only, it never TRANSMITS anything.

DJI is going down a dangerous path

Dropbox - DJI Remote Identification Whitepaper 3-22-17.pdf

All true but 2 points.

1) DJI argues that a 'remote' drone is different from a 'car' because the 'driver' can be several miles away from its physical location. Crash a car into the White House and the police can physically arrest the 'driver' because he will be at the White House. Fly a drone into the White House from a couple of miles away and the 'driver' cannot be caught unless he is physically registered to the drone. It appears that the reason DJI want us to 'log in' with the new update is to confirm that the current 'owner/user' of the drone is the one that first registered it (and it hasnt been sold to a third party'.)

2) As you point out, car manufacturers do not require you to get a 'license plate'for a car - but 'national authorities' insist on it (everywhere). I personally think that if DJI doesnt include a 'license plate' at the manufacturers end, National Governments inevitably will. And if 'National Governments' insist on a license plate there are likely to be 2 problems for us users. 1) National Governments will insist on you acquiring a 'drivers license' to qualify for your drone license plate (so that they have the ability to take it away). You are likely to have to take a 'test' and keep it up to date (as in France). Secondly many National Governments will only give 'licenses' to their own 'Nationals' which means visitors/tourists will not be able to 'drive' their drones in the country.

Really there are effectively a lot of people on this thread who are arguing that 1) they should have the right and freedom to fly their drone wherever they like even if it is illegal and 2) they have the freedom and right to fly 'anonymously' so they cannot be held responsible for their actions.

Now all I can really say is that if you really think this position is sustainable long term either for you or the drone industry in general you are being 'heroically optimistic'.

 

[Ziggy01]

A Mavic crashed into a car recently on the Sydney Harbour Bridge and 7 out of 10 pilots here wanted blood for ruining their hobby. This is the software update that could possibly track down the owner and have him prosecuted if it was to happen again and 7 out of 10 pilots here agreed they would welcome licensing/registering/identification of some sort. You got your wish so be very careful of where you fly as prosecutions will no doubt follow.
If you fly in a red zone like Sydney Harbour expect to be identified, prosecuted and possibly have your drone confiscated - (AU is a police state)

If someone else does something stupid demand his blood.
If YOU want to do something stupid you want the freedom of anonymity to do it.
Talk about inconsistent reasoning..... sheesh!

Lol.

Am I paranoid or is this (mis)directed at me?

But yeah, if people are flying these things into bridges, cars, small dogs, etc, and depending on the level and nature of compulsory restriction, I'm not against it.

 

[RavenStorm]

So I still run on .400 but not sure how to check the version on Go 4 App .. I still don't understand, if I don't upgrade then I can't fly the drone I paid for?

 

[Ziggy01]

The licence plate analogy is a very good one.
Tell the public we are all registered, insured and fully accountable might just slow down the anti-drone hysteria.

Keep shouting "I want to do whatever I want and you shouldn't stop me" really doesn't help.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[collins]

Keep shouting "I want to do whatever I want and you shouldn't stop me" really doesn't help.

Yes. It is pretty simple really. Either someone like DJI introduces self-regulation into this industry the 'soft' way or the Government will introduce regulation the hard way.

Why would I rather DJI regulations than Government? Very simple. DJI has a 'sales and profit' 'incentive' to introduce regulation that either benefits the consumer (of drones) or does them 'least harm'. The Government has no such incentive - it probably doesnt give a flying **** about whether anyone can fly a drone or not and to the extent it has a 'democratic' incentive it will place the 'wishes of the majority' (who do not own drones) well above the wishes of the 'minority' (who do).