Drones in private airspace? Is private airspace even a thing?

[51 Drones]

It has been sooo long since I’ve posted here! I missed you guys! This should be an interesting discussion. It hasn’t been talked about in a while, so I decided to make a video about it. What are your thoughts?

 

[Tufargon]

Welcome back 51 Drones and thanks for the video.

 

[Eagle Eye 62]

It has been sooo long since I’ve posted here! I missed you guys! This should be an interesting discussion. It hasn’t been talked about in a while, so I decided to make a video about it. What are your thoughts?

Thanks Russ, I always enjoy your videos. Great to have you back in the forum!

 

[wardtom084]

Good video. Had one complaint about my flying from one person so I wonder what his problem really is. The sheriff told him there was not anything he could do about it. I have demonstrated my drone to all of the officers now and they tell me they could care less about the law as they are not interested in it. More important things going on.

 

[Trippp]

I would think that if you are transiting a persons private property, on a one time basis, that person should have no claim of trespassing, or voyeurism, etc., and probably wouldn't notice or mind. If you're hovering over their property, then that's a reasonable claim, denying one's privacy. Thanks for the clarification, I'll be interested in seeing other's reaction to your post. T

 

[51 Drones]

Good video. Had one complaint about my flying from one person so I wonder what his problem really is. The sheriff told him there was not anything he could do about it. I have demonstrated my drone to all of the officers now and they tell me they could care less about the law as they are not interested in it. More important things going on.

Exactly!

 

[JoelP]

Thanks for your very helpful video. This brings up a question for me. I ride my bike on a trail that is part of the County of Santa Clara,CA park system. Adjacent to that trail is an airfield owned by the AMA. The County of Santa Clara has restricted drone flights over their trail unless by permit. They have an egregiously high fee to fly on the trail which is priced somewhat lower for a certified nonprofit organizations which is still ridiculously expensive. While the AMA has restricted drone flights from some of their fields there is no drone restriction at this particular field.

I am a part 107 pilot. Is there any reason I cannot launch from the AMA field which is not part of the county park and fly as a hobbyist wherever I want over the county trail ride in class G airspace without paying the ridiculous permit fee? It is not my intention to fly over people or spy on anyone, just to film myself and my friends riding our bikes from ahead, behind or to the side? There is no intent to monetize these recordings.

Thanks in advance for considering my question.

 

[Vic Moss]

I would think that if you are transiting a persons private property, on a one time basis, that person should have no claim of trespassing, or voyeurism, etc., and probably wouldn't notice or mind. If you're hovering over their property, then that's a reasonable claim, denying one's privacy.

SCOTUS has ruled numerous times there is no "reasonable expectation of privacy" from anything visible from the air. We have full rights to the airspace above property, and I take full advantage of that right. Anyone that states otherwise doesn't understand privacy rights.

We must protect our rights or we lose them. We have to be able to hover over someone else's property in order to take the imagery of adjoining property, or to get the angle we want or need for a photo or video.

I'm a huge proponent of the concept of "fly friendly", but property owners have no right to claim privacy violation simply because we're hovering over their land. There is zero reasonable claim.

Thanks for the clarification, I'll be interested in seeing other's reaction to your post. T

 

[Vic Moss]

Very good video Russ, and thank you for the VERY good interpretation of Causby. So many people are completely ignorant of that rule.

And in the recent RDQ case ruling, the judges did mention that that drones make "navigable airspace" from the ground up.

Well done, and thank you for putting this out. Perfectly explained.

Won't help the hardcore paranoids.

As far as cities and states attempting to regulate airspace, many still do, but they lose when cited.

 

[BigAl07]

Thanks for your very helpful video. This brings up a question for me. I ride my bike on a trail that is part of the County of Santa Clara,CA park system. Adjacent to that trail is an airfield owned by the AMA. The County of Santa Clara has restricted drone flights over their trail unless by permit. They have an egregiously high fee to fly on the trail which is priced somewhat lower for a certified nonprofit organizations which is still ridiculously expensive. While the AMA has restricted drone flights from some of their fields there is no drone restriction at this particular field.

I am a part 107 pilot. Is there any reason I cannot launch from the AMA field which is not part of the county park and fly as a hobbyist wherever I want over the county trail ride in class G airspace without paying the ridiculous permit fee? It is not my intention to fly over people or spy on anyone, just to film myself and my friends riding our bikes from ahead, behind or to the side? There is no intent to monetize these recordings.

Thanks in advance for considering my question.

Yes that field is owned/maintained by an AMA club. They get to say what you can or can NOT do from that property. I highly doubt they would allow a non-club member have access to their property and doing so without permission would be trespassing.

Now if you get permission to fly from "Said" property, and you obey ALL other pertinent FAA rules & regulations then you "should" be good to go. Keep in mind I'm not an Aviation Attorney and I did NOT stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Use this information as you see fit but it is NOT legal advice. I'm just your average Keyboard Warrior with a few decades of UAS operations under my belt.

 

[51 Drones]

Thanks for your very helpful video. This brings up a question for me. I ride my bike on a trail that is part of the County of Santa Clara,CA park system. Adjacent to that trail is an airfield owned by the AMA. The County of Santa Clara has restricted drone flights over their trail unless by permit. They have an egregiously high fee to fly on the trail which is priced somewhat lower for a certified nonprofit organizations which is still ridiculously expensive. While the AMA has restricted drone flights from some of their fields there is no drone restriction at this particular field.

I am a part 107 pilot. Is there any reason I cannot launch from the AMA field which is not part of the county park and fly as a hobbyist wherever I want over the county trail ride in class G airspace without paying the ridiculous permit fee? It is not my intention to fly over people or spy on anyone, just to film myself and my friends riding our bikes from ahead, behind or to the side? There is no intent to monetize these recordings.

Thanks in advance for considering my question.

You will most likely antagonize any official that may be aware of your flight, but you are within your right to do as you suggest. They can not regulate overflight. Period.

 

[Lets Fly]

We have to be able to hover over someone else's property in order to take the imagery of adjoining property, or to get the angle we want or need for a photo or video.

Exactly.

 

[Dbez1]

Most of us know the law, especially 107 pilots, but there is also common courtesy and common sense involved. I make it a habit to avoid flying over swimming pools etc. If, however, a landowner is just being a jerk for no reason, I’m less likely to cave in to his/her illegal whims.

 

[dart106]

It has been sooo long since I’ve posted here! I missed you guys! This should be an interesting discussion. It hasn’t been talked about in a while, so I decided to make a video about it. What are your thoughts?

Just like the first Orville and Wilbur flight, good judgement applies. The military flying repeatedly at an altitude of 83’ over the chicken farm, was poor judgement and has resulted in the grossly inaccurate ”83’ restriction” that is floating about in the rumor mill, not to mention the court case. Pilots of all types of aircraft get themselves in trouble when demonstrating poor judgement. The more blatant ones that cause serious injury, death, national media attention, etc, result in more rules and regulation from bureaucratic entities (mainly FAA) in an effort to prevent poor judgement from happening again. Most of us realize that’s mission impossible.

I live in a gated community. When flying from my yard into “my airspace” I make every effort when flying out of “my airspace” to transit above common property (streets, recreation areas, etc and not above people) going to other locations.

Bottom line: Humor (with a little sarcasm) Alert - We should all be safe and compliant as long as we fly above 83’ over chicken farms.

Better yet: exercise sound judgement and common courtesy.

 

[Smooth Rhythm]

It has been sooo long since I’ve posted here! I missed you guys! This should be an interesting discussion. It hasn’t been talked about in a while, so I decided to make a video about it. What are your thoughts?

Thanks, Russ. Very much enjoyed your well researched video. It is an excellent summary of the current law on that elusive “private” air space above one’s property versus “federal“ airspace as regulated by the FAA. Your discussion of Causby (United States v. Causby, 328 U.S. 256 (1946)) was very informative for anyone interested in “navigable airspace” and easements to such space. [Interested flyers may find it useful also to review the Air Commerce Act of 1926 (49 U.S.C. § 171), and the Civil Aeronautics Act of 1938 (49 U.S.C. § 401).

 

[lookout]

Just like the first Orville and Wilbur flight, good judgement applies. The military flying repeatedly at an altitude of 83’ over the chicken farm, was poor judgement and has resulted in the grossly inaccurate ”83’ restriction” that is floating about in the rumor mill, not to mention the court case. Pilots of all types of aircraft get themselves in trouble when demonstrating poor judgement. The more blatant ones that cause serious injury, death, national media attention, etc, result in more rules and regulation from bureaucratic entities (mainly FAA) in an effort to prevent poor judgement from happening again. Most of us realize that’s mission impossible.

I live in a gated community. When flying from my yard into “my airspace” I make every effort when flying out of “my airspace” to transit above common property (streets, recreation areas, etc and not above people) going to other locations.

Bottom line: Humor (with a little sarcasm) Alert - We should all be safe and compliant as long as we fly above 83’ over chicken farms.

Better yet: exercise sound judgement and common courtesy.

Gated community? Isn't that a place that most people seemed to have flown the coop? Get me out of here!

 

[spsphotos]

I would think that if you are transiting a persons private property, on a one time basis, that person should have no claim of trespassing, or voyeurism, etc., and probably wouldn't notice or mind. If you're hovering over their property, then that's a reasonable claim, denying one's privacy. Thanks for the clarification, I'll be interested in seeing other's reaction to your post. T

Only if you do it consistently. Nothing to do with denying privacy. If you were to hover and point the camera into their windows that would be different. You can't trespass on airspace as it's an easement.

 

[wardtom084]

I just googled no fly zone over your house. There is one video saying you can create a no fly zone over your house. I tried to post the video but it wants to go to the google link. Let's see what happens....https://www.google.com/search?q=create+a+no+fly+zone+over+your+house&oq=create+a+no+fly+zone+over+your+house&aqs=chrome..69i57j33i160i395.14521j1j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#kpvalbx=_2vpbY8HVI9yzkvQPw4umoAo_31 it works with a copy and paste

 

[lookout]

I just googled no fly zone over your house. There is one video saying you can create a no fly zone over your house. I tried to post the video but it wants to go to the google link. Let's see what happens....https://www.google.com/search?q=create+a+no+fly+zone+over+your+house&oq=create+a+no+fly+zone+over+your+house&aqs=chrome..69i57j33i160i395.14521j1j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#kpvalbx=_2vpbY8HVI9yzkvQPw4umoAo_31 it works with a copy and paste

The op does mention something about that in the video, under certain verifiable circumstances where you might have a case. But for the most part it is navigable airspace.

 

[Vic Moss]

I just googled no fly zone over your house. There is one video saying you can create a no fly zone over your house. I tried to post the video but it wants to go to the google link. Let's see what happens....https://www.google.com/search?q=create+a+no+fly+zone+over+your+house&oq=create+a+no+fly+zone+over+your+house&aqs=chrome..69i57j33i160i395.14521j1j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#kpvalbx=_2vpbY8HVI9yzkvQPw4umoAo_31 it works with a copy and paste

www.noflyzone.rog was an abject failure, and started by the founders of Airmap. Ben Marcus started NoFlyZone around 2015, and it never went anywhere.

That's one of the issues about Airmap before it was purchased by Drone Up.

So no, NoFlyZone never went anywhere. You get an error page if you try and go there.

There is no legal way for private individuals to make their property a No Fly Zone. There is going to be an NPRM later this year about actually implementing Section 2209(b)(1)(C) of the 2018 FAA Reauthorization Act. That will be the method for the US Government to designate critical infrastructure for No Fly Zones. Stay tuned for more info once that's out.