FAA Drone ID Proposal:

[Phochief]

I believe the diagram on the right is all about only being able to fly in a "drone park" or AMA site because your drone/RC has neither internet connectivity or direct broadcast capability. Am I right?

yes

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

That's part of the problem with many of the articles and YT videos etc. They have focused on the capability requirement to be able to communicate via the internet as well as direct radio broadcast, but either not mentioned that the operational requirement is only to do so when an internet connection is available, or actually mis-stated that it must always do that.

Trouble is, that's an FAA diagram . . . off their website !!
They should add a notation about being ok to not have the connectivity for standard remote ID drone where away from such service.

I believe the diagram on the right is all about only being able to fly in a "drone park" or AMA site because your drone/RC has neither internet connectivity or direct broadcast capability. Am I right?

Yep. Or some other such place where the activities are permitted.

 

[Phochief]

Trouble is, that's an FAA diagram . . . off their website !!
They should add a notation about being ok to not have the connectivity for standard remote ID drone where away from such service.

I think that for Standard ID you have to be connected either via directly with the internet -or- from the drone's broadcast radio. If you can't connect directly to the internet through WiFi or your cellphone, then it's up to your drone's broadcast to connect and send User ID data. I read the whole NPRM and checked again on this, page 22 "In-flight loss of broadcast capability:
A person manipulating the flight controls of a standard remote identification UAS that can no longer broadcast the message elements would have to land as soon as practicable."

 

[strdr]

Toy helicopter slices off top of man’s head

A Queens teenager’s obsession with high-powered model helicopters ended in gruesome death yesterday, when one of his beloved toy whirlybirds spun out of control in a Brooklyn park and scalped him, …

nypost.com

A remote ID wouldn't not have helped that man. In fact, NONE of the rules were broken and he still died. Remote ID's do not mitigate risk. Remote ID's provide an avenue for prosecution AFTER an accident has occured. This is all simply about clearing the airspace below 400' of hobbyists so that commercial drone delivery can begin. A drone hobbyist who is following the current FAA rules can take action to avoid a collision, a delivery drone cannot do that unless remote ID system is in place. The only aircraft in danger from drones are those that are taking off and landing (because they go through the 400' airspace from the ground) and helicopters. Drones shouldn't be operated near an airport and there listings of the altitude limits approaching the NFZ of the airport proper. So what we have is 400' airspace that is not used by anything except infrequent helicopters. What is the problem? Oh Jeff Bezos wants to sell more stuff.

 

[Phochief]

But as I believe @sar104 previously pointed out and by the wording "UAS that can no longer broadcast the message elements". The key word is "broadcast". There is no requirement for there to be an actual connection is there?

Exactly....ambiguous dilemma that I can't find an answer for in the NPRM. If you are broadcasting your User ID data as required but it's not being received, can you continue flying? I don't know the answer to this one but it would be a good question in comments to the FAA to clarify.

 

[sar104]

Trouble is, that's an FAA diagram . . . off their website !!
They should add a notation about being ok to not have the connectivity for standard remote ID drone where away from such service.

Yes - the diagram shows the capability requirements, not the operational requirements. It could certainly be clearer.

 

[Bob4131]

I have not read the 300+ page proposal but I just want to understand the FAA thinking before forming an opinion. I would appreciate comments from people that understand this proposal.
1) If the UAS is connected to the internet then commerical operators will be able to know where other drones are real time and avoid them when delivering your Amazon package. Will this analysis of other drone locations be required for certain operations? Operations BVLOS for example?
2) If no internet connection exists, then the UAS should broadcast it's remote ID. Assuming no FAA tower / receiver - what does this achieve? Will Amazon drones have remote ID receivers on board?
3) Will the FAA be building towers in rural areas that currently do not have cell towers? That seems incredibly expensive for a very low return on improved safety. (I think if there is a tower then the UAS has internet - I am confused where the FAA would put receivers to receive the remote ID broadcast.
4) In reading the comments here, I think there is confusion regarding the FAA intent. Is it to provide a safer airspace in real time or provide an after the fact system to analyze violations or perhaps to even send out automated fines for violations?
5) Is there any FAA discussion in this proposal of providing manned aircraft locations to UAS operators using ABS information? I think an "enhanced real time FlightAware like app" would be helpful to UAS operators to be better aware of their immediate airspace.
6) Finally is there any discussion on regulations that will be put in place to allow BVLOS operations? Today they seem to be customized waivers issued on a case by case situation.

Thanks for your feedback!

 

[sar104]

I think that for Standard ID you have to be connected either via directly with the internet -or- from the drone's broadcast radio. If you can't connect directly to the internet through WiFi or your cellphone, then it's up to your drone's broadcast to connect and send User ID data. I read the whole NPRM and checked again on this, page 22 "In-flight loss of broadcast capability:
A person manipulating the flight controls of a standard remote identification UAS that can no longer broadcast the message elements would have to land as soon as practicable."

Close - but it's not either/or. For SRID the aircraft must always broadcast via radio, and must also transmit via the internet to a USS if a connection is available.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

I think that for Standard ID you have to be connected either via directly with the internet -or- from the drone's broadcast radio. If you can't connect directly to the internet through WiFi or your cellphone, then it's up to your drone's broadcast to connect and send User ID data. I read the whole NPRM and checked again on this, page 22 "In-flight loss of broadcast capability:
A person manipulating the flight controls of a standard remote identification UAS that can no longer broadcast the message elements would have to land as soon as practicable."

Thanks for taking the time to read that info.
I'm obviously a World away from you there in the US, but am interested in US regulations etc . . . eventually we (and other such countries) will probably see out GOVCOs take similar lines, our airspace regulators would be watching what FAA are doing for sure.

That quoted info above is in direct conflict with what sar has been posting "If the internet is unavailable at takeoff, the standard remote identification UAS would only be required to broadcast the message elements directly from the unmanned aircraft. "
But it might only apply if you start a flight with connection / direct braodcast, and simply lose connection.

Maybe then you land, restart flight without connection, as long as your drone then broadcasts ?

If you all were going to be lumped into the second (middle) diagam in your post #514, well that 400' bubble would be very dissappointing !!
(I don't THINK that is the intentions, reading later posts since your reply . . . boy, this is a hard thread to keep up with, but worth reading in full, all 500+ so far !!).

Let's hope common sense prevails, but with the commercial interests probably at the forefront of the need for this tech, it will probably be the hobbyist that gets knobbled (restricted more).

 

[sar104]

Exactly....ambiguous dilemma that I can't find an answer for in the NPRM. If you are broadcasting your User ID data as required but it's not being received, can you continue flying? I don't know the answer to this one but it would be a good question in comments to the FAA to clarify.

Why is this confusing? The operational requirement is to transmit (just like ADS-B). There is no operational requirement for there to be a station receiving (just like ADS-B), and the sUAS won't even know if anything is receiving - it's a one-way broadcast.

 

[Phochief]

Close - but it's not either/or. For SRID the aircraft must always broadcast via radio, and must also transmit via the internet to a USS if a connection is available.

Yep....you're correct. It would only be -or- if there's no internet connection, but yes, the aircraft must still be broadcasting in any case.

 

[sar104]

Thanks for taking the time to read that info.
I'm obviously a World away from you there in the US, but am interested in US regulations etc . . . eventually we (and other such countries) will probably see out GOVCOs take similar lines, our airspace regulators would be watching what FAA are doing for sure.

That quoted info above is in direct conflict with what sar has been posting "If the internet is unavailable at takeoff, the standard remote identification UAS would only be required to broadcast the message elements directly from the unmanned aircraft. "
But it might only apply if you start a flight with connection / direct braodcast, and simply lose connection.

Maybe then you land, restart flight without connection, as long as your drone then broadcasts ?

If you all were going to be lumped into the second (middle) diagam in your post #514, well that 400' bubble would be very dissappointing !!
(I don't THINK that is the intentions, reading later posts since your reply . . . boy, this is a hard thread to keep up with, but worth reading in full, all 500+ so far !!).

Let's hope common sense prevails, but with the commercial interests probably at the forefront of the need for this tech, it will probably be the hobbyist that gets knobbled (restricted more).

The case of internet connection being lost during flight is explicitly addressed in the proposal - as long as the aircraft is broadcasting it is still compliant.

 

[Phochief]

Why is this confusing? The operational requirement is to transmit (just like ADS-B). There is no operational requirement for there to be a station receiving (just like ADS-B), and the sUAS won't even know if anything is receiving - it's a one-way broadcast.

I agree and think you're probably correct that just broadcasting is probably sufficient, but I'm leaving room for the FAA's possible change of requirements. If the drone is not trackable by any USS, it would be invisible to ATC or other aircraft (other than visually). The FAA might (I stress might) make receiving the broadcast a requirement. Loss of signal, ping, could mean the pilot is required to discontinue the flight. Sorry, just thinking out loud with this one.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

The case of internet connection being lost during flight is explicitly addressed in the proposal - as long as the aircraft is broadcasting it is still compliant.

Thanks to you too sar for taking time to read the proposal, then explaining your findings here.
(Not to mention your patience.)

 

[sar104]

I agree and think you're probably correct that just broadcasting is probably sufficient, but I'm leaving room for the FAA's possible change of requirements. If the drone is not trackable by any USS, it would be invisible to ATC or other aircraft (other that visually). The FAA might (I stress might) make receiving the broadcast a requirement. Loss of signal, ping, could mean the pilot is required to discontinue the flight. Sorry, just thinking out loud with this one.

The receiving network seems like it is still in early concept stage, but I would expect a network of stations, initially at least around airports and other sensitive/high traffic locations. They will put them where they are most needed.

 

[Phochief]

The receiving network seems like it is still in early concept stage, but I would expect a network of stations, initially at least around airports and other sensitive/high traffic locations. They will put them where they are most needed.

Although the ADS-B radio systems was ruled out for this UAS proposal, perhaps something similar, but on different frequencies, but same towers. There are 500 ADS-B towers out there now, apparently covering most of the U.S. Also, I just read that ADS-B must be installed on all aircraft beginning in 2020 - an expensive addition of equipment.

 

[BigAl07]

Although the ADS-B radio systems was ruled out for this UAS proposal, perhaps something similar, but on different frequencies, but same towers. There are 500 ADS-B towers out there now, apparently covering most of the U.S. Also, I just read that ADS-B must be installed on all aircraft beginning in 2020 - an expensive addition of equipment.

All aircraft operating in airspace that requires Mode-C transponder not all aircraft. There's a big difference my friend.

 

[Prmath]

This guy breaks down the proposal, urges all recreational pilots to make comments to the FAA proposal, because he say these were drafted by commercial UAS interest without ANY input from recreational pilots.

He also says we'll likely have to pay fees or subscriptions to Remote ID Service Providers so that they can cover operating costs as well as make profits.

This is All about the feds greed for money. They see the millions of drones and are now wanting to cash in. JUST like they tried with the internet.
( Mod Removed Remark )

 

[Terry63]

I agree and think you're probably correct that just broadcasting is probably sufficient, but I'm leaving room for the FAA's possible change of requirements. If the drone is not trackable by any USS, it would be invisible to ATC or other aircraft (other than visually). The FAA might (I stress might) make receiving the broadcast a requirement. Loss of signal, ping, could mean the pilot is required to discontinue the flight. Sorry, just thinking out loud with this one.

If receiving the Broadcast becomes a requirement then the drone would have to be able receive a broadcast from the source it broadcast to wouldn't it. Otherwise how would it know to terminate the flight if it took off without an internet connection.

 

[sar104]

Although the ADS-B radio systems was ruled out for this UAS proposal, perhaps something similar, but on different frequencies, but same towers. There are 500 ADS-B towers out there now, apparently covering most of the U.S. Also, I just read that ADS-B must be installed on all aircraft beginning in 2020 - an expensive addition of equipment.

They could use those towers. Or cell phone towers.