Flying by screen advice.

[Welsh m4vic]

As a novice i am in need to pick your brains of experience on flying by screen when your unit is out of sight. We have many castles waterfalls and cliffs which i have began to venture too try and shoot. Problem being is that i get disorientated flying by screen, even to the point of when i flyover waterfalls the difference in altitude spins me out (lol wimp).
Loads more questions but any advice would be great.

 

[scro]

I hope you're aware that in the UK you legally need to be able to see your drone always at every point in the flight - called maintaining VLOS (visual line of sight). You shouldn't be planning a flight that means your drone is out of sight. Perhaps you can position yourself in a different location so that you can see the drone and still get the shots and viewpoints you were after?

This rule is in place because, as you've noticed, it can be difficult to really understand what is happening around the drone when all you have is a video feed on a screen to look at.

Here's the full drone code, which is worth a read: The Drone and Model Aircraft Code | UK Civil Aviation Authority

Stay safe and have fun flying! ?

 

[Welsh m4vic]

Thanks for that, I did not know. That's why I ask you guys who do. I should have checked. Thanks for the help

 

[scro]

Happy to help ?

I'm not sure what drone you have, but just wanted to point out, too, that you need to have an operator ID since it has a camera (doesn't matter how much it weighs). This ID needs to be written on your drone somewhere (a bit like a car number plate). The link to the drone code above explains this all more clearly. You'll need to do an online test and pay £9 to get all the IDs you need. The test is fairly easy to pass once you know the basic rules for drones (eg, restricted areas around airports, max altitudes, VLOS etc)

Apologies if you've already done all this... however, it's surprising how many people are unaware of the current requirements

 

[Welsh m4vic]

No need to apologise, and I put my hands up for being ignorant to that. I will do the test for everyone's sake I fly a mini2, simply for family use as we hike a lot.
Thanks once again, and I apologise for my ignorance.

 

[DoomMeister]

No need to apologise, and I put my hands up for being ignorant to that. I will do the test for everyone's sake I fly a mini2, simply for family use as we hike a lot.
Thanks once again, and I apologise for my ignorance.

The places that sell them should include information about regulations for the buyer’s area and require an acknowledgement from the buyer that they are aware of those rules. It would make more people aware that there are regulations involved with the use of a drone.

 

[scro]

I, too, think that places selling drones should be doing more to help people understand the rules and regs. Would anybody expect a car sales to freely sell cars to anyone without ensuring the car was registered and the buyer was old enough to drive and had a licence/insurance/tax?

@Welsh m4vic You're far from alone, so don't feel bad ? I've met several people out and about with drones who were unaware of the current rules too - and I don't meet very many people with drones when I'm out and about.

 

[KingRat]

In response to your initial question about using the on screen information - because the rest has already been taken care of - the view you get is as if you were sat in the cockpit looking forward, the way the camera is pointing. You will soon find out that when you get on the limit of vision, it is a small speck in the sky, you glance down at the screen to frame the shot and look back up and it is difficult to spot again. Your eyes will always pick up MOVEMENT more easily than a static object - so a small movement in one direction is often enough to catch your eye, especially as you have a rough idea of where it is and so you will be looking in the general direction.

Obstructions: your aircraft will disappear faster from sight when the background is anything but plain sea or sky. Trees, cliffs/rocks, hills... it will camouflage itself very quickly against such backgrounds. You run the risk of flying into an obstruction if you cannot see your drone and it's relationship with the general background. In this situation I find it often helps to climb straight up - nature has very few straight lines, even tree trunks are not 'straight' then are fairly straight but they ar not iron bar straight. So the straight line of the drone going up does show up and gets you back in vision, and then you find you have to strain your eyes to keep it seperated from the background - this is where bright LED strobes help enormously. They aren't expensive, they only weigh a couple of grams but they do give you the opportunity to pick up where your drone is... then movement of the stick will tell you which way it is pointing, because you can see the bright light move - if you move it 'right' on your stick but it goes left, you know it is looking at you not away from you - it has gone right, but you are looking at the wrong end of it! The screen view shoud also give you clue, because of what you are looking at on the screen and what you can see from where you are stood. If the view is the same, it is looking the same way you are....

Castle - type situation. If you want to fly round the back of the castle and therefore 'out of sight'.. walk round with the drone, so you get the other side, but can still see the drone. If there is a cliff, get to the edge of the cliff so you can see across to the drone.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

Another thing to watch for if you do duck out of VLOS for a brief time to film a waterfall, or around a corner of a valley etc, is as good as Occusync is on the mini2, having something between you (your controller) and the drone will reduce signal between the two.

If there's enough interference to cause a loss of signal, it will initiate a failsafe RTH (all being set per flight by you to suit the chosen flight plan).
If you are in a bad spot for any of the aircraft movement in RTH mode, it can spell the end for the aircraft.

Interference can be in the form of distance, foliage (denser is as good as a brick wall), a brick wall ? , building(s), a valley bend, ridgeline, rocks, other solid mother earth.
Low height above ground level can accentuate signal loss.

 

[scro]

Good advice from @KingRat and @MAvic_South_Oz there. Another thing to add, is get familiar with the map in the bottom left corner of the screen. You can expand it to a small window, or full screen. That shows your position and the drone's position/heading and can help get you oriented. I find I can maintain fairly good VLOS for several hundred meters, but can very easily "lose" the drone in plain sight when I look down at the screen to change some settings or check framing for some shots. Some vertical, or side to side movement usually allows me to find it again, but there have been some occasions where I've had to fly back towards myself a considerable distance before I pick up the drone again. That's where the map view is handy

I find judging distance once the drone is anything more than 30-50m away can be quite challenging as our depth perception only really works for relatively close objects. Moving the drone side to side and watching the perspective change on the live feed can help in this instance, as can panning up and down with the gimbal to -90deg to see what is directly below the drone. Nothing beats being physically close to the drone when you are flying in close proximity to obstacles.

 

[Welsh m4vic]

All points taken in and agree with, especially having to register for use. i had read up on the legalities, but obviously not enough. I came across another drone operator the other weekend, who was flying over youngsters swimming at the base of a waterfall. I did mention this and his reply was short and not very sweet. I did not fly at that falls, i walked up the valley further to another falls where there was no one around apart from my family.
I know what you mean when you look down at the screen and then realise you have lost visual of the drone, cheek clenching time. i flew up a local canal the other day and under a small bridge, i had the drone in view all times, but when i played back i realised how close i was to the side of the bridge.
Thanks again, and i do appreciate the wrist slap in pointing out my mistake, and look forward to reading more of your posts, and learning how to post media on here.

 

[MikeyST1957]

I have the same experience all the time. Quick glance down at my screen map, look up and ive lost it.
stomach clench
Thinking of a strobe

I havetrouble with distance perspective Even in the small football size field I practice in There are some large light towers at the other end. I want to go out , lower to the ground, circle them , and come back

but I get even 50 yards away from me and I can’t tell if I’m even with the poles, or I’m past them. Or I’m just before them.
the drone is just too small

happens even if I want to practice going around small trees.
50 yards away and I can’t tell if I’ve safely passed them

 

[scro]

According to this site our stereoscopic depth perception only really works well up to distances of around 18ft (5.4m) - seems a little bit short to me. Beyond that and our brains start relying increasingly on relative size and motion to judge depth. With the drone hovering 50m away from me and near a tree I can see it fairly clearly, but really can't tell if it is in front of, beside, or beyond the tree. Even professional commercial pilots can overestimate their depth perception abilities, and mistakenly report another aircraft that is 2 miles away as a "drone". When the pilot's altitude/speed and capabilities of the best consumer drones are considered many reported alleged close drone passes are extremely unlikely to have actually been a drone, and often tally with other tracked manned flights in the area. At the distances involved a distant, fast moving large object looks identical to a small close slower moving object.

When I fly I try to have a reasonable idea of what course I'll be taking, what I'll be flying over, and what landmarks I can use as reference via the live video feed, live map and VLOS. If I want to get a certain framing or view then a bit of planning, and scout flights really helps. In my head I always try to picture where the drone is, and where it's moving towards in case I lose VLOS. Despite that I still get moments where I look down, frame and snap a shot and then... ohh.. "fiddlesticks" where is the drone... I can hear it out there somewhere but can't pick it out from the scenery. Bright coloured stickers/skins help much less than you'd expect, especially when silhouetted against the sky. A strobe is much more effective, but bright sunlight can limit how effective it is. There are decent, bright strobes available that won't push the Mini2 over the 250g threshold. I've got a mini1 which is too close to 250g to be able to fit a strobe and still fly it in the A1 category.

@Welsh m4vic it wasn't really meant as a "wrist slap" or any harsh/condescending criticism, rather just not wanting you to unwittingly get yourself into trouble. Your attitude and response is great, and the drone community could do with more people like this ?. Getting it right is neither hard, time consuming or expensive.

 

[Welsh m4vic]

Totally agree, best do it right first as last.

 

[jeaves]

You're not the first to lose sight of your drone and you will not be the last. I have difficulty keeping mine in sight if the sky is totally blue without any clouds. The other day I lost mine for a few seconds, I took a deep breath and looked at my screen. The triangle tells me which way the camera is pointing, so turned the camera so it was pointing away from me and started to bring it in to about 100 feet, Then I lowered it to about 100 feet, at which point I can see and hear it.
If you lose sight, don't panic, most of us have at some point.

 

[old man mavic]

@Welsh m4vic in respect of your post #11 in this thread ,then its only the 250g or less weight of drone that can actually fly over people, as long as the person does not do so ,in a manner that could endanger them ,the flight restrictions for the mini are minimal, and although this can be good for responsible flyers, it also means that irresponsible drone flyers can by their actions give the hobby a bad name ,i firmly believe that a drone should not be able to be purchased ,until the prospective buyer has obtained an operator ID and done the Flyer ID test ,and therefore has demonstrated a knowledge of the rules and regulations ,this comment is in no way intended to be rude to you personally
i know my opinions will not be appreciated by everyone on this forum ,but i will continue to push for safe and responsible drone flying ,so this hobby can develop and continue to grow for many years to come

 

[Welsh m4vic]

Respect your views old man, I am to old and ugly to take offence. I agree wholey and will move on the learning curve.
Take care.

 

[Dale D]

I hope you're aware that in the UK you legally need to be able to see your drone always at every point in the flight - called maintaining VLOS (visual line of sight). You shouldn't be planning a flight that means your drone is out of sight. Perhaps you can position yourself in a different location so that you can see the drone and still get the shots and viewpoints you were after?

This rule is in place because, as you've noticed, it can be difficult to really understand what is happening around the drone when all you have is a video feed on a screen to look at.

Here's the full drone code, which is worth a read: The Drone and Model Aircraft Code | UK Civil Aviation Authority

Stay safe and have fun flying! ?

I would venture to say, by watching the videos submitted on this forum, that is it virtually impossible to fly by visual line of sight in many of the films where the pilot goes very far, or around mountains and valleys. We all pay lip service to it and pretend we are behaving ourselves. I know that we all try very hardly to keep the drone in line of vision at all times, but it is really difficult if you are going to glance quickly at your screen.

 

[apeel]

Another point to note about VLOS (at least here in the USA which I 'assume' is the same in the UK), VLOS does not only mean 'seeing' your drone, but also having 'spacial awareness', meaning that you can see what direction it is heading and any dangers that may be around the drone where you are flying. I mention this as you talk about becoming disoriented. Even if you can see the drone, you may not be able to determine what direction it is headed, in which case you are also not flying VLOS.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

I would venture to say, by watching the videos submitted on this forum, that is it virtually impossible to fly by visual line of sight in many of the films where the pilot goes very far, or around mountains and valleys. We all pay lip service to it and pretend we are behaving ourselves. I know that we all try very hardly to keep the drone in line of vision at all times, but it is really difficult if you are going to glance quickly at your screen.

Agree wholeheartedly.
Have always said most of us fly not watching the drone at all, because filming / composing photographs requires almost complete attention to the device screen (FPV) view, most especially for filming.
Keeping within VLOS is the best to aim for, but as far as watching the aircraft out to say 400m or 500m, even with strobes it's not easy with daylight and sky / ground contrasts to see the location and orientation of the drone.