Full ATTI Mode?

[Bill Dunnuck]

The answer is simple. Imagine how many claims that are currently filed using their products with GPS then imagine the number of claims they would have with those choosing to fly in Atti mode with little or no flight experience in Atti mode.

 

[canadian drone videos]

Phantom 3 Pro, consumer drone, RTH and factory ATTI.

They removed ATTI from the Mavic probably (as mentioned above in this thread) it was a headache for them, even though they were never really 'liable'.

The M2P and M3 seem to be marketed to me, a photographer who wants a camera in the sky. But I'm not enterprise / SAR, so I can't afford models above those. But I'm a consumer and I know what I'm doing in respect to ATTI.

Chris

A headache to them, yes, that’s probably a lot to do with it. Sure you and I know what we’re doing, but the M3 has a feel of a drone made for a novice… that will also keep the experienced pilot happy. It’s exactly what to expect.

 

[Ralph thompson]

As one who has flown drones since 2012 & regularly produce commercial video, I see very little benefit to ATTI mode, except as said above, for training. The best mode for capturing smooth video is TRIPOD mode where I can do smooth movements in tight situations, watching the screen with occasional glance at the drone to avoid trees. i don’t care about a jolt at the beginning or end since my video is alway trimmed & colour corrected in post. I have ATTI on a M2ED & I1P & never use it. I’m lobbying DJI to implement Tripod mode & not ATTI mode.

 

[Not A Speck Of Cereal]

Chris, that's pretty interesting. Doing a quick check just now, on the latest version of Assistant that is compatible with the M3 (I'm using the mac version v2.1.8) it seems the prior method/hack of entering the developer menu has been locked down. If you figure out a way, please let us know.

Thank for trying Kodiak

Even with the M2P, one had to use an older version. The last version for the past couple of years would not work even on that model.

• DJI Assistant 2 v2.0.12 is the most recent version I have (I see a v2.1.8 out on the DJI site)
• DJI Assistant 2 v1.1.12 is the last version that the ATTI debug config works with (I don't think you'll find this on the DJI site, so you have to already have it, or you might find a location link in the following thread linked-to). Note that these are both different versions of DJI Assistant 2, not the first assistant.

For anyone wanting links, here's a video and two thread links:

• https://mavicpilots.com/threads/mavic-2-atti-mode.46782/
• Atti mode Mavic 2 pro

Chris

 

[nafisgal]

Hi all,

The Mavic 2 Pro (and perhaps the MPZ) has an undocumented means of changing program switch (Program, Tripod, Sport) so that one position could instead select full ATTI mode. Undocumented in this context means DJI didn't documented it and it's not clear if they even meant for this to be available.

Does the Mavic 3 have that? Has anyone tried to do that same thing with this bird?

FULL ATTI mode defined: This is where you are flying by stick and have turned off GPS lock. The AC will drift on any air currents, not locking onto any fixed coordinates, even if receiving adequate satellites. This is useful for a lot of things, not the least of which is to practice flying in ATTI in case you lose GPS lock (see the following section, AUTO ATTI), but ATTI is also useful for some smoother video shooting techniques.

AUTO ATTI mode defined: As far as I know, most Mavic products, will kick into ATTI mode when GPS is lost. This isn't what I'm talking about above, as it is not switchable (you cannot manually switch into ATTI mode) and it will go back into GPS mode once lock is re-established. This is a natural safety feature.

(There are several threads in the M2 forum area on how to do this with the DJI Assistant software. Search in that forum area with ATTI in the title and see the threads that mention switch or hack.)

Chris

Interesting; be able to enjoy ATTI mode on the M2P. They can put the link-procedure not contemplated by DJI. Once my warranty period is up, I want to try it out, and have the (half) feeling of what a stabilized pilot would be like an FPV. Thank you.

 

[ianwood]

They won't put ATTi on a drone at this level. Too many people will buy a Mavic 3 at Best Buy and then switch to ATTi by mistake and stuff it into a wall. They will then try to return it saying it flew away. Way too much of a headache for retailers and DJI.

It's too bad it isn't available as ATTi is something everyone should learn. If you haven't tried it, you'll be amazed how much the flight controller is doing to hold position. Then try full manual and see how long you stay in the air. Or just try FPV and be prepared to learn how to really fly.

 

[Ralph thompson]

Why not just buy a racing drone with FPV? Cheaper and lots of fun. I think in most cases the Mavics are used for video and photography in which case TRIPOD mode is far superior and safer.

 

[Not A Speck Of Cereal]

They won't put ATTi on a drone at this level. Too many people will buy a Mavic 3 at Best Buy and then switch to ATTi by mistake and stuff it into a wall. They will then try to return it saying it flew away. Way too much of a headache for retailers and DJI.

That's not quite the way it was when we had ATTI on the Phantoms. Yes, it was still a headache, but I can tell you that retailers and DJI themselves turned away a lot of crashed drones. In other words, they did what they still do: try very hard to say it did not crash due to a manufacturer's issue, so they are not liable. But while they were often in their rights to do so, it still pissed off a lot of customers.

What they've done is removed the hassle of the murky gray area in the middle and all the churn involved with resolving cases. They mitigated that by taking away ATTI and also offering Care Refresh, where the user pays to crash it up to twice, but almost always accepts responsibility for the crash. DJI probably does probably not see a lot of people asking them to pay for a 3rd crash.

But that means that the rest of us don't get ATTI. Shame, that.

Chris

 

[Not A Speck Of Cereal]

Why not just buy a racing drone with FPV? Cheaper and lots of fun.

Racing doesn't do a thing for me. I buy these things as photography platforms only.

I think in most cases the Mavics are used for video and photography in which case TRIPOD mode is far superior and safer.

Yes, photography—welcome to the conversation. But this is the Mavic 3 forum, yes? I understand that the M3 has no Tripod mode.

And I disagree on the 'far superior' part. Tripod mode mellows out acceleration, speed, and breaking, but it does not eliminate them altogether ATTI is much smoother, which is why would would enable it on the M2P even though we had a tripod mode.

Some people even used the TRIPOD switch position for ATTI mode (sacrificing tripod mode). I sacrificed SPORT mode myself.

Chris

 

[ianwood]

That's not quite the way it was when we had ATTI on the Phantoms.

True. Original Phantoms (v1 and v2) even allowed you to use full manual mode. But the evolution is towards more user-friendliness and isolating the user from difficulty. Which is a double-edged sword. Enthusiasts like us lose more hands-on control and casual fliers don't gain as much skill.

Yes, it was still a headache, but I can tell you that retailers and DJI themselves turned away a lot of crashed drones. In other words, they did what they still do: try very hard to say it did not crash due to a manufacturer's issue, so they are not liable. But while they were often in their rights to do so, it still pissed off a lot of customers.

You're 100% right but it is still costly. Retailers will complain if they get swamped with claims. And it costs a lot for DJI to manage claims even if they end up rejecting a lot of them. Evolving towards higher automation and more user-friendliness reduces incidence of bad outcomes but at the cost of hands-on control for the likes of us.

Hopefully someone finds a similar backdoor to change one of the pre-set modes to ATTi.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

Why not just buy a racing drone with FPV? Cheaper and lots of fun.

Racing doesn't do a thing for me. I buy these things as photography platforms only.

Not really the racing you may envisage, racing air gates on a course type of FPV.
I would have called it the more relative cinematic FPV.

Really though, this and Mavic aircraft type of operation is just Worlds apart, and so they should be.
Both have their appeal and uses to different groups of drone pilots.

I'm just about to start FPV sim training, waiting on a computer dongle and cable for my Futaba transmitter.
I feel like I'm about to go down a very big and deep rabbit hole.

I've been watch FPV cinematic for some time now, so MANY great FPV pilots out there.

This fellow is probably up there with the best, check out his other videos, all over the World, and I mean ALL OVER.
You are literally there with these films.

edited to finish a sentence !

 

[kodiak]

Thank for trying Kodiak

Even with the M2P, one had to use an older version. The last version for the past couple of years would not work even on that model.

Chris, understood. I think DJI has gotten pretty good at locking things down with each new iteration of machine. But it would be sweet for sure if someone discovers a new way to get into the innards of the M3 and change things.

 

[Not A Speck Of Cereal]

Retailers will complain if they get swamped with claims. And it costs a lot for DJI to manage claims even if they end up rejecting a lot of them. Evolving towards higher automation and more user-friendliness reduces incidence of bad outcomes but at the cost of hands-on control for the likes of us.

Yup. I was in global support for a multi-national and I can tell you that managements' ultimate goal is to reduce support staffing costs to zero, if possible. No email / web form, no phone or to person-to-person chat. Just automated support channels with scripted chat and canned questionnaires that feed metrics to management and next-generation designers, but offer no immediate satisfaction for current customers.

Handling customer complaints may be a headache, but it's also good service. However, there's always a bean counter in the room that will tell management "Costs will drop sharply if you simply eliminate the functionality that costs the most to support. Then you can reduce the staff down to next-to-nothing".

There comes a time when marketing momentum allows them to follow that advice and continue to grow profits.

Hopefully someone finds a similar backdoor to change one of the pre-set modes to ATTi.

I wonder what Autel Robotics has in this space...

Chris

 

[canadian drone videos]

As one who has flown drones since 2012 & regularly produce commercial video, I see very little benefit to ATTI mode, except as said above, for training. The best mode for capturing smooth video is TRIPOD mode where I can do smooth movements in tight situations, watching the screen with occasional glance at the drone to avoid trees. i don’t care about a jolt at the beginning or end since my video is alway trimmed & colour corrected in post. I have ATTI on a M2ED & I1P & never use it. I’m lobbying DJI to implement Tripod mode & not ATTI mode.

I take it you have never tried to fly in a canyon, or deep rock cut, or indoors?

 

[Ralph thompson]

Yes do fly indoors occasionally for work, that’s why it’s handy to have ATTI (which I have on my I1P & M2ED) but ATTI has no value in producing smooth quality video in my opinion. M3 has ciné which unfortunately is not Tripod. But it’s all personal opinion, everyone has their style. I prefer slow smooth video combining yaw, climb and lateral movements which is quite manageable in Tripod mode and even at 60 FPS on the M2P it’s surprisingly hard not to get stepping in yaw. It would be very challenging to handle all the axes smoothly and keep a subject centred, in an area with trees in ATTI. There is a lobby website to get Tripod mode back, when I last looked it had 70k signatures Including mine )

 

[Not A Speck Of Cereal]

There is a lobby website to get Tripod mode back, when I last looked it had 70k signatures Including mine )

Got'a link? I tried two googles and got nothing.

Chris

 

[surfbird]

Unless Assistant 1.1.2 works with the M3, which I suspect is unlikely, there will be no way to unlock the developer mode necessary to change the appropriate parameters.

There is a lot of other ways to do it,
I saw M3 been added to comm_og_service_tool.
Andreas probably releases something soon.

Add bulk and M3 to comm_og_service_tool · o-gs/dji-firmware-tools@4af5383

Tools for handling firmwares of DJI products, with focus on quadcopters. - Add bulk and M3 to comm_og_service_tool · o-gs/dji-firmware-tools@4af5383

github.com

Ive found another way, if you hack the sdk, so you can change all parameters from the app, in realtime

 

[sar104]

There is a lot of other ways to do it,
I saw M3 been added to comm_og_service_tool.
Andreas probably releases something soon.

Add bulk and M3 to comm_og_service_tool · o-gs/dji-firmware-tools@4af5383

Tools for handling firmwares of DJI products, with focus on quadcopters. - Add bulk and M3 to comm_og_service_tool · o-gs/dji-firmware-tools@4af5383

github.com

Ive found another way, if you hack the sdk, so you can change all parameters from the app, in realtime

Agreed - but you will notice that I was referring specifically to unlocking the Assistant developer mode, not to finding other ways to make parameter changes. Hacking the firmware is a quite different game.

 

[surfbird]

Agreed - but you will notice that I was referring specifically to unlocking the Assistant developer mode, not to finding other ways to make parameter changes. Hacking the firmware is a quite different game.

This is not firmware hacking. Can't understand why you think that?
This works exactly the same way as debug mode. If you look at the diff you might get it.

 

[kodiak]

There is a lot of other ways to do it,
I saw M3 been added to comm_og_service_tool.
Andreas probably releases something soon.

Add bulk and M3 to comm_og_service_tool · o-gs/dji-firmware-tools@4af5383

Tools for handling firmwares of DJI products, with focus on quadcopters. - Add bulk and M3 to comm_og_service_tool · o-gs/dji-firmware-tools@4af5383

github.com

Ive found another way, if you hack the sdk, so you can change all parameters from the app, in realtime

Now this is fascinating. Thanks for the info!