Geo fencing and the no fly database update

[rmb]

I am reading horror stories about people that have updated and then suddenly can’t takeoff in certain areas that would not apply to a 107 pilot. For instance if I’m 5 miles from an airport and I am a hobbyist I can’t fly there, but if I’m on 107 pilot and my sectional charts shows that 4 miles from the airport I can fly below 400 feet without entering their airspace, am I at risk of not being able to fly there. In other words can you override the geo fencing if I know that it is both safe and legal to fly?

 

[HoozierDroneDaddy]

You are in the US so there are two issues. One is the make/model of your UAV. If it is a DJI product, the software may control your UAV and not let you fly within the geofence area without an authorization. If it is not a DJI product, then you have a legal restriction under the FAA as the second issue. The FAA requires you to follow the rules under your local AMA or other organization as a Hobbiest, or have a 107 certification if you are flying commercially.

The hobby flyers that can't take off at 5 miles from the airport most likely have a DJI or other model with geofencing built into the firmware. The 107 pilot that flies 4 miles from the airport under 400 feet most likely went through the proper steps and has authorization to fly there and that authorization provides an unlock to the geofencing.

I see your tag says your FAA Licensed (should be Certified, not licensed) so you should have studied this information to take your 107 test. If you are within the 5 mile marker, depending on the airspace classification and whether your hobby or 107, you will have to take the appropriate steps to unlock your UAV, and or get the appropriate authorization.

Good luck and fly safe whichever route you take.

 

[rmb]

You are in the US so there are two issues. One is the make/model of your UAV. If it is a DJI product, the software may control your UAV and not let you fly within the geofence area without an authorization. If it is not a DJI product, then you have a legal restriction under the FAA as the second issue. The FAA requires you to follow the rules under your local AMA or other organization as a Hobbiest, or have a 107 certification if you are flying commercially.

The hobby flyers that can't take off at 5 miles from the airport most likely have a DJI or other model with geofencing built into the firmware. The 107 pilot that flies 4 miles from the airport under 400 feet most likely went through the proper steps and has authorization to fly there and that authorization provides an unlock to the geofencing.

I see your tag says your FAA Licensed (should be Certified, not licensed) so you should have studied this information to take your 107 test. If you are within the 5 mile marker, depending on the airspace classification and whether your hobby or 107, you will have to take the appropriate steps to unlock your UAV, and or get the appropriate authorization.

Good luck and fly safe whichever route you take.

First off thank you for the correction on my signature. I have already made that correction and I understand that it is an important distinction.

Regarding authorization or steps to unlock let me be more specific.
I fly a DJI inspire 2
I have attached a sectional chart of what I am talking about for your reference.

If I am hired to inspect the tower to the NW of Albany Int. I am in Class G uncontrolled airspace as the shelf of the Class C out there starts at 2000 ft MSL. And I am barely 5 nm out from the Class D airspace of Schenectady County. So I need no authorization at all. Now best practices I would out of courtesy and safety inform the tower of SCH that I am operating 5 NM to there southwest (especially since they have a Left Traffic pattern) But I can see how the geo-fencing might say no. To take it one step further if I wanted to operate "within" the 4 NM of Schenectady's Class D and called the airport manager/CT (Btw I have done this), and tell them of my intentions, 9 out of 10 times they are going to thank me and say that it is ok. He will definitely give me his name as he has done in the past so that I have it for the record, but most of these guys are not going to require or go through the process of a waiver. Simply they can't be bothered and the traffic is too light. So, in that case, how would I deal with the geo-fencing?

Lastly, dead north of Albany Int is the Round Lake Seaplane base which is uncontrolled and although an Airport manager is listed, they never answer their phone. and if you will notice they are about a quarter of a mile to the east of the Class E extension that runs Surface to 700 ft. Trust me although legal these situation can really be a pain (expensive) if someone at DJI has not done their homework before populating their database.

Anyway, things like this are the root of my concern regarded updating the No Fly DB

Again thx!
~rb

 

[dawgpilot]

I have the new database update and have had no issues flying within 5mi of Class C and D airports. (I am part 107 and had the appropriate authorizations to do so). If you are close to the airport, the app just asks you to confirm that you are permitted to fly there. Once you have done so, the airspace is "unlocked" for flight. I think it requires an SMS confirmation the first time you try to unlock.

The only issue would be trying to fly for the first time in an area without cellphone coverage to get the authorization. I think there is a way load an authorization via your computer beforehand in case you are traveling to such an area.

 

[packnrat]

need to find out about my yard. as i am 4 miles from a county airport. but the flight patterns do not fly here. and sad a hospital has a 5 mile no fly zone. must be real busy like 30-60 flights a day. not.
they might get one a month at worst. (i say worst, as it says somebody is hurt real bad). the true real bad get flown down to the big hospitals in the valley.
i live in the hills so maned aircraft fly real high around here. so whats wrong with flying a drone 1-3 miles away from any airport if you are at a right angle to the usable runways?

 

[rmb]

need to find out about my yard. as i am 4 miles from a county airport. but the flight patterns do not fly here. and sad a hospital has a 5 mile no fly zone. must be real busy like 30-60 flights a day. not.
they might get one a month at worst. (i say worst, as it says somebody is hurt real bad). the true real bad get flown down to the big hospitals in the valley.
i live in the hills so maned aircraft fly real high around here. so what's wrong with flying a drone 1-3 miles away from any airport if you are at a right angle to the usable runways?

For the most part, you're right, but you would want to know if they have a right or left traffic pattern. (they are usually left)
Also, I think you all might find this youtube video interesting as they talk about the geo 2.0 and how it is far more decerning and accurate. Sound to me like a big step up for us all.

 

[sar104]

need to find out about my yard. as i am 4 miles from a county airport. but the flight patterns do not fly here. and sad a hospital has a 5 mile no fly zone. must be real busy like 30-60 flights a day. not.
they might get one a month at worst. (i say worst, as it says somebody is hurt real bad). the true real bad get flown down to the big hospitals in the valley.
i live in the hills so maned aircraft fly real high around here. so whats wrong with flying a drone 1-3 miles away from any airport if you are at a right angle to the usable runways?

Have you checked the GEO map:

DJI - The World Leader in Camera Drones/Quadcopters for Aerial Photography

 

[AirBear]

Viewing the map, am I OK to fly in the clear area south and east of the shaded areas? Manchester and along the coast?The screen shot is from DJI 12/5/2018

 

[packnrat]

No I have not checked anything as this. Today is my sat, and I just woke up. Hope it is dry today so I can test.
I did stop by the local airport yesterday. and they have no problem at all. It was a older lady (owns and flys her own plain). We talked for a time. and this geo fence impacted this airport in a bad way. as a drone flyer that was trying to do something for the airport could not.
one should be allowed to fly at the highway. next to the place. it is a good 1/4 mile or more to the east of the only runway. and at least 500 feet lower. airport is on top of a hill. now I am not saying fly in the glide path. or close to it. just sometimes this forced 5 mile thing is bad.
I for one will not be flying close to this airport for any reason. as I would be trespassing on privet land ( not airport property). No open land in this area.
the hills around here. provide lots of places to fly within this no zone. as no planes will fly there. Very unsafe for them. There speed would be crazy in the canyons and valleys.
Couple years back the “bute” fire we had many planes here dumping retardant. Crazy time I could count the rivets on the skin of the (guess dc10’s) as they flew slowly right above my house. .it was a hard fire to fight cause of the steep hillsides.

Under no reason would I fly where or when I would be a “problem” or get in the way. Heck just flying around my home so many trees. a rth command would be a crash.
So yes I do agree with this no zone. But not as far as it has gone.
I see more bad around here than good for it. Now if I lived in pancake city USA. That’s another story.
Forgive weird words I need to turn off auto correct on this phone.

 

[packnrat]

I have the new database update and have had no issues flying within 5mi of Class C and D airports. (I am part 107 and had the appropriate authorizations to do so). If you are close to the airport, the app just asks you to confirm that you are permitted to fly there. Once you have done so, the airspace is "unlocked" for flight. I think it requires an SMS confirmation the first time you try to unlock.

The only issue would be trying to fly for the first time in an area without cellphone coverage to get the authorization. I think there is a way load an authorization via your computer beforehand in case you are traveling to such an area.

Should be unlocked by default. In my case where I live it is hilly. Cellphone is line of sight. And large areas just have no coverage at all. And I live about 80 miles ( straight line) south south east of Sacramento ca. most of this county is state or blm forest land. 200 feet up to 9K more? ( top of the mts).

 

[dawgpilot]

Should be unlocked by default. In my case where I live it is hilly. Cellphone is line of sight. And large areas just have no coverage at all. And I live about 80 miles ( straight line) south south east of Sacramento ca. most of this county is state or blm forest land. 200 feet up to 9K more? ( top of the mts).

Check out the DJI self-unlock procedure on their website. You can request unlocks ahead of time so that you can fly in areas with no cellphone coverage.

Link: DJI - The World Leader in Camera Drones/Quadcopters for Aerial Photography

 

[sar104]

Should be unlocked by default. In my case where I live it is hilly. Cellphone is line of sight. And large areas just have no coverage at all. And I live about 80 miles ( straight line) south south east of Sacramento ca. most of this county is state or blm forest land. 200 feet up to 9K more? ( top of the mts).

You don't need cell phone coverage to acknowledge a warning zone, which is all that is required. Unlocking a restricted zone does require connection to the servers, either at the time or in advance. There's no way around that and nor should there be.

 

[packnrat]

You don't need cell phone coverage to acknowledge a warning zone, which is all that is required. Unlocking a restricted zone does require connection to the servers, either at the time or in advance. There's no way around that and nor should there be.

Not really saying so. just blame and responsibly resides in the hands of said person not a Corp or government not there. AKA: Chevy is not responsible for drunk driving.
Should Chevy install breather test machines in every car and truck to prevent drunk driving?
There is a point of too far in Corp or gov control. As each person is responsible for there actions. And must be held accountable for them.
Like a warning in the controller. Not a fail to work deal.
I know it is a big deal and most of what is said on both sides are good points.
But bad people are still going to do bad things. Leave the legal people alone.

 

[dawgpilot]

Not really saying so. just blame and responsibly resides in the hands of said person not a Corp or government not there. AKA: Chevy is not responsible for drunk driving.
Should Chevy install breather test machines in every car and truck to prevent drunk driving?
There is a point of too far in Corp or gov control. As each person is responsible for there actions. And must be held accountable for them.
Like a warning in the controller. Not a fail to work deal.
I know it is a big deal and most of what is said on both sides are good points.
But bad people are still going to do bad things. Leave the legal people alone.

While I agree with your logic, the reality is that cars have existed for a long time in our society so there is no way someone would seriously propose blaming the manufacturer when someone drives somewhere they shouldn't. Drones are relatively new in comparison, and there is the constant threat of legislation severely restricting them or banning them outright. DJI's geofencing system is their attempt to "self-regulate" and thus avoid further legislation that would severely harm the industry.

 

[packnrat]

While I agree with your logic, the reality is that cars have existed for a long time in our society so there is no way someone would seriously propose blaming the manufacturer when someone drives somewhere they shouldn't. Drones are relatively new in comparison, and there is the constant threat of legislation severely restricting them or banning them outright. DJI's geofencing system is their attempt to "self-regulate" and thus avoid further legislation that would severely harm the industry.

self regulate is not done at the corp level. it is done at the personal level.
but what you say has merit cause of all the crooked lawyers out there willing to sue just cause. and so many thinking easy money in the pockets by suing some deep pocket corp (people have nothing).
the courts have already ruled on that a manf is not to blame for the misuse of there products.
i do not like the permit and continued tax the government imposes, but maybe a drone permit (one time law knowlage paper test, money thing and very low tax to buy it). as well as the "gasp" registering of your property with a non government corp (like it is now... the feds have NO control of this information).
for personal use. should be on paper in a file locked away in a vault that only the faa has control of. aka: not public information.

a bit more for a commercial use drone.

 

[FoxhallGH]

Not really saying so. just blame and responsibly resides in the hands of said person not a Corp or government not there. AKA: Chevy is not responsible for drunk driving.
Should Chevy install breather test machines in every car and truck to prevent drunk driving?
There is a point of too far in Corp or gov control. As each person is responsible for there actions. And must be held accountable for them.
Like a warning in the controller. Not a fail to work deal.
I know it is a big deal and most of what is said on both sides are good points.
But bad people are still going to do bad things. Leave the legal people alone.

No Fly Zones are not actually Zones where you are Not allowed to Fly! ... They are simply zones where DJI needs to have the drone pilot take responsibility for the flight that they are going to make. By going through DJI's published routine and unlocking the Zone, you can fly there as you want (within FAA, CAA etc. reg's of course). By making the Pilot (us) go through a process where we tick a box and submit the application, DJI can then absolve themselves and pass on all legal responsibility to the Drone Pilot - so if he/she then goes on to have an unfortunate close encounter with an Airliner for example, the buck stops with the Pilot.
When I learned to fly (light aircraft) we were taught that you put the same time into the planning on the ground, that you expected to take to fly a cross country training flight. I sometimes think that we need to take a similar attitude with Drones. DJI make the Mavic 'unfold and Go!' - but there are some basic things that should be done first. Unlocking an NFZ is one of them - if that's where you are going to be flying. Don't sit there and moan about NFZ's - learn how to do the unlocking and it then becomes an easy step.

DJI may not be responsible for how the Drone is used, but it's going to be their company that goes down the pan when regulations are imposed across the world to stop Drones flying! So - yes - they are pushing to survive in the commercial world, but they are also doing something pro-active that gives them and their customers (us Pilots) a position of 'responsibility' that we can push back at authority with when Authorities in their ignorance react to rumour and try to ban us from everywhere except the middle of the Gobi Desert!. It does none of us any good to invent conspiracy theories regarding the Chinese Government wanting to see where you fly your Mavic on a weekend!

 

[crlmjohnson]

I also have my Part 107 license. If this is only a extra procedure step that I must go thru, before I fly, then this is a good idea from DJI. It kind of puts the responsible where it should be, and make us all accountable for our own actions.

 

[Rhinodron]

I also have my Part 107 license. If this is only a extra procedure step that I must go thru, before I fly, then this is a good idea from DJI. It kind of puts the responsible where it should be, and make us all accountable for our own actions.

Then you dont need mom and dad constantly telling you ****.


I am 107 and updated, it put restrictions that are beyond what the FAA wants in some areas, also if you are using an ipad like I am with wifi only or in a remote area without cell signal then you could be grounded. Nothing better than driving 45 minutes away to show up and suddenly its marked differently now, its no longer a warning check the map, but its a your drone cant fly here at all.

DJI should fully unlock the drones and remove all no fly zones for 107 pilots, and let them use their own judgment.

 

[crlmjohnson]

I agree with you 100%. That is the only reason why I am a little brother about this. Why spend the extra money and time to take the test, only find out that the FAA do not really differentiate or recognize The Part 107 pilots from the hobbyist pilots.

But one thing, when you do answer the question "are you authorize to fly" unlock your DJI drone so that you can fly for a short time in the air space, I do feel good about answering the question, because I have passed the test and know the air space, and I also know that I am legally flying in the correct air space. ( if this makes sense)

 

[Rhinodron]

I agree with you 100%. That is the only reason why I am a little brother about this. Why spend the extra money and time to take the test, only find out that the FAA do not really differentiate or recognize The Part 107 pilots from the hobbyist pilots.

But one thing, when you do answer the question "are you authorize to fly" unlock your DJI drone so that you can fly for a short time in the air space, I do feel good about answering the question, because I have passed the test and know the air space, and I also know that I am legally flying in the correct air space. ( if this makes sense)

I recommend rolling back the firmware before you get stuck. Its so nice not having to be bothered by it. And as of right now the no fly database is stored on the drone so you can also wipe that back to an empty file, and if your controller has internet it will show the current no fly zones but nothing will happen to the drone's ability to fly there.