GEO-FENCING NEEDS TO CHANGE

[PropPilot]

Every time I take my Mavic out to fly it I love it less (not the machine.... the absurd dysfunctional DJI interference) and get more frustrated. Took it out yesterday and thinking ahead before I did, I did all the software updates and out I went. Turned it on today and it went through the ENTIRE firmware update process (and NO FLY databases of course) again using 40% of my controller battery so I had to charge up AGAIN before going out. DJI is arrogant and out of control. They push more firmware updates than Apple and take the joy out of 'going for a fly' now and then. Factor in the idiocy around the 'no fly' approval process and at some point they are going to piss off the market and will see it in their sales. Yes, I can f&c* around with it removing the NFZ but in the end, I just want to to fly the darn thing.

It takes LESS time for me to create and file a flight plan to fly a big airplane than it does to prep this toy for a sortie. I have a healthy loathing for who ever makes these stupid decisions at DJI.

Rant over.

 

[Wipster]

Try this Cart – NFZ removal – CopterSafe

Every time I take my Mavic out to fly it I love it less (not the machine.... the absurd dysfunctional DJI interference) and get more frustrated. Took it out yesterday and thinking ahead before I did, I did all the software updates and out I went. Turned it on today and it went through the ENTIRE firmware update process (and NO FLY databases of course) again using 40% of my controller battery so I had to charge up AGAIN before going out. DJI is arrogant and out of control. They push more firmware updates than Apple and take the joy out of 'going for a fly' now and then. Factor in the idiocy around the 'no fly' approval process and at some point they are going to piss off the market and will see it in their sales. Yes, I can f&c* around with it removing the NFZ but in the end, I just want to to fly the darn thing.

It takes LESS time for me to create and file a flight plan to fly a big airplane than it does to prep this toy for a sortie. I have a healthy loathing for who ever makes these stupid decisions at DJI.

Rant over.

 

[John Locke]

Every time I take my Mavic out to fly it I love it less (not the machine.... the absurd dysfunctional DJI interference) and get more frustrated. Took it out yesterday and thinking ahead before I did, I did all the software updates and out I went. Turned it on today and it went through the ENTIRE firmware update process (and NO FLY databases of course) again using 40% of my controller battery so I had to charge up AGAIN before going out. DJI is arrogant and out of control. They push more firmware updates than Apple and take the joy out of 'going for a fly' now and then. Factor in the idiocy around the 'no fly' approval process and at some point they are going to piss off the market and will see it in their sales. Yes, I can f&c* around with it removing the NFZ but in the end, I just want to to fly the darn thing.

It takes LESS time for me to create and file a flight plan to fly a big airplane than it does to prep this toy for a sortie. I have a healthy loathing for who ever makes these stupid decisions at DJI.

Rant over.

You're not forced to update your software, you can choose not to. I NEVER update unless there's a really good reason, AND the new version has been vetted by this forum. To me that half the reason I hang out here from time to time.

 

[GadgetGuy]

You're not forced to update your software, you can choose not to. I NEVER update unless there's a really good reason, AND the new version has been vetted by this forum. To me that half the reason I hang out here from time to time.

Unfortunately, I fear that will likely be the next step, forced updates of the FW, the NFZ database, and the GO 4 in order to even arm the motors. Certainly, DJI has already built in that capability as a Trojan Horse into all the existing FW versions and the GO 4 app. The only question in my mind is when DJI will activate that capability. The first step was removing the abilty to downgrade. Can forced updates be that far behind?

 

[John Locke]

Unfortunately, I fear that will likely be the next step, forced updates of the FW, the NFZ database, and the GO 4 in order to even arm the motors. Certainly, DJI has already built in that capability as a Trojan Horse into all the existing FW versions and the GO 4 app. The only question in my mind is when DJI will activate that capability. The first step was removing the abilty to downgrade. Can forced updates be that far behind?

I think that would spawn law suits because recent rulings say an OEM has no rights to change a customers property after the sale. Once it's sold the seller has no rights to it. We'll have to see how that pans out.

 

[PalmettoAerial]

It sounds so easy but it's not. I just spent more than a week getting DJI authorization with update issues and strange behaviours like the GO4 app flicking back and forth between fly/no-fly and I could start (GREEN Go-fly) and fly within the requested NO-FLY zone but it constantly filled the screen with messages about "land immediately, you are in a no-fly zone, or "This aircraft will land in 20sec" although it never did . . in addition when DJI does not recognize W82.332892 is actually -82.332892 not +82 then I am locked out of a paying photo shoot . . . unless I'm somewhere in EASTERN INDIA!

I was authorized to fly at an airport and have independently been authorized by
1. Transport Canada SFOC
2. The airport Manager
3. Flying service Huron Aviation where the filming ramp is
4. The local fire and police services
5. And the B-17 crew who own the aircraft

Why should DJI be in the middle of all that?

Now today, one day later when I went to start the Mavic in this location . . it told me it required an UPGRADE of firmware. When it completed "successfully" the Mavic would not allow starting saying "you are in a no-fly zone" . . . this is not true as you can see from the official Canadian Government UAV no-fly website screenshot I took.


Why can't DJI get out of the way of Canadian aviation authority (Transport Canada) and restrict use of their drones by password to qualified and authorized pilots. Pre-qualify me with documentation, SFOC, licenses what ever you want but let me simply enter a password to unlock the system completely. . . even a "phone back" password verification number like any password reset does . . that would be a lot more useful than the mess I've gone through for the past week . . .We don't make qualified pilots ask foreign governments . . . for companies permission to fly in our own country. If they are worried about some guy who's not following the rules then lock-out his password till it's sorted out.

DJI SYSTEM AND PROCESS IS INTRUSIVE AND UNNECESSARILY COMPLICATED! . . . overkill to say the least. . . and it's killing my business.

I'm a new mavic owner.

It arrives this Wednesday

What would you recommend i do when I get it?

Update the firmware?

Just fly it as is and hope I have the old version?

I'm just learning about all of the fencing / geo / NFZ issues and honestly never thought this would be an issue ....

 

[GadgetGuy]

I think that would spawn law suits because recent rulings say an OEM has no rights to change a customers property after the sale. Once it's sold the seller has no rights to it. We'll have to see how that pans out.

I'm sure Brendan Schulman has a team of leagle eagles on hand to defend any such arbitration claims (class actions and individual suits outside of small claims court are prohibited under the Terms of Service that we all agreed to, when we activated the aircraft, and again when we installed any updates). His defense is that it is necessary for "public safety" and they are mitigating any damages that would otherwise arise from any prior lack of such restrictions, which was a mistake on their part. We didn't buy an aircraft. We bought a license to use a DJI aircraft under their terms, which they are free to change at any time, according to their legal theory. As you say, we'll see how it all pans out. I'm with you!

 

[PropPilot]

Going forward I am going to keep the wifi off on my tablet and see how that works out.

It is not so much that they are enforcing rules with the FW, it is the fact that they are such a &hitty company to have the ability to effectively MANAGE the policy.... Again, someone sitting at a table in China is evaluating unlock requests with absolutely know knowledge on what they are looking at to accept or decline. For the one I am seeking, they just don't respond. Love their toys, they will always be a Chinese company and run like one

 

[bucefalo]

If DJI sticks to this way to manage our drones the only thing we can do is WARN the people on the net.. warn the people we know ... just everyone must know how difficult is becoming to make a FLYING CAMERA to fly !!!
Imagine if they would apply the same restrictions to people making pictures/video with their phone or camera ...
this is insane and if it was like this when i was thinking to buy a mavic pro guess what? **** i'd not buy it... i'd not even get it for free cause it would be useless and just get room in my apartment !
so instead of showing our videos and pictures to people we know.. we should start to warn them " don't buy DJI prodcuts " look elsewhere .. buy from those company NOT trying to control what you already bought !

 

[HKFEVER]

if Beijing doesn't want drones, ban them. Stop making it difficult for pilots from other locations that need to jump through hoops, rolling back, or hacking firmware to make their drones fly legally.

This is Chinese practice, you need to hire their company to finish a job in their turf.

 

[HKFEVER]

I'm a new mavic owner.

It arrives this Wednesday

What would you recommend i do when I get it?

Update the firmware?

Just fly it as is and hope I have the old version?

I'm just learning about all of the fencing / geo / NFZ issues and honestly never thought this would be an issue ....

Don't update anything.

 

[John Locke]

Don't update anything.

I agree, never update anything unless there's a compelling reason. However with new craft you may be forced to update firmware if the craft won't fly right with the current GO4 app you download to your device. Often you need to have coordinates versions of craft firmware, RC firmware and GO4 app. Once you get that, and the craft flies well, DON'T CHANGE THEM, unless there's a compelling reason.

 

[GadgetGuy]

I agree, never update anything unless there's a compelling reason. However with new craft you may be forced to update firmware if the craft won't fly right with the current GO4 app you download to your device. Often you need to have coordinates versions of craft firmware, RC firmware and GO4 app. Once you get that, and the craft flies well, DON'T CHANGE THEM, unless there's a compelling reason.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
Like a new medication, the prescription is issued because the doctor believes the benefits ot treatment will outweigh the known side effects. Become your own doctor of your aircraft, and decide for yourself if there is any pain you are experiencing, that justifies taking the risk of swallowing any new DJI pill, with all of its side effects! When in doubt, don't!

 

[CoolBreeze]

Following link is to an in depth GEO fencing/dji article regarding the issues...

In Defense of DJI: Why Hackers Are Wrong to Play Games

 

[WEOTN]

Every time I take my Mavic out to fly it I love it less (not the machine.... the absurd dysfunctional DJI interference) and get more frustrated. Took it out yesterday and thinking ahead before I did, I did all the software updates and out I went. Turned it on today and it went through the ENTIRE firmware update process (and NO FLY databases of course) again using 40% of my controller battery so I had to charge up AGAIN before going out. DJI is arrogant and out of control. They push more firmware updates than Apple and take the joy out of 'going for a fly' now and then. Factor in the idiocy around the 'no fly' approval process and at some point they are going to piss off the market and will see it in their sales. Yes, I can f&c* around with it removing the NFZ but in the end, I just want to to fly the darn thing.

It takes LESS time for me to create and file a flight plan to fly a big airplane than it does to prep this toy for a sortie. I have a healthy loathing for who ever makes these stupid decisions at DJI.

Rant over.

Your 'rant' just reaffirms the correctness (for me) of not doing any updates to the .400 firmware my Mavic system came with. I can't do goggles (fly alone so no spotter to allow them anyway) and if I want a fixed wing effect, I'll fly a fixed wing with GoPro or the like. I bought a quad to take nice videos of areas of the world I love to enjoy. I just don't need the hassle DJI is throwing out at this time. And maps aren't important to me as I fly within eyesight anyway and the radar track is very useful as is.

For those who wonder about forced upgrades, my system always says updates are needed, but I X the comments out of the way, and authorize (accept responsibility for) myself as I've contacted any seaports, helipads, or airstrips within range if they bother to pickup the phone or have voice mail. It doesn't fail to launch or force a landing. I don't let the Mini4 onto the Internet, nor the RC or Mavic. Their Mac software to run upgrades never worked in my old Mac, so I couldn't update at first and after reading of problems many had after updates, I never bothered to try.

If you have .400, or jump the hoops to restore .400, you can exist without the updates, so far anyhow. Just my $.02

 

[Memphis_Mavic]

Your 'rant' just reaffirms the correctness (for me) of not doing any updates to the .400 firmware my Mavic system came with. I can't do goggles (fly alone so no spotter to allow them anyway) and if I want a fixed wing effect, I'll fly a fixed wing with GoPro or the like. I bought a quad to take nice videos of areas of the world I love to enjoy. I just don't need the hassle DJI is throwing out at this time. And maps aren't important to me as I fly within eyesight anyway and the radar track is very useful as is.

For those who wonder about forced upgrades, my system always says updates are needed, but I X the comments out of the way, and authorize (accept responsibility for) myself as I've contacted any seaports, helipads, or airstrips within range if they bother to pickup the phone or have voice mail. It doesn't fail to launch or force a landing. I don't let the Mini4 onto the Internet, nor the RC or Mavic. Their Mac software to run upgrades never worked in my old Mac, so I couldn't update at first and after reading of problems many had after updates, I never bothered to try.

If you have .400, or jump the hoops to restore .400, you can exist without the updates, so far anyhow. Just my $.02

I agree with your comments 100%. I bought mine back in March and it's on .400 I've never bothered to update as it flies and takes the pictures/videos that I want. If it ain't broke, well you know.

 

[PalmettoAerial]

I agree with your comments 100%. I bought mine back in March and it's on .400 I've never bothered to update as it flies and takes the pictures/videos that I want. If it ain't broke, well you know.

I wish I had done the same but thought I had to update to fly…

 

[CoolBreeze]

I live 3.9 miles from busy, aircraft operations avg. 151/day, airport tower. River area South, East and West of home flight location. I have yet to experience any GEO Fence issues with newest dji Mavic Pro updates.
So for myself updates will continue. Strange, but sometimes not every flight, system simply reminds me I'm in a class D control airspace.

 

[dewster]

Nasty - yes DJI is being rather heavy handed. It may have to do with drones being forbidden in the city of Beijing, and they are extending that using a slightly error prone database to other countries. I would back off to the older firmware, were I in your situation.

That's certainly true. The first software restrictive NFZs was in China. Many people just don't know where they can legally fly.

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Maybe DJI should sell "professional" versions of their craft that are unlocked and require a license to buy.

Alternatively...exploit a security hole in their software or hack.

 

[geigy]

That's certainly true. The first software restrictive NFZs was in China. Many people just don't know where they can legally fly.

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Maybe DJI should sell "professional" versions of their craft that are unlocked and require a license to buy.

Alternatively...exploit a security hole in their software or hack.

I don't think flagrant violation of nfz restrictions will do much except end the current "wild west" drone era that much sooner. That era will end when the sheriff comes to town, and consumer drones are jammed, physically destroyed, and captured on a routine basis.