HOA vs FAA ?

[CarlsbadAL]

Hello All,
I recently received a letter from the HOA stating that they are implementing a restriction on the use of drones in the community. I'm in the USA. Southern California. Fly a MP. Not a Part 107 .

"No member, tenant, resident,guest, or invitee may operate or authorize the operation of a drone on or in the community,or otherwise ENTER THE AIRSPACE above any portion of the community with a drone. Prohibited use of drones includes,but is not limited to the recreational/hobby use of a drone in the common area green belts,private streets,and recreational areas."
"Members or residents launching or flying such drones may be subject to fine and required to reimburse the HOA and and/or other residents whose properties are damaged by such drones,or whose privacy is invaded by such devices."

"As an exception to the above prohibition of drones in the community, members who are offering their residence for sale or lease may submit a written request to the HOA requesting permission to allow their real estate agent to use a drone to photograph or record their residence in order to facilitate such sale or lease."

"The members written request must include :
Members address
Real Estate agent's name.
Real Estate agent's license number.
Real Estate agent's proof of liability insurance.
Name and entity contracted to fly the drone.
The drone pilot's remote pilot's license/part 107
The drone pilot's proof of insurance.
The proposed date and time that the drone will be used to photograph and/or record the residence.

The HOA will review the written request, and in its sole discretion, approve, reject, or conditionally approve it. If the request is conditionally approved, the member must abide by any conditions imposed. If rejected, the member may appeal the decision before the HOA Board of Directors."

"To the extent that the requirements of any Federal, State, or local Law or regulation should supersede the HOA restrictions on use of drones, those provisions of the rule not in conflict with those laws or regulations shall remain in effect."

I think the last paragraph is the important point. , Federal law / FAA jurisdiction/airspace.

So...... what's your opinion / advice ?

Thanks , AL

 

[DanMan32]

They can regulate where you stand, launch and land, probably even on your own property, but they cannot control fly over.

I would agree with their liability clause. One would think that's understood without having to be spelled out.

HOAs tend to be overbearing. I wouldn't live in one because of that, as well as the high fees.

 

[Mavic Mac]

It sounds like they can limit/restrict you being within/on the property flying a drone and they covered their butts with the last paragraph. And like @DanMan32 I will never live on a community with a HOAs - Even though you own it they still control it. IMHO that is total BS !

 

[PoonDog]

Home Owners Association can controle residential neighaborhoods providing the residents are members of the HOA. If your talking about a spacific TOWN, I dont think HOA can impose city ordanance. They dont control airspace.

 

[MavicVA]

All jokes aside about both CA and HOAs, they have no jurisdiction as long as the AC doesn't touch the ground within their jurisdiction and you are not controlling the AC from their jurisdiction. That being said, if you launch and land from another property and they find out it is you they will probably make your life a living hell. That's what fascists tend to do.

 

[msinger]

what's your opinion / advice ?

Go fly somewhere outside of your community.

 

[CarlsbadAL]

Go fly somewhere outside of your community.

Go fly somewhere outside of your community.

 

[CarlsbadAL]

Thanks for nothing ! Msinger. **** !!
As for the others , thanks !

 

[tcope]

I like the "authorize" part. So you can invite me to your property and then I can simply fly the drone as much as I want. After all, you did not "authorize" the fight, just invited me out to your property. The HOA then cannot even take any action against the property owner as this is not spelled out. Obviously whoever wrote these rules does not have a clue about airspace and US Code and they are simply terrible at writing by-laws.

 

[msinger]

Thanks for nothing ! Msinger. **** !!

It was a serious answer.

The HOA will not allow you to take off from the community property (nothing you can do there). And it's not worth the hassle to take off outside of the community and fly over it (even though it's legal to do so).

 

[CarlsbadAL]

Thanks to everyone for the input and advice !!

(Time to have a beer and a shot and watch some football).
Thanks to everyone around the planet posting vids and pics on this forum , Love it !!
Cheers , Salut and Hasta luego !!

 

[Mavic Mac]

I like the "authorize" part. So you can invite me to your property and then I can simply fly the drone as much as I want. After all, you did not "authorize" the fight, just invited me out to your property. The HOA then cannot even take any action against the property owner as this is not spelled out. Obviously whoever wrote these rules does not have a clue about airspace and US Code and they are simply terrible at writing by-laws.

Don't know if it was a typo or a point being made - Hopefully it doesn't come to that ?

 

[brett8883]

Hello All,
I recently received a letter from the HOA stating that they are implementing a restriction on the use of drones in the community. I'm in the USA. Southern California. Fly a MP. Not a Part 107 .

"No member, tenant, resident,guest, or invitee may operate or authorize the operation of a drone on or in the community,or otherwise ENTER THE AIRSPACE above any portion of the community with a drone. Prohibited use of drones includes,but is not limited to the recreational/hobby use of a drone in the common area green belts,private streets,and recreational areas."
"Members or residents launching or flying such drones may be subject to fine and required to reimburse the HOA and and/or other residents whose properties are damaged by such drones,or whose privacy is invaded by such devices."

"As an exception to the above prohibition of drones in the community, members who are offering their residence for sale or lease may submit a written request to the HOA requesting permission to allow their real estate agent to use a drone to photograph or record their residence in order to facilitate such sale or lease."

"The members written request must include :
Members address
Real Estate agent's name.
Real Estate agent's license number.
Real Estate agent's proof of liability insurance.
Name and entity contracted to fly the drone.
The drone pilot's remote pilot's license/part 107
The drone pilot's proof of insurance.
The proposed date and time that the drone will be used to photograph and/or record the residence.

The HOA will review the written request, and in its sole discretion, approve, reject, or conditionally approve it. If the request is conditionally approved, the member must abide by any conditions imposed. If rejected, the member may appeal the decision before the HOA Board of Directors."

"To the extent that the requirements of any Federal, State, or local Law or regulation should supersede the HOA restrictions on use of drones, those provisions of the rule not in conflict with those laws or regulations shall remain in effect."

I think the last paragraph is the important point. , Federal law / FAA jurisdiction/airspace.

So...... what's your opinion / advice ?

Thanks , AL

Here in Utah we have a state law that says you must follow all federal laws regarding drones. So what this means is if you don’t follow a federal regulation then it’s also a violation of state law meaning they can enforce federal regulations. I take this to mean the same thing. If you violate federal or state regulations then you can be in trouble with the HOA as well.

You can’t have rules that conflict with federal regulations which all of these rules do making them invalid, however, if you don’t fly under ferderal laws with an unregistered drone they maybe they could come after you. Not enough case law say if that will hold up or not but its meant to scare the uninformed.

There was also a thread not too long ago where a HOA wanted to put in similar rules but when they took it to the lawyer to put it into the bylaws the lawyer refused saying it wasn’t legal

Good News

A couple of months ago I posted on here about Drone flying in my 55+ gated golf community and that the board was looking at it..... Some of the residents "did not" want drone flying at all. One person wanted NO drones allowed at all....another one wanted the drone fliers to call the office...

mavicpilots.com

I’m not sure HOA has the power to tell you what activities you can and can’t do on your own property. HOAs are for keeping up appearances in the neighborhood and enforcing some “standards” but they don’t have the power to make laws. You didn’t sign over your rights to them so they could tell you how to live your life, that’s absurd. It would be like making a rule you cannot play baseball in your backyard. It’s still your property

 

[msinger]

HOAs are for keeping up appearances in the neighborhood and enforcing some “standards” but they don’t have the power to make laws

In addition to keeping up with appearances, they also have many rules revolving around things that could be considered a nuisance (like flying a drone around the community). I used to live in a community that had an HOA and was on the HOA board for 8 years, so I'm pretty familiar with how they work.

One thing the OP might want to look into is the process of how new rules are created. The community bylaws should explain if that requires a majority homeowner vote, etc.

 

[MavicVA]

Here in Utah we have a state law that says you must follow all federal laws regarding drones. So what this means is if you don’t follow a federal regulation then it’s also a violation of state law meaning they can enforce federal regulations. I take this to mean the same thing. If you violate federal or state regulations then you can be in trouble with the HOA as well.

You can’t have rules that conflict with federal regulations which all of these rules do making them invalid, however, if you don’t fly under ferderal laws with an unregistered drone they maybe they could come after you. Not enough case law say if that will hold up or not but its meant to scare the uninformed.

There was also a thread not too long ago where a HOA wanted to put in similar rules but when they took it to the lawyer to put it into the bylaws the lawyer refused saying it wasn’t legal

Good News

A couple of months ago I posted on here about Drone flying in my 55+ gated golf community and that the board was looking at it..... Some of the residents "did not" want drone flying at all. One person wanted NO drones allowed at all....another one wanted the drone fliers to call the office...

mavicpilots.com

I’m not sure HOA has the power to tell you what activities you can and can’t do on your own property. HOAs are for keeping up appearances in the neighborhood and enforcing some “standards” but they don’t have the power to make laws. You didn’t sign over your rights to them so they could tell you how to live your life, that’s absurd. It would be like making a rule you cannot play baseball in your backyard. It’s still your property

I once lived in a neighborhood with an HOA and I’ll never make that mistake again. I’ve had to deal with them professionally especially in NYC and FL. They can be a real pain in the butt. It seems in some states they pretty much are the rule of law in their own little fiefdoms and there isn’t much you can do about it. That plus the fact that people who gravitate to serving on the board tend to be authoritarian little busy bodies who hate to see anyone have fun. If you have to live in one my advice would be to stay off their radar. They love to quash “trouble makers”. I guess that’s why I live on a farm. I can do what I want. Good luck. I hope you find some great places to fly. CA is full of them. I was in the hills between Oxnard and Malibu and I wish I had my drone with me.

 

[kwilliams6045]

Here’s my 3 word answer “screw the HOA”

 

[Mavic Mac]

I had a friend that looked at property in CO. that had a HOA. Not only did they state what color choices you had to paint your house they also mandated what color choices you had for curtains on the windows that faced the street ! Needless to say he didn't spend any time looking at building sites there.

 

[tcope]

They love to quash “trouble makers”. I guess that’s why I live on a farm. I can do what I want.

Also make them an easy target for a lawsuit. Attempting to make an illegal guideline and then enforcing it resulting in damages.

HOA's usually assume that the only way anyone will do the right thing is by forcing them to do it. I've never been subject to an HOA and never had any problems with anyone living in my area. Many times the fence around my property had been damaged. I have no clue who owns it, I just always fix it. I can, so I do. I take that back.. one time a neighbor cut down a tree on their property and damages the fence. I told them before they started that if the fence was damaged, I'd just take care of it. I did not get to it for a couple of weekends. They just went ahead and repaired it. No HOA was needed.

 

[DanMan32]

That was decent of your neighbor. Probably why you originally said not to be concerned about damage to the fence.

I live in a deed restricted community. However the civic association that enforced the restrictions disbanded 10 years ago. Much of what they couldn't enforce they were able to get ordinances passed.

 

[GFields]

I have attempted to do roof inspections in communities where they have succeeded in getting the FAA to place a no-fly zone. And was unable to do the job. My answer may be somewhat off point, but the HOA might succeed in doing the same thing. In the meantime, I would honor the HOA requests.