How far should I fly?

[Marko9219]

I extended my VLOS drastically by adding strobes. At least triple the previous distance, depending on what's behind the drone as a backdrop. I fly against a mountain a lot and I lose it quickly because both the drone and the mountains are dark without the strobe light flashing to help me
At night, I doubt it would get far enough to not be seen before it lost signal.

 

[Marko9219]

Simmer down man...why comply with any laws? Seriously? I love overly exaggerated sanctimonious statements, just because I'm going to go fly my drone 1 mile out onto a lake or a park that nobody is at doesn't mean I will ignore the laws preventing me from murder or armed robbery. Some people get so wound up and self righteous....

I assume you drive everywhere at exactly the posted speed limit right? You've never consciously accelerated beyond the posted speed limit because you are the model citizen.

To everyone else that answered honestly I appreciate your answers. I am not looking to endanger anyone as I plan to fly at low altitudes. I am mostly just concerned about losing my drone to birds or loss of signal.

Bad analogy. Driving over the speed limit has about zero chance of bringing the hammer down on public driving opportunities. Breaking drone laws is quite different. Most non-pilots would probably prefer we all be legislated out of existence. Breaking the laws gives them and the Government reasons to do exactly that in incremental steps that we are already seeing. So no, breaking drone laws is NOT the same as driving 75 in a 70 zone. Not even close.

 

[Mavic Maveric]

1-2 miles? That's well beyond VLOS unless you have Super Man vision. You're completely missing the regs and NOT flying within them even remotely.


How in the world is that "within FAA sUAS regs"? This "allowance" for flying BVLOS allows for briefly flying behind a building etc and the aircraft coming back into VLOS. It does NOT allow you to FLY beyond your VLOS and keep flying until you happen to decide to turn around and fly back within VLOS.

How in the world can you maintain the most basic part of aviation... See & Avoid if you're flying BVLOS like you have admitted to online???

They "allow" you to temporarily delegate "VLOS" to your VO so that you can look down at the display device in order to see telemetry etc but at all times the RPIC but be able to look up and see the aircraft. The VO does not completely assume VLOS (such as flying to the extent of YOUR VLOS and then daisy chaining that to fly to the extent of your VO's VLOS...) because the RPIC must be able to see the aircraft at any moment.

This is taken directly from the FAA:

At all times the small unmanned aircraft must remain close enough to the remote pilot in command and the person manipulating the flight controls of the small UAS for those people to be capable of seeing the aircraft with vision unaided by any device other than corrective lenses.

 

[Mavic Maveric]

1-2 miles? That's well beyond VLOS unless you have Super Man vision. You're completely missing the regs and NOT flying within them even remotely.


How in the world is that "within FAA sUAS regs"? This "allowance" for flying BVLOS allows for briefly flying behind a building etc and the aircraft coming back into VLOS. It does NOT allow you to FLY beyond your VLOS and keep flying until you happen to decide to turn around and fly back within VLOS.

How in the world can you maintain the most basic part of aviation... See & Avoid if you're flying BVLOS like you have admitted to online???

They "allow" you to temporarily delegate "VLOS" to your VO so that you can look down at the display device in order to see telemetry etc but at all times the RPIC but be able to look up and see the aircraft. The VO does not completely assume VLOS (such as flying to the extent of YOUR VLOS and then daisy chaining that to fly to the extent of your VO's VLOS...) because the RPIC must be able to see the aircraft at any moment.

This is taken directly from the FAA:

At all times the small unmanned aircraft must remain close enough to the remote pilot in command and the person manipulating the flight controls of the small UAS for those people to be capable of seeing the aircraft with vision unaided by any device other than corrective lenses.

I guess I wasn't clear. He was asking about the range of the aircraft. Occasionally, I have flown 1-2 miles and ALWAYS over our very unpopulated areas of our state. My VO (wife) is always downwind at a point that she can see my aircraft. We have two-way radios and we stay in contact. We fly exclusively in rural areas whereupon if my M2P were to crash, it would be in some woods or in a cow pasture. The only time it's beyond her sight, when she's a distance from me, is when it goes over some trees out of her range. Then she tells me and I bring it back. She watches it until the point I can see it. Then I bring it in. I am ALWAYS in a human safe stance while flying. Always.

Rather than accusing, why don't you ask some simple questions. People skills dude!

 

[baddog]

If you're talking about flying LEGALLY then you'll need to address the actual regulation:

(a) With vision that is unaided by any device other than corrective lenses, the remote pilot in command, the visual observer (if one is used), and the person manipulating the flight control of the small unmanned aircraft system must be able to see the unmanned aircraft throughout the entire flight in order to:

(1) Know the unmanned aircraft’s location;

(2) Determine the unmanned aircraft’s attitude, altitude, and direction of flight;

(3) Observe the airspace for other air traffic or hazards; and

(4) Determine that the unmanned aircraft does not endanger the life or property of another.

(b) Throughout the entire flight of the small unmanned aircraft, the ability described in paragraph (a) of this section must be exercised by either:

(1) The remote pilot in command and the person manipulating the flight controls of the small unmanned aircraft system; or

(2) A visual observer.

The trick is that you have to be able to be able to more than see a dot on the horizon. You need to be able to know a(1), a(2), a(3), AND a(4) the entire flight.

So if the PIC has the controls and has a dedicated visual observer as part of his flight crew during a particular flight and the PIC is wearing FPV goggles is the PIC, then in violation of how you have interpreted this regulation?

 

[Mavic Maveric]

Between my VO and me, we see it at all times. We never use binocs or anything like that, just our naked eyes. When it goes beyond her vision, she tells me over the radio and I bring it back. I believe in safety and following the rules always. I believe we are legal. I have a contact within the FAA who deals with sUAS questions. We've "talked" several times. I just wrote an email to him asking about my situation to see if it's legal or not. I completely believe that I AM following the rules. But, I'll know for sure shortly (Mon. or Tues.).

I have done this type of thing twice over my very rural, northern state to get some nice rolling hills and woods shots. There is an occasional house. If it does go down, it'll be high up in a tree or in a field/cow pasture.

The defense rests.

 

[Mavic Maveric]

So if the PIC has the controls and has a dedicated visual observer as part of his flight crew during a particular flight and the PIC is wearing FPV goggles is the PIC, then in violation of how you have interpreted this regulation?

Interesting. I don't own any goggles so I can't answer to this. But I completely believe that I personally have done everything by the book.

 

[skiptv]

I have a Mavic Pro 2. I can still see it at 1000 feet if I was watching it 100% of the time as I flew out. The ability to spot the drone by just looking down at the monitor is greatly diminishes that range. Usually about 500 feet if I look down and then back up. I also have an Inspire 2 I can easily see that from about 1700 feet.

 

[BigAl07]

I guess I wasn't clear. He was asking about the range of the aircraft. Occasionally, I have flown 1-2 miles and ALWAYS over our very unpopulated areas of our state. My VO (wife) is always downwind at a point that she can see my aircraft. We have two-way radios and we stay in contact. We fly exclusively in rural areas whereupon if my M2P were to crash, it would be in some woods or in a cow pasture. The only time it's beyond her sight, when she's a distance from me, is when it goes over some trees out of her range. Then she tells me and I bring it back. She watches it until the point I can see it. Then I bring it in. I am ALWAYS in a human safe stance while flying. Always.

Rather than accusing, why don't you ask some simple questions. People skills dude!

I replied to your comment directly because of the details and specifics you stated. I took your exact words and explained how you are mistaken. I also quoted a portion the requirements from the FAA pertaining to VLOS. The RPIC has to be able to look up and see the aircraft at any portion of the flight and the VO does NOT extend the VLOS portion. You're completely misunderstanding the role and allowances of the VO.

Also, per your exact words, you do fly beyond your VO's VLOS which is when she tells you to bring it back. Doubly wrong . . .

Since you suggest I "ask some simple questions" I'll bite:

* How do figure you're flying within the rules yet you openly stated on multiple posts you are flying beyond your VLOS and then you also stated you fly beyond your VO's VLOS?

Here is a quote from the FAA's sUAS Liaison Mr. Morris in a conversation we shared about this very topic.


****Begin Quote****
Allen wrote:
can the RPIC fly beyond VLOS if using a designated VO who is in VLOS with the UA? I was under the impression that without the BVLOS waiver the RPIC had to always be "able" to see the aircraft if need be. Thank you in advance.

Mr. Morris Wrote:

For the VLOS question, the RPIC must maintain VLOS with the UA at all times. The VO provision is for the temporary moments when the RPIC may need to look down at the data they may be collecting on additional systems. During those times, the VO would be able to alert the RPIC of any danger.At no time can the aircraft be outside of VLOS for the RPIC. The RPIC must be able to look up and see the aircraft at any moment.

****End Quote****
I look forward to hearing the outcome of your meeting this week with the FAA contact you have.

 

[BigAl07]

So if the PIC has the controls and has a dedicated visual observer as part of his flight crew during a particular flight and the PIC is wearing FPV goggles is the PIC, then in violation of how you have interpreted this regulation?

Technically, and this is somewhat of a grey area, flying with FPV goggles that do not allow for see-thru capabilities is violating the rules. The VO option allows for brief/momentary instances for the RPIC to take eyes away from the UA in order to view telemetry etc to help enhance safety.

 

[Mavic Maveric]

I replied to your comment directly because of the details and specifics you stated. I took your exact words and explained how you are mistaken. I also quoted a portion the requirements from the FAA pertaining to VLOS. The RPIC has to be able to look up and see the aircraft at any portion of the flight and the VO does NOT extend the VLOS portion. You're completely misunderstanding the role and allowances of the VO.

Also, per your exact words, you do fly beyond your VO's VLOS which is when she tells you to bring it back. Doubly wrong . . .

Since you suggest I "ask some simple questions" I'll bite:

* How do figure you're flying within the rules yet you openly stated on multiple posts you are flying beyond your VLOS and then you also stated you fly beyond your VO's VLOS?

Here is a quote from the FAA's sUAS Liaison Mr. Morris in a conversation we shared about this very topic.

Allen wrote:
can the RPIC fly beyond VLOS if using a designated VO who is in VLOS with the UA? I was under the impression that without the BVLOS waiver the RPIC had to always be "able" to see the aircraft if need be. Thank you in advance.

Mr. Morris Wrote:

For the VLOS question, the RPIC must maintain VLOS with the UA at all times. The VO provision is for the temporary moments when the RPIC may need to look down at the data they may be collecting on additional systems. During those times, the VO would be able to alert the RPIC of any danger.At no time can the aircraft be outside of VLOS for the RPIC. The RPIC must be able to look up and see the aircraft at any moment.

I look forward to hearing the outcome of your meeting this week with the FAA contact you have.

Thank you for your questions. I appreciate that. So much better than a bunch of "barking". I know because I used to be a "barker".

Now, I could definitely be wrong. From the on-line class I took for my 107 cert., I have been under the impression that your VO can watch your aircraft in your stead as long as that person or the PIC sees the aircraft at all times. Yes, it did go out of my VO"s range but I brought it back right away. The class teaches that there are times when the aircraft can be out of VLOS, such as through smoke, around trees, etc. and the FAA says to regain VLOS as soon as possible. Concerning my VO's VLOS that is what I did, to the tee! They teach that losing sight of our sUAS is NOT against the rules but you must regain as soon as you can. That's what I did for my VO. Again, I am under the impression my VO can watch the craft when I can not (from my class). I definitely admit that I could have misinterpreted my lesson.

When she lost sight of it, I brought it back right off into her view. Then I returned the vehicle to me for landing. One of us had sight of it the whole time, other than that one moment. We are in class G airspace out in the middle of nowhere (in the northeastern part of the US) and she can see the craft when I can not. I am always a rule follower (I am a 30 year retired US Soldier). I rarely fly above 300 AGL.

You and I ARE on the same side believe it or not. I am brand new to all of this as having bought my Mavic 2 Pro in March, got my part 107 cert. in April. I am learning and trying to understand all the rules.

When I hear from my FAA contact, I'll let you know what he says. I told him that if I'm wrong, I want to know so that I can adjust my future flights. I could always break up my videos into segments and cut them in during post. But, I wanted to make (and I did) a couple of 5 minute videos of sweeping views of our beautiful country side without a cut.

 

[Mavic Maveric]

I replied to your comment directly because of the details and specifics you stated. I took your exact words and explained how you are mistaken. I also quoted a portion the requirements from the FAA pertaining to VLOS. The RPIC has to be able to look up and see the aircraft at any portion of the flight and the VO does NOT extend the VLOS portion. You're completely misunderstanding the role and allowances of the VO.

Also, per your exact words, you do fly beyond your VO's VLOS which is when she tells you to bring it back. Doubly wrong . . .

Since you suggest I "ask some simple questions" I'll bite:

* How do figure you're flying within the rules yet you openly stated on multiple posts you are flying beyond your VLOS and then you also stated you fly beyond your VO's VLOS?

Here is a quote from the FAA's sUAS Liaison Mr. Morris in a conversation we shared about this very topic.

Allen wrote:
can the RPIC fly beyond VLOS if using a designated VO who is in VLOS with the UA? I was under the impression that without the BVLOS waiver the RPIC had to always be "able" to see the aircraft if need be. Thank you in advance.

Mr. Morris Wrote:

For the VLOS question, the RPIC must maintain VLOS with the UA at all times. The VO provision is for the temporary moments when the RPIC may need to look down at the data they may be collecting on additional systems. During those times, the VO would be able to alert the RPIC of any danger.At no time can the aircraft be outside of VLOS for the RPIC. The RPIC must be able to look up and see the aircraft at any moment.

I look forward to hearing the outcome of your meeting this week with the FAA contact you have.

Dear BIg A107 -

Please read: https://www.faa.gov/uas/media/Part_107_Summary.pdf
It states in the 2nd bullet:

"Visual line-of-sight (VLOS) only; the unmanned aircraft must remain within VLOS of the remote pilot in command and the person manipulating the flight controls of the small UAS. Alternatively, the unmanned aircraft must remain within VLOS of the visual observer". The second sentence (Alternately means in my stead) tells me that I did exactly what the FAA requires. From that I gleen that I AM doing the right thing. What do you think?

 

[kadras]

Part 107 clearly states the RPIC or visual observer must have visual contact with the aircraft during the flight.

§ 107.31 Visual line of sight aircraft operation.
(a) With vision that is unaided by any device other than corrective lenses, the remote pilot in command, the visual observer (if one is used), and the person manipulating the flight control of the small unmanned aircraft system must be able to see the unmanned aircraft throughout the entire flight in order to:
(1) Know the unmanned aircraft’s location;
(2) Determine the unmanned aircraft’s attitude, altitude, and direction of flight;
(3) Observe the airspace for other air traffic or hazards; and
(4) Determine that the unmanned aircraft does not endanger the life or property of another.
(b) Throughout the entire flight of the small unmanned aircraft, the ability described in paragraph (a) of this section must be exercised by either:
(1) The remote pilot in command and the person manipulating the flight controls of the small unmanned aircraft system; or
(2) A visual observer.

§ 107.33 Visual observer.
If a visual observer is used during the aircraft operation, all of the following requirements must be met:
(a) The remote pilot in command, the person manipulating the flight controls of the small unmanned aircraft system, and the visual observer must maintain effective communication with each other at all times.
(b) The remote pilot in command must ensure that the visual observer is able to see the unmanned aircraft in the manner specified in § 107.31.
(c) The remote pilot in command, the person manipulating the flight controls of the small unmanned aircraft system, and the visual observer must coordinate to do the following:
(1) Scan the airspace where the small unmanned aircraft is operating for any potential collision hazard; and
(2) Maintain awareness of the position of the small unmanned aircraft through direct visual observation.

 

[wreckinball]

I fly as far as the DJI go 4 let's me. It will let me know of any problems encountered. Let's be real if there was a catastrophic failure 1000 ft VLOS or 30000 ft it is the same, it's going down and nothing is stopping it. The only concern I have is other manned aircraft, but if I stay at 300ft and encounter them they are 200 ft under their threshold and that could happen at 100ft.

 

[Earthman]

You can’t possibly control an unmanned aircraft VLOS when it is so far away that you can’t fly it safely without the video feed from the aircraft. You can lose the video feed for any number of reasons. You can’t monitor the airspace around you for other aircraft without looking away from your drone - then you have to be able to reacquire it visually quickly. So, the answer to how far away you can fly is, not vary far if you understand that equipment isn’t 100% reliable and follow the rules. Try it. Don’t look at the video feed and see how far away you can see and control the aircraft safely knowing that you are totally responsible and liable for any damage or injury it causes. That’s how far away you can fly it, which has nothing to do with how far away the equipment can operate while you ignore the rules, safety, and common sense.

By the way, it’s likely that regulators (the FAA), commercial interests (those who need the FAA to control the airspace so they can conduct business safely), and anyone who opposes drones for any reason have gathered all the justification they need for more regulation by monitoring discussions and websites like this.

You need to follow the letter of the law so you don’t screw it up for those of us who know what we are doing.

 

[Don the engineer]

I bought 4 firehouse white strobes for daytime operations. The front pair I put on fast strobe and the rear I put on slow strobe. I took a thick piece of lexan, shaped them like a lens, and put it over the top of each led pack to increase peripheral visibility. They work great. At long distances I can see the lights really well and I can tell the attitude and direction its facing. It also gives me piece of mind that its highly visible to anyone else nearby. I don't always use all four, but I always use at least one.

I don't mind answering to the FAA for any decision I've made. It's all about risk management. In general, I think it's a good idea to follow the laws.

 

[Joe Boudreault]

I have yet to take my Part 107, but it appears that doesn't really offer much of an answer for VLOS. Obviously conditions will drastically impact any set distance...

My question I guess is how far do you feel comfortable flying your drone on a clear day? Obviously observing all rules of not flying over other humans etc... I live near a large park and I was quite surprised to see that the 3 mile radius from my house covers the entire park. I haven't taken my M2Z beyond 1000ft distance, and so I don't know that I'm willing to fly beyond 1 mile, but curious how many people do that on a regular basis.

Don't fly any farther than 50% of your battery power takes you.

 

[STUFF2C]

I bought 4 firehouse white strobes for daytime operations. The front pair I put on fast strobe and the rear I put on slow strobe. I took a thick piece of lexan, shaped them like a lens, and put it over the top of each led pack to increase peripheral visibility. They work great. At long distances I can see the lights really well and I can tell the attitude and direction its facing. It also gives me piece of mind that its highly visible to anyone else nearby. I don't always use all four, but I always use at least one.

I don't mind answering to the FAA for any decision I've made. It's all about risk management. In general, I think it's a good idea to follow the laws.

Pictures?

 

[Jet skier]

1500 feet is the sweet spot for me as well. Approximately a quarter of a mile +/- 500’

With that said, no matter what the distance is I spend the bulk of my attention on signal strength. If that starts going south I’m coming back fast. Past 1500 feet, line of sight is useless and everybody knows it. The data found on the screen or in my goggles are what allows me to fly safely, not some arbitrary subjective rule dreamed up by some bureaucrat

You are spot on. Any body that says they can see what there drone is doing past 1500' is not being truthful

 

[Jet skier]

I think it depends a lot on the area also. I tend to worry about power lines if you don't know the area real well ,you can not see them. In the city I worry about people that get annoyed from the sound