Interesting. Flying near prisons in Western Australia

[Davros007]

Interesting. Near where I live in Western Australia is a maximum security prison. Male Nasty Pasties from far and wide. Nearby are some nice beaches and wind turbines. I cannot see any restrictions, apart from the normal CASA (Aussie FAA) rules, to flying there. I asked CASA directly, their response:
“CASA has a strict aviation safety remit and cannot impose operating restrictions outside of this. There maybe other rules from other Authorities that may prevent you from flying near a prison. I think Victoria do this, currently. I am unaware of any others at this current point in time”.
[Removed my jest about overflight as it was coming out as a top google search result!]
Just for the heck of it, I might ask the prison their opinion of a drone circling the perimeter. But on the subject, what are the laws elsewhere? US - let me guess... fly near one, end up in one - for 125 years or death, whatever comes first? UK? And anyone have experience in Australia?? I would have thought them a no-go area. But it’s not clear here at all.

 

[Duds]

Here in South Africa it's considered a no fly zone as it should be.
NFZ include police stations, prisons, nuclear power stations, strategic government buildings etc and obviously airports etc.

 

[BadWolf1]

In the UK the DJI makes even low security prisons no fly areas. The authorities have recognised a problem with drones being used to drop contraband into prisons. Normal aircraft can fly where they can see into a prison so footage of the inside isn't the main issue - at least that's how understand it, not going near enough to find out for sure

 

[cyeung]

Do you have a map that shows where the beach, wind turbines, and prison are? Maybe it is possible to get shots of those whilst avoiding the prison.

 

[bushie]

I have never seen any rules published here in WA. CASA only seem interested in flight safety as per their remit

 

[Meta4]

I might ask the prison their opinion of a drone circling the perimeter.

Instead of wondering out loud about doing something very stupid, contact the relevant department and ask them directly.
You'll find they don't have any sense of humour on the topic that interests you and can explain quite clearly what rules apply.

Page Redirection

 

[Davros007]

Instead of wondering out loud about doing something very stupid, contact the relevant department and ask them directly.
You'll find they don't have any sense of humour on the topic that interests you and can explain quite clearly what rules apply.

Page Redirection

Of course! But it’s interesting that CASA does not know. Absolutely nothing wrong with wondering - and seeking others experience! Many’s the time I’ve found the “the department” actually don’t know, but say what they want. For example, WA firearms department used to state categorically that you need “x” size land for “y” size gun. I pushed it and you don’t. They changed their website statement to reflect such. But if I had only asked them, that’s what I would have been told. Looking up the act, it was not a law at all. Ended up with the gun I want to use on the property I want! I’ll let you all know what Corrective Services say.

 

[Davros007]

Here in South Africa it's considered a no fly zone as it should be.
NFZ include police stations, prisons, nuclear power stations, strategic government buildings etc and obviously airports etc.

Here, I don’t know about prisons, but any of those other buildings are just buildings! You can photograph what you like, or fly near, within rules. Our tourism “travel safety” adds actually state to “beware” in other countries, that they have these kind of laws. Here they would be considered overreach - but we don’t have the issues of many places where security is understandably higher.

 

[Davros007]

Do you have a map that shows where the beach, wind turbines, and prison are? Maybe it is possible to get shots of those whilst avoiding the prison.

Yes - you could. But I wondered if there are any no fly zones. And also if anyone was actually interested in pictures of the prison just because it would be interesting. It is admittedly an interesting structure, and people would like to see it from above.
Also if you had a fly-away, what you might be up for!

 

[Davros007]

Queensland is pretty straightforward for over-flight:
Deputy Commissioner Andy Beck warns that people caught flying drones over Queensland prisons can be sentenced to two years in jail and fined more than $12,000.

 

[Meta4]

But it’s interesting that CASA does not know.

It's not something I would expect CASA to know because it has nothing to do with them..
Their business is aviation safety, not prison management.

Prisons are a little touchy about drones because they have been used many times to deliver contraband.
Fly a drone close around a prison and you can expect to get some attention you don't want to have to deal with.

 

[Peter Hughes]

I imagine if you start to fly anywhere in the world too close to a prison you’ll find out very quickly who knows what about the permissibility.
Flying a drone can be contentious at the best of times. The public are given all sorts of stories in the press about drones being flown in a dangerous manner etc.
Why look to further this negative attitude?
Western Australia is a big place, I’m pretty certain there are other beaches and wind farms around, fly there with no worries of someone in authority taking an interest in you.

Take care.

Pete

 

[Davros007]

I imagine if you start to fly anywhere in the world too close to a prison you’ll find out very quickly who knows what about the permissibility.
Flying a drone can be contentious at the best of times. The public are given all sorts of stories in the press about drones being flown in a dangerous manner etc.
Why look to further this negative attitude?
Western Australia is a big place, I’m pretty certain there are other beaches and wind farms around, fly there with no worries of someone in authority taking an interest in you.

Take care.

Pete

I’m not going to fly near it! But: I’m all for making sure that laws are always respected. A prime example is in the UK with “rights of way”. These are walk tracks that go through private farms, and a farmer cannot hinder those who want to walk through. However, if the right of way is not used for a period of time, my understanding is that it can be closed. So, no matter how annoyed a farmer may be, walking groups make sure to use them. In comparison, the same can be said of laws - start driving slower or accepting its too hard to get a semi-auto weapon, or paying a ridiculous surcharge, and it will become a new law. More laws are not always good and are to often made by politicians to impress the public!
It is my belief that whilst laws are not made to be broken, they are also for ALL to respect. If it’s legal to run around in the park naked, because of some ancient religious movement that used to gather there, then someone SHOULD be able, without any hinderance, to do it. Laws should NEVER totally reflect wants of minorities or authorities - or else we end up in nanny-states very quickly. For example, if it is legal to fly “to a minimum of 100m of a prison wall” then that should be very public, and authorities and flyers should have to operate with that.
Without constantly ensuring that ALL respect the laws, “wants” by authority or whiners become “rules” and all of a sudden people are interpreting “rules” as Law. Happens all the time. “Just because it’s legal does not make it right” is a false statement - what is right or wrong is in the eyes of x or y person. If it’s legal, it’s legal. Just my perspective and how I see that by tolerating those who may do something “out there” (BASE jumping, long distance shooting, eating challenges, running bulls) I hope they in turn tolerate my freedoms!

 

[Simmo]

Drones flying drugs into WA jails

WA State Government to conduct urgent review of prison security measures.

thewest.com.au

Stop Trying to Fly Drugs Into Prisons With Drones

At least six people have tried this in Australia in the past few months. Zero have succeeded.

www.vice.com

Dirty Dozen: 12 ways your drone can land you in trouble | Flight Safety Australia

Drones are becoming increasingly popular throughout society—being flown by kids with no aviation knowledge at the local park or by experienced pilots conducting complex commercial operations. With this popularity comes an increasing awareness of how your drone can land you in trouble. Over the la

www.flightsafetyaustralia.com

 

[bushie]

Drones flying drugs into WA jails

WA State Government to conduct urgent review of prison security measures.

thewest.com.au

Stop Trying to Fly Drugs Into Prisons With Drones

At least six people have tried this in Australia in the past few months. Zero have succeeded.

www.vice.com

Dirty Dozen: 12 ways your drone can land you in trouble | Flight Safety Australia

Drones are becoming increasingly popular throughout society—being flown by kids with no aviation knowledge at the local park or by experienced pilots conducting complex commercial operations. With this popularity comes an increasing awareness of how your drone can land you in trouble. Over the la

www.flightsafetyaustralia.com

None of these articles really answer the question about legality in WA, and the article from Flight Safety is so full of half truths it is a joke.

 

[Davros007]

None of these articles really answer the question about legality in WA, and the article from Flight Safety is so full of half truths it is a joke.

That’s it! That’s exactly what drives me crazy!!!! “It’s so bad, so crazy, people should know better yadada!” But what is the LAW?! Yes, I TOTALLY advocate doing what police/authorities tell you to do. BUT I don’t just assume they are right. However, authorities SHOULD be at least informed before giving directions or issuing fines. Why I enjoy discussions like this is how if oft reveals that people’s assumptions about laws are actually not based on fact, just feelings and local custom. That’s fine, until police implement those feelings and customs as if they are law, and some poor ? doesn’t have the $$$ for a lawyer to defend themselves!

 

[bushie]

The whole legal situation re drones is certainly vague here in OZ. The problem is that most of the power lies with the commonwealth, not the states, and Canberra is not all that interested and has much bigger fish to fry. CASA don't really want to know but have the responsibility. The states handed over most of their powers in relation to aviation to the Commonwealth way back when, but much of that has never been tested in court so no one is sure what the law is. Suddenly the states are faced with thousands of unlicensed users of drones that the laws were not really written for and it is very unclear what, if any, the states or their instruments (The local authorities) have the power to do. Drones also impact privacy etc in a way that aviation did not. It will take a long time until case law and maybe a few high court decisions sort it all out. Meanwhile we are left to find our way through the morass.

(I am not legally trained so this is just a lay opinion)

 

[Meta4]

The whole legal situation re drones is certainly vague here in OZ. The problem is that most of the power lies with the commonwealth, not the states, and Canberra is not all that interested and has much bigger fish to fry. CASA don't really want to know but have the responsibility.

It's not a Commonwealth issue, the prison is a state prison.
It's not a CASA issue, you can fly over the prison in a Cessna.
But buzz around your local park and the local concil might have issues with you just as the prison will have issues with anyone that buzzes around their prison with a drone.

 

[bushie]

It's not a Commonwealth issue, the prison is a state prison.
It's not a CASA issue, you can fly over the prison in a Cessna.
But buzz around your local park and the local concil might have issues with you just as the prison will have issues with anyone that buzzes around their prison with a drone.

That is the whole point. The prison, run by the state, cannot impose any airspace restriction, only CASA can do that, same as the local council cannot impose restriction on flying over their park. My local council was going to prevent taking of and landing in their parks and received legal advice that they did not have the powers to do so. I know many councils do have bans but they have not been tested in court. The prison authority may claim they can stop you flying, but provided you comply with the CASA regs re distance from people etc. you may win in a court case. Again i am not legally trained and you would need deep pockets to take on the state government.

I am not for a moment suggesting it is wise to fly over prisons, just that there are a lot of legal grey areas

 

[Davros007]

So. Reply from Corrective Services NOTE WESTERN AUSTRALIA ONLY!!:

Thanks for your inquiry. CASA rules apply in regard to drone use around prisons. It needs to be emphasised that prisons are secure locations and prisoners have the right to privacy. Any person detected flying a drone over a prison may be identified by drone detection technology and approached by staff responsible for securing the prison perimeter to determine the reason they are there. Corrective Services has legislative powers to seize any items likely to put staff or prisoners at risk. There are also serious consequences for introducing or attempting to introduce contraband or illicit drugs into a prison.

So : not illegal - within CASA. But don’t be a moron and do it. But this is worth knowing if you get a flyaway near a prison or inadvertently fly over a prison-farm in WA.And why you won’t get a restricted area from DJI or Can I Fly There app.