Las Vegas Airport - Drone Flying Over Plane

[ac0j]

"Oct 13, 2016 - Gulls are the most common birds involved in bird strike incidents. Bird strikes cost the aviation industry about $900 million each year. In 2013, about 11,300 bird and wildlife strikes occurred in the United States."

From one of the MANY, MANY articles on the bird strike issue that turn up with a simple google search.
11,300 strikes in one year........ Seems AT LEAST fairly common.
I do know that all commercial pilots are supposed to be trained for them, It sounds like your students dont need it.
Because according to you,
"I've been in the industry for over 30 years, including certifying other captains and FO's on international routes, and I didn't know that. That's either because I'm unaware, or it's not true."
So which is it then?

 

[787steve]

The teacher becomes the student......
30 years and never heard of this? I have NEVER been in the industry, but I have talked to many who are, and they say bird strikes are fairly common. Guess they were not trained properly, or they are stupid.

30 years and I had several a year. I have spoken to several friends with similar time in the air and their recollections were pretty much the same. Almost all were smaller birds which we either did not see, or just caught a flash out of the corner or my eye. Normally we would hear a muffled "thunk" sound, as most hit under the nose of the airplane. I do not recall any on takeoff. All that come to mind were on approach. They were not a particularly major event, but when we were aware, we always reported them in the aircraft log book. I can only remember a few that were larger birds which might have caused problems.
As mentioned in other posts, I took a bird through the nose of a Marine A-4 which penetrated partially through the instrument panel. And I had a friend who took one through the canopy and hit him in the head resulting in an ejection. Both incidents happened in south Texas in the 70's. Both airplanes were at low altitude and high speed.
The helmet in my profile is similar to how his looked. Someone earlier asked me about the paint job. It isn't a paint job, it is bird guts! Birds can bring down airplanes

 

[Lopez0015]

"Oct 13, 2016 - Gulls are the most common birds involved in bird strike incidents. Bird strikes cost the aviation industry about $900 million each year. In 2013, about 11,300 bird and wildlife strikes occurred in the United States."

From one of the MANY, MANY articles on the bird strike issue that turn up with a simple google search.
11,300 strikes in one year........ Seems AT LEAST fairly common.
I do know that all commercial pilots are supposed to be trained for them, It sounds like your students dont need it.
Because according to you,
"I've been in the industry for over 30 years, including certifying other captains and FO's on international routes, and I didn't know that. That's either because I'm unaware, or it's not true."
So which is it then?

Is not. How many planes fly a year on US?

 

[ac0j]

Is not. How many planes fly a year on US?

I dont care how many, this amounts to like 35 strikes PER DAY in 2016 JUST in the USA. I am sticking to fairly common. Very few of these lead to emergency situations by percentage.

 

[ascension]

"Oct 13, 2016 - Gulls are the most common birds involved in bird strike incidents. Bird strikes cost the aviation industry about $900 million each year. In 2013, about 11,300 bird and wildlife strikes occurred in the United States."

From one of the MANY, MANY articles on the bird strike issue that turn up with a simple google search.
11,300 strikes in one year........ Seems AT LEAST fairly common.
I do know that all commercial pilots are supposed to be trained for them, It sounds like your students dont need it.
Because according to you,
"I've been in the industry for over 30 years, including certifying other captains and FO's on international routes, and I didn't know that. That's either because I'm unaware, or it's not true."
So which is it then?

I don't want to make this personal.
You seem to want to, but you are fighting a fight that is ridiculous.
There are over 105,000 airline flights per day, 37.4 million in 2014.
11,300 sounds pretty low to me, and that includes all strikes, not just birds, and not just airlines.
All aviation.

You stated that "all commercial pilots are supposed to be trained for them."
I would like you to expound on that.
How are they trained, and how do you know?

Further...I don't have "students."
The folks I certified are multi year airline pilots transitioning to the 757, 767 or 777.
They are professional airline pilots with decades of experience.
Hardly "students."

 

[787steve]

Left side is a still frame from the controversial video. Right side is Google satellite view. Click image for larger version.




Where did all of the swimming pools go in the faked video? Look at the long vertical row of homes to the left of the airliner's nose. The fence line at the rear of those homes is right up against the rear of the homes and all swimming pools have vanished. Where are the cars in the parking lot? Where is the detail that modern drones are capable of? A still grab of my iPad mini's screen is far more detailed than that.

I forget the name of the video game. The game maker added a "drone" feature to the game fairly recently. The game maker doesn't put brand names on objects but someone in another thread linked an add-on that's downloadable for the game to put a name on airliners seen in the game. And, surprise, the only available airliner name via that add-on is Frontier.

It is fake. I suspected it was fake the moment I saw it.

Mark

I am unconvinced. The fact that GTA has a drone feature doesn't mean this is from that.
As to the clarity of the picture, I have heard that racing drones don't have cameras optimized for thousands of feet away., but rather for shorter range obstacles. I will let a racing droner comment on that. I did look at several on line and you would not confuse them with MAVIC footage.

As to why no cars on the parking lot. If you go to Google Earth and select 3D mode, you may make out that the big empty lot is next to a building with a steeple on the front. Churches often have empty parking lots during much of the week.

And when the "fake" tape starts, you san see a couple little yaw twitches that look a lot like some of my bad Mavic videos. The footage I found on line from GTA was very different.

Lastly, in this article in Forbes, " JayO", who is being looked at by the Feds said it was a friend's, and while he did post it, he didn't take it. With the Feds after him, wouldn't he just have said it was fake if that was the case?

I could be wrong about all of this. Can you say where you found that it had been shown to be fake?
Thanks

 

[ac0j]

I don't want to make this personal.
You seem to want to, but you are fighting a fight that is ridiculous.
There are over 105,000 airline flights per day, 37.4 million in 2014.
11,300 sounds pretty low to me, and that includes all strikes, not just birds, and not just airlines.
All aviation.

You stated that "all commercial pilots are supposed to be trained for them."
I would like you to expound on that.
How are they trained, and how do you know?

Further...I don't have "students."
The folks I certified are multi year airline pilots transitioning to the 757, 767 or 777.
They are professional airline pilots with decades of experience.
Hardly "students."

I just read about training and frequency of bird strikes after you said they werent that common. I thought "wait a minute...."
787Steve just posted that they were "fairly common" in his personal piloting experience over 30 years. just 1 pilot! Not an argument really, I just posted an article of fact to the contrary of your thoughts. You are posting your opinion, I am mine of which we are both entitled to do. Lets let the readers make up their own minds based on what they read. I personally dont care if they agree with you or me, I just think they need more than one opinion on what is common and what is not.

 

[ascension]

I asked you a very specific question.
I will repeat it:
"all commercial pilots are supposed to be trained for them."
I'm asking you how you know this and what is the training.

Further, if 787steve will post or message me what airline he works for, I will contact his union safety info and find out just many they have had.
We share all kinds of information, as I'm sure he knows.
I will gladly post our data.

 

[787steve]

I don't want to make this personal.
You seem to want to, but you are fighting a fight that is ridiculous.
There are over 105,000 airline flights per day, 37.4 million in 2014.
11,300 sounds pretty low to me, and that includes all strikes, not just birds, and not just airlines.
All aviation.

You stated that "all commercial pilots are supposed to be trained for them."
I would like you to expound on that.
How are they trained, and how do you know?

Further...I don't have "students."
The folks I certified are multi year airline pilots transitioning to the 757, 767 or 777.
They are professional airline pilots with decades of experience.
Hardly "students."

I spent the last three years of my 30+ year career training international crews for Boeing on the 787. We actually had a simulator button that would cue a flock of birds to intercept the airplane. You could see them coming, then you heard and felt the impacts. The engine instruments would fluctuate wildly, then settle down. It was the first sim I ever saw with that feature.
But, training for bird strikes as a particular event was not in any syllabus i ever experienced. But basically any time you practice in flight engine failure, you are training for the worst expected damage from bird strike. You can't train for everything, but an engine failure is an engine failure, as far as a sim goes.

 

[ac0j]

I asked you a very specific question.
I will repeat it:
"all commercial pilots are supposed to be trained for them."
I'm asking you how you know this and what is the training.

Further, if 787steve will post or message me what airline he works for, I will contact his union safety info and find out just many they have had.
We share all kinds of information, as I'm sure he knows.
I will gladly post our data.

OK, calm down, I told you I did a search about bird strikes after you said they were not common. I read three or so articles, and posted a couple things I read in those articles. Including the pert that pilots are trained for bird strikes, and that approximately 35 wildlife strikes happened every single day in 2016 in the US. NOT my opinion, but results of my search.

You say 11,300 strikes a year is NOT enough to be called common, I say it is enough to be called fairly common. end of story, that is all I am saying.
As a reference, I would say that school shootings are not common, People born with 7 fingers on one hand is not common.

 

[787steve]

I asked you a very specific question.
I will repeat it:
"all commercial pilots are supposed to be trained for them."
I'm asking you how you know this and what is the training.

Further, if 787steve will post or message me what airline he works for, I will contact his union safety info and find out just many they have had.
We share all kinds of information, as I'm sure he knows.
I will gladly post our data.

I suspect my "union safety info", whatever that means, is the same as yours. ALPA.
I recall when you said you would like to see the accident report on my bird strike in the A-4. You seemed to be questioning my integrity. I didn't like it then, and I don't like it now. You said you had 30 years in the airline industry. Were you a pilot? Because, truthfully some of the things you say, and terms you use, just don't quite pass the smell test.

 

[787steve]

Nonsense.
I'm sure Mr. Givens is a nice, honest man, but the airline industry records all of this, and all are inspected closely.
You almost always see a bird that ends in a strike, and you always see those that are so good at avoiding airplanes, which they almost all are.

How would you know? You only had three, right?

 

[ascension]

I suspect my "union safety info", whatever that means, is the same as yours. ALPA.
I recall when you said you would like to see the accident report on my bird strike in the A-4. You seemed to be questioning my integrity. I didn't like it then, and I don't like it now. You said you had 30 years in the airline industry. Were you a pilot? Because, truthfully some of the things you say, and terms you use, just don't quite pass the smell test.

Really?
I was interested in your birdstrike because I thought I would have seen it in an accident report, which as you know, we all read.
It had nothing to do with your credibility or "integrity," neither of which I care about.
Regarding my bona fides, which you seem to question, you claim to have been in Kingsville in 1978, as I recall.
I have no problem with that.
I was in Beeville the same year, went on to the A7 on Kitty Hawk, then TopGun as an adversary and VA127 in Lemoore.
30 years with American, years as a 757,767,777 check airman.
Glad to provide anything to erase your doubts.

 

[ac0j]

Thanks steve!

Geesh..... All I was doing was replying to his first comment about bird strikes happening often;

"I've been in the industry for over 30 years, including certifying other captains and FO's on international routes, and I didn't know that.
That's either because I'm unaware, or it's not true.

It was either the person he was replying to was a liar, or he was "unaware" I researched for a couple minutes, and it looked like the latter.....
Sorry now that I even replied!

 

[ascension]

Sorry now that I even replied!

Can you answer the question I have asked, without all the backpeddling?
You said you "knew" all commercial pilots were trained in birdstrikes.
I'm asking you to tell me who and how.
Not hard.

 

[ac0j]

Can you answer the question I have asked, without all the backpeddling?
You said you "knew" all commercial pilots were trained in birdstrikes.
I'm asking you to tell me who and how.
Not hard.

Holy cow man! Is being right worth all the veins sticking out on your forehead right now?
I told you I read it. Here are some links to how I "know" this...
Bird Strikes: How common are they? - Airport Lifestyle

Maybe you are misinterpreting it a bit? are you wanting me to believe that pilots are NOT trained to handle a plane after a birdstrike that causes engine failure? I am sorry, I refuse to believe that!
787Steve just told you there was a simulator for it where he was training.

 

[ascension]

Holy cow man! Is being right worth all the veins sticking out on your forehead right now?
I told you I read it. Here are some links to how I "know" this...
Bird Strikes: How common are they? - Airport Lifestyle

Maybe you are misinterpreting it a bit? are you wanting me to believe that pilots are NOT trained to handle a plane after a birdstrike that causes engine failure? I am sorry, I refuse to believe that!
787Steve just told you there was a simulator for it where he was training.

There are no veins sticking out.
I could not care less.
You made a statement.
I am involved in that operation, and I am unaware of anyone who does it, let alone "all."
Simple enough?

 

[ac0j]

There are no veins sticking out.
I could not care less.
You made a statement.
I am involved in that operation, and I am unaware of anyone who does it, let alone "all."
Simple enough?

That is my point, YOU said a to person earlier "I'm unaware, or it's not true" 787Steve said he did it, the website I linked said it, and also the FAA page on birdstrikes that I read in its entirety said pilots were trained as well, BUT that was buried too deep in the reading for me to find and link to.
Just saying it seems more TRUE than not. Sorry it ruffled your feathers! I did not intend to discredit, just to educate.
One of my Favorite highschool teachers (years ago!) was an art/photograpy teacher, and the golf coach. I was in all of his classes. I often asked him why he didnt golf professionally, or be a professional Artisit or Photographer. His answer to me was "those who can, do. Those who cant, teach!" I loved that guy!

 

[ascension]

Hey Steve.
Did you delete a post?
It showed up in a notice, and claimed it was in this thread, but it seems to be gone.
To respond to the questions you posed in it:

When you first claimed your birdstrike, you did not indicate it was in a TA4 or A4.
The post read like an airline incident, which I would have surely recalled, since there have only been a very few that have penetrated the airframe, as you described.
One in my airline in 32 years.
I would surely have remembered it.

So....There was no effort to discredit it.
I was just suspicious that it was not an airline incident, which it wasn't.
I have no personal feelings about this issue whatsoever.

My one and only point in this and other similar discussions is to point out how the drone community is foolish to claim that bird danger is far more serious than drone mishandling.
Birds and airplanes have been operating together for over a century, and pretty well, if you ask me.
Goofy people operating drones in dangerous areas are stupid.
It's that simple.

 

[ac0j]

Hey Steve.
Did you delete a post?
It showed up in a notice, and claimed it was in this thread, but it seems to be gone.
To respond to the questions you posed in it

Steve uses the private message from time to time. Click the little envelope in the upper right to see if what he sent you is there!