Line of Sight - Really?

[BigAl07]

Thank you for the correction and the link. I was basing my recollection upon the early media reports, which clearly should not be relied upon, especially when we now have a full NTSB report! Good information for all of us to learn from! At least it helps corroborate my experience that DJI signal loss initiated RTH and blind returning is extremely rare, when RTH signal loss settings are set properly, and clear LOS is maintained, with VLOS for awareness of any manned aircraft. Flying at the extreme of signal control is always foolish, and risky, and using RTH as your default method of ending a mission establishes the pilot's inexperience. These toys in the wrong hands can be dangerous!

Very well said. I completely agree across the board.

 

[dwolfe002]

You're making too many assumptions. The big companies like Amazon and Uber will eventually have everything in place to effectively and safely carry out their drone delivery operations - starting with ADS B In and Out, and they simply won't be operating in areas where low flying aircraft are likely to be operating. On the other side of the fence, the FAA (and others) will also make it crystal clear via NOTAM where and when drone deliveries are being conducted. You said it yourself - these guys are spending millions on the tech along with some of the smartest A.I. developers on the planet - they will leave no stone unturned in order to convince the authorities that their endeavours should be allowed to go into full production.

In terms of size- there was never any intention to use small drones. Have you seen the drones that are being used in the trials? They are big machines with heavy lifting capabilities. BVLOS waivers will be approved for the big players who can prove themselves to be worthy of being granted same. It's now only a matter of how soon and it's really not relevant to be comparing recreational drone flyers (chalk) with large corporations (cheese) when discussing airspace regulations.

I thought DJI was coming out with ADS B In which would help with the problem. I didn't say anybody would be operating in an area where low flying aircraft are LIKELY to be operating but I have seen it around my house several times and I know they are probably not following the rules. They come off the beach flying low and continue on. The only problem I have with that is that it is my fault if they hit me. I do not know if ADS B IN or Out is required in all airplanes and I don't know that it gives you any kind of heading and if that is true then you still can't necessarily avoid anything. You just know it is close but the plane may not even have it even if Amazons drones have both. If these deliveries get popular I don't see the FAA issuing a NOTAM but maybe once a year for all areas. I can't see them keeping up with drone deliveries.



Merry Christmas all!

 

[Earthman]

Attaching a small bright LED facing backwards to the rear base of the Mavic with velcro means that if you rotate it you can identify it and pull back on the lever to bring it towards you. It makes it much more visible, especially on a cloudy day.

I do the same thing using a small, two-AAA cell LED flashlight that cost about $10. It works well especially against a dark background. I'm going to experiment with a DIY LED light as well. In any case, I still keep my expensive UAVs close.

 

[dwolfe002]

To expect we might enjoy any type of consent, as hobbyists, to operate BVLOS with toy grade drones absent any certification or agreed and approved operating conditions requires a significant level of arrogance and ignorance.

I never said anything about not having operating conditions but that does go both ways. Airplanes and drones. I can say I always follow the rules but I have seen airplane pilots that obviously aren't following the altitude rules. I on the other hand fly at 200 ft. at most and always within VLOS. So, leave the arrogance and ignorance for others. I just don't see a reason why a recreational flyer can't fly BVLOS and still follow all other rules which shouldn't be infringed on by others upon their discretion when they want to break the rules.

 

[WithTheBirds]

I never said anything about not having operating conditions but that does go both ways. Airplanes and drones. I can say I always follow the rules but I have seen airplane pilots that obviously aren't following the altitude rules. I on the other hand fly at 200 ft. at most and always within VLOS. So, leave the arrogance and ignorance for others. I just don't see a reason why a recreational flyer can't fly BVLOS and still follow all other rules which shouldn't be infringed on by others upon their discretion when they want to break the rules.

To think anyone who might buy a cheap toy sUAV should have right of way in a potential conflict scenario with a manned AC would be, at best, short sighted.

 

[GadgetGuy]

I have grave concerns about any type of drone delivery service in urban areas, without a total concurrent ban of all recreational drone flying in the same airspace, even within VLOS. The biggest risk I fear when flying VLOS is collision with another unexpected drone. None of the existing DJI drones in our possession have ADS B receivers or transmitters. How will these new autonomously operated drone deliveries coexist in the same airspace with legally operated recreational drones sold before 2020, let alone illegally operated ones?

 

[dwolfe002]

To think anyone who might buy a cheap toy sUAV should have right of way in a potential conflict scenario with a manned AC would be, at best, short sighted.

No, I don't believe that a drone should have the right away in a conflict scenario but I do believe that if I have to follow the rules the everyone else should have to. I really don't see how that is being short sighted. If the planes follow the rules then all I would have to worry about is Amazon unless they are given 400 - 500 ft. Then I don't have anything to worry about and neither does any one else. I really don't even care if I'm restricted to 200 - 300 ft. and they all get the rest. I still don't understand why I can't fly BVLOS and others can just because I have a toy and they have the real drones.

 

[dwolfe002]

I have grave concerns about any type of drone delivery service in urban areas, without a total concurrent ban of all recreational drone flying in the same airspace, even within VLOS. The biggest risk I fear when flying VLOS is collision with another unexpected drone. None of the existing DJI drones in our possession have ADS B receivers or transmitters. How will these new autonomously operated drone deliveries coexist in the same airspace with legally operated recreational drones sold before 2020, let alone illegally operated ones?

I don't really have a problem with the drone deliveries but then again I don't live in a heavily populated place. I think if it becomes a problem they will have to further divide the airspace and everyone will have to play by the rules to make it work. Whether or not they eventually allow us to fly BVLOS.

 

[WithTheBirds]

I don't really have a problem with the drone deliveries but then again I don't live in a heavily populated place. I think if it becomes a problem they will have to further divide the airspace and everyone will have to play by the rules to make it work. Whether or not they eventually allow us to fly BVLOS.

From what I understand (and it isn’t a great deal), from information in the public domain, the various systems being developed for low altitude unmanned operations will ultimately allow for deconflicted operations by numerous businesses and services in shared airspace. It is envisaged that as this ecosystem develops recreational drone operations will be incorporated. Good question is how.

As things stand now however we can only imagine the monumental task aviation authorities already have to try and ensure civil aviation and other regulated commercial operations are conducted safely. It is easy to see how mandated VLOS for hobbyists might go a long way to avoiding incidents. We have a significantly enhanced opportunity to avoid a collision (regardless of who might be at fault) if we are close enough to maintain spatial awareness and take the appropriate evasive action.

 

[deleted member 877]

I still don't understand why I can't fly BVLOS and others can just because I have a toy and they have the real drones.

At this point, after all of the explanations provided above, you will probably just have to try being content in not understanding why it is what it is. But kudos to you for adhering to the VLOS regulation even though you're not happy with it - that sets a good example for others to follow.

 

[deleted member 877]

From what I understand (and it isn’t a great deal), from information in the public domain, the various systems being developed for low altitude unmanned operations will ultimately allow for deconflicted operations by numerous businesses and services in shared airspace. It is envisaged that as this ecosystem develops recreational drone operations will be incorporated. Good question is how.

Yes, the task of juggling (via automated systems) all of the airborne UAS traffic is going to be challenging to say the least. For my part I will be happy to continue operating around sparsely populated beaches and rural settings where drone delivery won't be happening.

 

[Chip]

...I still don't understand why I can't fly BVLOS and others can just because I have a toy and they have the real drones.

The best way to put it is because they can. It’s the golden rule. Those who have the gold also have the guns and make the rules.

 

[GadgetGuy]

Yes, the task of juggling (via automated systems) all of the airborne UAS traffic is going to be challenging to say the least. For my part I will be happy to continue operating around sparsely populated beaches and rural settings where drone delivery won't be happening.

Actually, I would think that sparsely populated areas and rural settings are those most suited for remote drone deliveries, where the economies of scale can't justify a truck delivery. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. Stay tuned!

 

[WithTheBirds]

Actually, I would think that sparsely populated areas and rural settings are those most suited for remote drone deliveries, where the economies of scale can't justify a truck delivery. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. Stay tuned!

The remote areas are where you likely have the better chance of encountering a low flying aircraft.

 

[GadgetGuy]

The remote areas are where you likely have the better chance of encountering a low flying aircraft.

Indeed!

 

[deleted member 877]

The remote areas are where you likely have the better chance of encountering a low flying aircraft.

I suppose I have been lucky. I have never seen any other aircraft anywhere near where I have mostly been operating - except for passenger jets at 30K feet. No one lives out there either so I don't know who are going to be the recipients of any deliveries - Drone based or otherwise.

 

[dwolfe002]

The remote areas are where you likely have the better chance of encountering a low flying aircraft.

Most definitely but aren't they supposed to be at 500 ft. and above. I have even had a Marine Corps jet fly by at around 600 ft. I thought for a short time that was why my windows were about to rattle out of their frames but come to find out he dropped a live bomb about 3/4 of a mile offshore because he hit the wrong button. About a mile and a quarter from my house. But then again, I would get fined to the hilt for flying BVLOS with my dangerous drone at 200'. He's probably still flying jets.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

It is envisaged that as this ecosystem develops recreational drone operations will be incorporated. Good question is how.

It will be ADS-B or some similar tech.
DJI have already said future drones will have this, haven't they ?

Australia doesn't have mandatory ADS-B in all light aircraft, but if this automation is going to work, they will probably have to bring it in and retro fit all light manned aircraft, especially helis in urban areas.
Airfields be they controlled or uncontrolled will have some sort of airspace control, or rely on ADS-B.

 

[dwolfe002]

Actually, I would think that sparsely populated areas and rural settings are those most suited for remote drone deliveries, where the economies of scale can't justify a truck delivery. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. Stay tuned!

That's what I think. Along with the commercial drones, the low flying planes in this area, and recreational drones, it will be interesting for sure.

 

[FoxhallGH]

The remote areas are where you likely have the better chance of encountering a low flying aircraft.

I recall that when I trained for my Private Pilot's License, we had 'designated' geographical low-flying areas. We used these areas a lot to practise 'forced-landings' in case of engine failure, as well as just simply flying low. If you have Pilot training facilities / Aero Clubs in your area, it would be a good idea to contact them and find out where those low flying areas are. I'm sure they wouldn't hesitate to give you that info if they knew that you had their safety in mind.