Line of Sight - Really?

[pross]

In South Africa we don't have such problems as this... as long as we dont fly near airports and Harbours and Prisons we ok... We can fly as much as we want and there's been no cases and headaches... We Fly Free and as far as the DJi Goggles can see... Just saying. Fly Safe and Enjoy!

Really? Says otherwise on the caa.co.za website.

 

[Walter Lea]

Really? Says otherwise on the caa.co.za website.

There are rules in place, but not enough manpower to enforce it. We have a beautiful country ... and i'll keep my post positive.. ...

 

[Walter Lea]

Really? Says otherwise on the caa.co.za website.

When I used to Paraglide the airports would pick us up and track us on our transponders if we didn't plan our cross country routes... but never have they picked up our drones....

 

[Applegate]

Hmmm
As an amateur aviation enthusiast I have always interpereted VLOS to mean a line on which an object could be seen if it were large enough. Similar to VFR for flying full scale planes. In other words don't put a mountain or other Large object between you and the drone thus defeating your line of sight. To some degree we must trust the control systems built into our drones. No one wants to lose a drone but if you only fly them where u can see them then you will be missing a lot of what they are designed to do. Just my two cents. ?

 

[deleted member 877]

All you can do is remind the poster and encourage legal flight.

Bump

 

[Donnie Frank]

Maybe this has already be presented, but just in case, here it is:

My Mavic 2Z has a body roughly 0.25 ft wide. This is the most visible part when flying away or toward the pilot. Now the accepted angular resolution of the human eye is about 1/60 degree or 0.000291 radian.
Calculations:
Distance X Angle (in radians) = Arc length
Distance X 0.000921 = 0.25 ft whence distance = 859 ft or 0.16 mile.

Now even if we up the angular resolution of your eye by a factor of 4, we get about .064 mile straight line.

Note: if the drone is at h=300 ft, the horizontal distance is 804 ft.

I challenge anyone to let someone fly your drone out somewhere randomly to a distance of, say 0.64 mile, while you keep your back turned and then you turn around and see the drone.

Who flies their Mavic 2 drone no farther than 1000 feet? As for myself, I have trouble seeing it four or five hundred feet away.

While mapping with our P4P's, my partner and myself often challenge one another to "find the missing drone." If one of us keeps eyes on without turning away for even a second, our world record is about 2400', which highly depends on the color of the sky, the position of the sun, and the color of the drone. He has an Obsidian P4P. Mine is the plain ol' white. Some days, the thing disappears completely @ 1,000' or so. And these drones have a much bigger footprint than the Mavic Pro. I haven't really challenged myself to keep my eyes on the ol' Mavic Pro, but I would guess 800' max. I'll have to check this out...

D

 

[maverickRKJ]

Maybe this has already be presented, but just in case, here it is:

My Mavic 2Z has a body roughly 0.25 ft wide. This is the most visible part when flying away or toward the pilot. Now the accepted angular resolution of the human eye is about 1/60 degree or 0.000291 radian.
Calculations:
Distance X Angle (in radians) = Arc length
Distance X 0.000921 = 0.25 ft whence distance = 859 ft or 0.16 mile.

Now even if we up the angular resolution of your eye by a factor of 4, we get about .064 mile straight line.

Note: if the drone is at h=300 ft, the horizontal distance is 804 ft.

I challenge anyone to let someone fly your drone out somewhere randomly to a distance of, say 0.64 mile, while you keep your back turned and then you turn around and see the drone.

Who flies their Mavic 2 drone no farther than 1000 feet? As for myself, I have trouble seeing it four or five hundred feet away.

agreed , if i take my eyes off mine after 300 feet i have a heck of a time finding it

 

[tedcwhite]

I find with front and rear strobe lights I can go between 1500-3000 feet and still maintain a safe visibility. After that its really taking a big chance.

 

[dronerdave]

I find with front and rear strobe lights I can go between 1500-3000 feet and still maintain a safe visibility. After that its really taking a big chance.

Pretty much what I've found

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

its about being able to see other manned aircraft

and at closer range hear those low flying winged and rotor manned aircraft.

 

[deleted member 877]

and at closer range hear those low flying winged and rotor manned aircraft.

Agree but unfortunately there are too many ( Mod Removed Name Calling ) who can't resist boasting about how far they can fly their drones BVLOS or that they always fly BVLOS because it's their god given right to do so regardless of the fact that they are breaking the law.

So whatever, they can do what they want but wouldn't it be great if they could simply keep it to themselves instead of polluting this and other public platforms?

 

[ICHOTT]

Maybe this has already be presented, but just in case, here it is:

My Mavic 2Z has a body roughly 0.25 ft wide. This is the most visible part when flying away or toward the pilot. Now the accepted angular resolution of the human eye is about 1/60 degree or 0.000291 radian.
Calculations:
Distance X Angle (in radians) = Arc length
Distance X 0.000921 = 0.25 ft whence distance = 859 ft or 0.16 mile.

Now even if we up the angular resolution of your eye by a factor of 4, we get about .064 mile straight line.

Note: if the drone is at h=300 ft, the horizontal distance is 804 ft.

I challenge anyone to let someone fly your drone out somewhere randomly to a distance of, say 0.64 mile, while you keep your back turned and then you turn around and see the drone.

Who flies their Mavic 2 drone no farther than 1000 feet? As for myself, I have trouble seeing it four or five hundred feet away.

Sorry but your point is what?

 

[thomashall1993]

Maybe this has already be presented, but just in case, here it is:

My Mavic 2Z has a body roughly 0.25 ft wide. This is the most visible part when flying away or toward the pilot. Now the accepted angular resolution of the human eye is about 1/60 degree or 0.000291 radian.
Calculations:
Distance X Angle (in radians) = Arc length
Distance X 0.000921 = 0.25 ft whence distance = 859 ft or 0.16 mile.

Now even if we up the angular resolution of your eye by a factor of 4, we get about .064 mile straight line.

Note: if the drone is at h=300 ft, the horizontal distance is 804 ft.

I challenge anyone to let someone fly your drone out somewhere randomly to a distance of, say 0.64 mile, while you keep your back turned and then you turn around and see the drone.

Who flies their Mavic 2 drone no farther than 1000 feet? As for myself, I have trouble seeing it four or five hundred feet away.

Simple. Buy a bigger drone, lol.

 

[wco81]

Yeah I don’t think LOS is too useful. Essentially it would be keeping it hovering or circling above you.

I try to comply and respect local laws. I am not planning to fly when I go to Thailand in an upcoming trip because they make it very difficult to get a permit.

I am trying to get permission to fly in Portugal, though the process is really bureaucratic, involving submitting GPS coordinates of where I plan to fly.

And I paid a bunch of money to get DOC permit in New Zealand, only to find I may have needed to check with more agencies I didn’t know about.

Most counties require VLOS, which is difficult to maintain after a couple of hundred feet in altitude and distance.

So it would be a very small footprint around you if you observed strict VLOS.

The thing though is, I’m not sure a drone 200 feet away can more reliably be recalled or brought back to land than a drone 2000 feet away.

Sure less chance for losing RF or say returning against heavy wind.

Now I have flown at most 3000-3200 feet away and have seen warnings about weak or lost connections. But once it it more than 400 feet away you can’t fly it by sight. You have to rely on the map view in the app. or use RTH.

 

[MacCool]

I don't really pay any attention to LOS. I fly Litchi missions, or fly FPV, and keep it as safe as I can for the conditions and location I'm flying in. Not gonna try to second guess how some random FAA enforcement agent is gong to interpret my flight. I would be utterly astonished if even is such a thing around here.

 

[offtheback]

That is the same standard that Part 107 pilots are held to (Max height
I’d suggest you mount a set of strobes on each motor arm, you would be surprised how much further out you’ll be able to see it. We use the in the utility world and they do make a difference.
The LOS is there to protect manned aircraft, if UAS pilots are having issues with LOS then you can see the issue a pilot in a fixed wing or helicopter would have locating one. I’m sure the isn’t anyone here that would want to be involved in a near miss or cause an accident.

I have 3 of the Firehouse Tech Quad strobes and they're helpful.Would be great is something twice the brightness or more could be accomodated weight+size wise on the M2P and others.I try to synch the timing on the 2 rear strobes but hit or miss.

 

[Windkous]

In South Africa we don't have such problems as this... as long as we dont fly near airports and Harbours and Prisons we ok... We can fly as much as we want and there's been no cases and headaches... We Fly Free and as far as the DJi Goggles can see... Just saying. Fly Safe and Enjoy!

And with such an attitude and not applying the basic regulations of the SACAA you will soon ruin it for all other pilots in South Africa........from a conscientious and responsible drone pilot also in South Africa.

 

[BigAl07]

Agree I don’t see the sense behind this rule. Using the camera is the best way of seeing where you are. If an aircraft were approaching, you would see and hear it long before it reached your position so plenty of time to drop to 50 feet or so. I flew submersibles for twenty years and the only way to do that is from what the rov sees. You get used to putting yourself on the rov. You become aware of everything around you.

The camera has a very limited Field Of View... what if an approaching aircraft is coming at your UAS from some direction other than straight on? To think that you have better situational awareness with a single camera fixed forward is just kidding yourself and trying to convince everyone else to follow your flawed beliefs.

Hmmm
As an amateur aviation enthusiast I have always interpereted VLOS to mean a line on which an object could be seen if it were large enough. Similar to VFR for flying full scale planes. In other words don't put a mountain or other Large object between you and the drone thus defeating your line of sight. To some degree we must trust the control systems built into our drones. No one wants to lose a drone but if you only fly them where u can see them then you will be missing a lot of what they are designed to do. Just my two cents. ?

Well you interpreted it partially wrong. It's not about an imaginary line connecting your eyes to the aircraft You could in theory fly to the moon in that scenario)... It's being able to See YOUR Aircraft and being able to know it's attitude, altitude, direction of travel so that you can See & Avoid any type of potential conflict. If you can't do the above you are unable to AVOID manned aircraft and you become a DANGER to other aircraft.

See & Avoid is our most fundamental requirement to help minimize risk in the NAS.

 

[Toroidal]

Firehouse Arc II beacon. Use it broad daylight to increase VLOS compliance

 

[VegasFlyer]

The camera has a very limited Field Of View... what if an approaching aircraft is coming at your UAS from some direction other than straight on? To think that you have better situational awareness with a single camera fixed forward is just kidding yourself and trying to convince everyone else to follow your flawed beliefs.

There are plenty of what-if scenarios that can be brought up, but if you're at or below 400 feet, or within a max of 400 feet above another object such as a building or mountain, there's no way you should encounter any aircraft other than a drone. Of course there are exceptions to this such as a medical helicopter landing at a hospital helipad. But as far as I know, even the police don't fly below 400 feet. My point here is that we need to remember that other aircraft have limits, too, below which they are not allowed to operate. That is typically 400 feet.

Last week, I flew my P4 and my Mavic 2 Pro on the same Litchi mission at an altitude of 160'. I was able to see the P4 up to about 2200' feet away before I lost sight of it due to a change in the background. I lost track of my M2P at about half that distance for the same reason. I had someone watching the P4 with me and he, too, lost track of it. Yes, we have rules. But the reality of it all is that rules are often made by committees that have no experience with what they're trying to regulate. In my humble opinion, a BVLOS waiver should be included with Part 107 certification. I'd jump on taking the test if such a waiver were included with certification. I know you can apply for a waiver, but apparently the process is long (it is the government we're talking about) and few are granted.

And I tire of people saying that this type of discussion should be banned or deleted. Nothing positive comes from censorship. If you don't like this topic, go read something else. Nowhere does it say we have to like the rules under which we operate. And it is through discussion that rule changes are made.

How to Apply for a Part 107 Waiver - Skyward

Skyward explains how to increase your changes of getting a Part 107 waiver from the FAA, including nighttime drone ops, BVLOS, and over people waivers.

skyward.io