Mavic 2 pro postproduction

[charlas]

Quick guide on using Proxies in Adobe Premiere Pro

 

[Corthan]

The only time you need 4K is when you are shooting for Netflix or for something that is going to go on a BIG screen

While I agree for the most part, shooting in 4K has some huge advantages as well. The best one is being able to crop in for the best composition and still maintain full 1080 resolution. It also allows for tilt/pan/zoom moves in post while keeping 1080 resolution and can make a shot more dynamic. The options/freedom that 4K shooting allows in post is really a huge advantage. I deliver 99% of my work in 1080 but always shoot in 4K. It often makes me look like a better shooter than I am. Cheers.

 

[jagraphics]

While I agree for the most part, shooting in 4K has some huge advantages as well. The best one is being able to crop in for the best composition and still maintain full 1080 resolution. It also allows for tilt/pan/zoom moves in post while keeping 1080 resolution and can make a shot more dynamic. The options/freedom that 4K shooting allows in post is really a huge advantage. I deliver 99% of my work in 1080 but always shoot in 4K. It often makes me look like a better shooter than I am. Cheers.

Good points if you have a computer that can easily handle 4K. The OP is not a professional and has an iMac that is struggling . As you point out you deliver in 1080p anyway so shooting in 1080p would alleviate a lot of his problems.

That said the PC I am specing out now will be designed to handle 8K, not that we have any 8K camera's. Just so we can future proof the work flow and for 4K it will be quick (and process the 1080p before you have imported it.... )

 

[Corthan]

Good points if you have a computer that can easily handle 4K. The OP is not a professional and has an iMac that is struggling . As you point out you deliver in 1080p anyway so shooting in 1080p would alleviate a lot of his problems.

The real problem isn't 4K, it's H265 in combination with a slower computer. I'd be willing to bet that the iMac in question could easily handle H264 or ProRes files at a much higher bit rate. As said above, with proxies or transcoded files, they are much less likely to have a problem (if at all) but does take more time. Despite having the computational resources, my NLE doesn't handle the Mavics H265 codec well at all and in fact, it causes frequent crashes. Other sources of H265 files seem to run fine. Transcoding isn't abhorrently slow though, and then all the problems go away, outside of needing more storage space, at least temporarily. As a hobbyist film maker, that may be acceptable and not require an expensive upgrade. I'm not disagreeing with you, just trying to let the OP know that there are options, whether it's 1080, or 4K H265 with a transcoding or proxie workaround that offers a bunch of downstream advantages. The project and even the shot should dictate the choice, not a computational limitation that can be dealt with fairly easily. Further, the Apple ecosystem has some affordable and really great apps (probably better than any of the Windows options) for transcoding. The OP should do a little experimentation and decide what's best for them and not just blindly follow any single recommendation, mine included. Cheers.

 

[jagraphics]

I must admit I don't use H265 as most of my ground based cameras use H264 and we standardised on that. We don't need the high compression of H265. I can't think anyone would for Drone use where a maximum flight is about 20 minutes. That said the CCTV is set up for H265 as it runs 24/7

 

[charlas]

I must admit I don't use H265 as most of my ground based cameras use H264 and we standardised on that. We don't need the high compression of H265. I can't think anyone would for Drone use where a maximum flight is about 20 minutes. That said the CCTV is set up for H265 as it runs 24/7

Only way to shoot log is in x265, think that the main reason it's become an issue.

 

[NaweG]

One other option I've used if you need to see what difference your workflow would be like on PC but you're on Mac or iPad is Shadow (Shadow - Tech Specs). Performance is similar to a fast i7 (acutally using Xenon) and a 1080 (actually a P5000). If it's available in your area (most of US, some Western Europe) you can go with the $10 trial, install your stuff, and see how it performs before you lay down the money for a PC.

For myself I used it for a while when I first got my iPad Pro to do photo editing, but then moved to a fast PC with Jump Desktop which lets me do the same thing.

 

[Mav.phant.inspire]

Don’t give up on iMacs I use a 2017 5k iMac with few problems running FCPX with d-log m 4K footage... ...but... the computer was $5k

 

[Not A Speck Of Cereal]

I must admit I don't use H265 as most of my ground based cameras use H264 and we standardised on that. We don't need the high compression of H265. I can't think anyone would for Drone use where a maximum flight is about 20 minutes. That said the CCTV is set up for H265 as it runs 24/7

Why would the flight time matter for recording h.265? Working on a project in a NLE can mean using several individual h.265 source files from multiple flights. Who turns the video camera on when they take off and leaves it on for the entire flight anyway? One flight for me can mean several segments, each no longer than a minute or two.

Chris

 

[johnmeyer]

Why would the flight time matter for recording h.265?

I think all jagraphics was getting at is that some people might be drawn to h.265 in order to save storage space because, for a given quality level, it creates smaller file sizes than the older h.264. He then made his point that since drone videos are all less than twenty minutes, space saving isn't very important.

Who turns the video camera on when they take off and leaves it on for the entire flight anyway?

I do, and I would recommend that everyone else do this as well.

Why?

Because many flights come across something you didn't expect (like a bird flying after your drone), if the video isn't running when that thing happens, you've missed it.

Why take that risk?

Since you can easily throw away what you don't need, there is zero downside to capturing everything.

To this point, I have software which lets me do lossless "cuts-only" edits. I take my 20-minute, uninterrupted video and do a quick cut into the segments I want to keep permanently. Scrubbing quickly on the timeline in my NLE, this takes less than a minute of my time, and since the edits are lossless and therefore are nothing more than a file copy operation, the actual editing into segments also only takes a minute or two. I then eventually throw away the twenty minute video.

 

[Not A Speck Of Cereal]

I think all jagraphics was getting at is that some people might be drawn to h.265 in order to save storage space because, for a given quality level, it creates smaller file sizes than the older h.264. He then made his point that since drone videos are all less than twenty minutes, space saving isn't very important. I do, and I would recommend that everyone else do this as well.

Ah, gotcha.

I record DLOG h.265 in my M2P because there is no DLOG option for h.264. The M2P won't even allow you to do HLG in 264 -- just normal.

Plus there's the extra 2 bits.

[... editing in the parts of a 20 minute raw video you end up wanting ...]

I then eventually throw away the twenty minute video.

There's a difference for me as well: I keep all of my raw, unedited source files. It's a long standing policy of mine that has come in handy. I'm not sure I would want to perpetually store a vast amount of source content that I only used a small percentage of, just to cover those situations where I want to re-use source material (which can be used on a different project that's color graded differently).

I understand the concept of happy accidents while filming them, but I prefer to film what I intend (pre-visualized) and happy things happen during those too. I film long on both ends and do a lot of re-shoots if a run isn't as I like it (probably many/most of us do that), so believe that I'm making the best use of my storage space

Plus, since I keep my sources, the h.265 compression is nice.

Chris

 

[charlas]

I tend to shoot everything, just as seperate files. When I've got a shot I want I stop and restart the recording, same thing as recording it all, just easier to manage later when it all gets uploaded to Google drive for backup I suppose. But workflows are one of those things that's usually very person centric

 

[johnmeyer]

One quick addition to my previous post.

The reason I always let the camera roll is the result of something I learned from 20+ years of "run 'n gun" video filming live events like sports, weddings, live stage productions; etc.

"Stuff happens" all the time that you are not expecting and could never plan for. Because it is live, you can't re-shoot.

As a result, my byword is "coverage," which for those who don't know that term, means having plenty of video, preferably from multiple cameras filming at the same time.

Here's what I learned:

It is better to wish you didn't have to spend a few minutes throwing away a few hours of "extra" footage from multiple cameras than to wish you hadn't missed the shot of a lifetime.

P.S. I'll never forget, during a basketball game, turning off the camera just before halftime because I thought the team with the ball was going to dribble it out. Instead, the star player decided to launch one from half-court, like Steph Curry, and she nailed it.

I missed it, and everyone on the team never let me forget my mistake.

 

[Not A Speck Of Cereal]

That's a fine personal philosophy, indeed.

Chris

 

[jagraphics]

I have found that many people go for "The Best" settings for all things audio and video eg DLog and H256 because they are "The Best" and not because they need them.

Professionals might use DLog and H256 but would not be trying to struggle with an old iMac. They would have a suitable PC/MAc and a good (paid for ) NLE. Then again their footage/audio will go on a cinema screen (remember cinemas with a 50 foot screen?) or large event LCD screens of similar size etc or studio quality audio.

However for most people who are not professional videographers, sound engineers etc whose work is going to go on to Youtube or Vimeo and be viewed at 1080p on uncalibrated 4-7 inch phones and uncalibrated 24inch computer monitors or maybe even uncalibrated 50 inch domestic TV's (Domestic 4K TV's do very good 1080p->4 upscaling) with very low-fi speakers... do you really need it?

You can use 1080p 24/5-30FPS with H264 and 99.999999% of the world won't notice or care.

Rather than buying a more powerful computer get larger SDHC cards that can hold the less compressed H246 for $30 and do you REALLY need D-Log?

If you REALLY need D-Log and 4K go and buy an appropriate PC or NEW Mac Pro and NLE of choice. As a professional you will earn the money back for it easily. Besides you can set it against tax.

A lot of these conversations end up with people arguing to 10 decimal places when 99.999% of humanity can't resolve past 5 decimal places.

Cut your coat according to your cloth, work with it and enjoy it.
Don't fret about what you don't have.



NOTE I am selling 2 reasonably house trained children and my soul for cash as I NEED a new Mac Pro and 2 * 27inch monitors.....

 

[Not A Speck Of Cereal]

Agreed. But since I'm without children, I'll play the devil's advocate ...

A lot of us are enthusiasts that can tell the difference and want the best for ourselves, regardless of the level of appreciation of the minute details sailing over the heads of most of our viewers.

Another reason to capture the best is to future proof. You may not have the powerful enough computer now, but you might later. If I have to down-sample my footage today until I can afford to build a new machine, at least I know that I'm building a large catalog of the best source for later use / re-use. I'm not commercial yet, but I might be later, or I might just use today's footage in a future production with better hardware for myself. So I'm learning about proxies in the meantime.

I've also always believed that using the better source is beneficial for that production space, higher numbers for your computer to do math with when it's doing FX / heavy rendering. Those previously mentioned 2 bits (8 vs 10)

Analogy (non-commercial): a lot of us that do audio engineering probably record at something like 24-bit 96k, even though any deliverable is likely to be CD quality (16-bit 44.1k) or lower (MP3).

Analogy (commercial): major motion picture film-makers might shoot at 4K or high resolution film, but the digital intermediate is often still only 2K (even when a deliverable is a 4K UHD disc, but is still more typically a normal HD 1080 blu-ray). Someone could still remaster to a 4K DI in the future though.

In my still (DSLR) photography, I use good gear and use high-end post processing techniques, even though I'm now frequently told that today's smart phones are "just as good" (both capture and in-phone processing). Even though I don't sell my photography (yet), I know the difference. But my most frequent deliverable today is a Facebook quality JPG.

Chris

 

[patriotdrone]

I gave up on h.265 and reverted back to h.264 .....my clients cant tell a difference and it wasnt worth the extra time.

 

[CaptHook]

Here's some stuff I did last weekend at a festival I goto every year.

Hi charlas - thanks for posting the vids - good stuff!

The first video, I'm amazed.
It is one of the 'cleanest' M2 videos I've seen.
No intra-frame noise - aka 'flicker'.
And that's even with high-speed pans etc.

The 2nd video has some of the same shots.
But has heavy 'flicker'.

How did you process the 1st video in post to clean it up?
What did you shoot in?

I notice the first video is available on youtube in 60fps.
Did you drop a 30 fps into a 60fps timeline?

Did you do noise reduction? Neat video?

My quest currently is to produce 'flicker-free' video.
I will be posting some on this later - next week?

Anything you can share on how you got video 1 to look so clean and smooth would be extremely helpful!

Thanks!!

 

[Bryce steiner]

Hi everyone
New owner of a Mtp... it's a remarkable machine. I'm a profane and I fly every time my wife is at work (like having an affair!). I'm doing footage at the maximum quality (Dlog, 4K ecc) but it's very hard to process the clips even with an year old iMac.. It's very annoying, I guess I should give up the D-log and use the normal profile instead..

Have you any advise?

Cheers
Andrea

Hi Andrea,

Did you say what your 2018 iMac specs are? I didn't see it in the thread.
There is absolutely no reason your 1 or 2 year old Mac cannot process 4k, unless it's just low spec'd in which case any computer that is underpowered will not be able to handle the data of 10bit video.
How much memory? What processor? SSD or HDD? How large is your storage disk? What software are you using?

If you are trying to use iMovie with 10bit h265 you may as well stop. iMovie is great but 264 8bit is what you have to use with it if you are filming 4k.

 

[charlas]

Hi charlas - thanks for posting the vids - good stuff!

The first video, I'm amazed.
It is one of the 'cleanest' M2 videos I've seen.
No intra-frame noise - aka 'flicker'.
And that's even with high-speed pans etc.

The 2nd video has some of the same shots.
But has heavy 'flicker'.

How did you process the 1st video in post to clean it up?
What did you shoot in?

I notice the first video is available on youtube in 60fps.
Did you drop a 30 fps into a 60fps timeline?

Did you do noise reduction? Neat video?

My quest currently is to produce 'flicker-free' video.
I will be posting some on this later - next week?

Anything you can share on how you got video 1 to look so clean and smooth would be extremely helpful!

Thanks!!

No probs, the first video is at 59.97/60fps as was shot etc, nothing special besides standard lens correction and grading, the other one is a 25fps video as it mixes video from other camera's that were not native 60 etc. I could have used time remapping to smooth out the 60fps footage into the 25fps timeline (or possibly a better idea to interpolate the 25fps footage upto 60, but people sometimes look 'strange' at 60fps, especially when interpolated), however as you probably know 'cutting' frames out to match a slower timeline makes for less smooth footage no matter what you do, it's almost always easier to use slower shot footage and interpolate it upto a faster timeline, than go the other way, especially when it's not a direct divisor (60/25=2.4)