Mavic 3 Range test - 30,000 ft - REPORTED TO FAA

[zeusfl]

I agree the 1.2 miles is generous but at the same time if somebody own a large drone like hexacopters will apply the same rule and probably they have to have a baseline that I agree is super generous for a Mavic 3.

 

[zeusfl]

Then ask him ,unless mistaken he joined today as @FAA Employee

That is probably him. He work in Orlando FAA. I glad he accept the offer to join us.

 

[Phantomrain.org]

This does not surprise me as I have made quite a few phone calls to the FAA agents and the information did not always match what Big Al was saying on the forum and realized right away that the Forum Moderator was right.

Let us not forget that many of us were flying under the 2017 rules of being allowed to have a spotter for long distance flights only to find out last year that this was no longer sanctioned .

Now being told that 1.2 miles is the viable limit which is 6300 ft , is good to know as 3000 ft has become my go to because after that I am prey to the birds I cannot see.

Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly in the Rain, Land on the Water.

 

[Jagerbomb52]

Interesting post.

 

[zeusfl]

Thanks for sharing @zeusfl
Maybe update your Video description with some of your reflections. So other young pilots don’t try to break your record.

The video description has been updated. Thank you for your suggestion !!

 

[sar104]

That is exactly what I was explain to him but he says I need to maintain AGL (About Ground Level).. Well I don't argued more. Probably I miss understood him is what I want to think.

Well if he said 400 AGL then he was correct, provided that there was no discussion of structures under Part 107 involved. That's not the same as 400 ft above the takeoff point.

 

[sar104]

The 1.2 miles converted is 1930 meters and imo is “very” generous as that would likely have to apply to the general public and not someone who has extraordinary eyesight and to do it repeatedly in the majority of weather and lighting conditions.

Glancing away or losing it in sun glare etc and then reacquiring a drone the size of an M3 anywhere beyond a few hundred meters is challenging for me. Multiple times that doesn’t sound reasonable at all to me.

It may be regarded as a credible maximum to determine orientation with multicolored strobes in ideal conditions - so probably at night.

 

[Etdronehome]

It may be regarded as a credible maximum to determine orientation with multicolored strobes in ideal conditions - so probably at night.

Beyond my pay grade to even speculate

Your explanation seems logical though.

 

[Etdronehome]

I agree the 1.2 miles is generous but at the same time if somebody own a large drone like hexacopters will apply the same rule and probably they have to have a baseline that I agree is super generous for a Mavic 3.

I’m not understanding this.

If the baseline is - no one can see beyond 1.2 miles then logically it would apply to all drones. A larger one would be easier to see than a small one so wouldn’t the limit be for the smallest and therefore most challenging to see?

 

[Phantomrain.org]

I’m not understanding this.

If the baseline is - no one can see beyond 1.2 miles then logically it would apply to all drones. A larger one would be easier to see than a small one so wouldn’t the limit be for the smallest and therefore most challenging to see?

I think some are getting confused with what is legal and what is investigated by the FAA as far as doing there job goes.

Example some police will warn you for going 75 but if your over 80 there writing you a ticket , both are still speeding .

FAA agents are not robots , they have a decision making process and for them to want to prosecute I think anything past 1.2 miles gives them that authority to move forward if needed if they can see who is flying the drone in the video as that would make the most sense to me.

Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly in the Rain. Land on the Water.

 

[zeusfl]

I’m not understanding this.

If the baseline is - no one can see beyond 1.2 miles then logically it would apply to all drones. A larger one would be easier to see than a small one so wouldn’t the limit be for the smallest and therefore most challenging to see?

Correct, but creating rules base in the drone size can be more complicated so maybe they have that as a baseline for them because that I know there is nothing in writing about what is VBLOS. Your eyes are not the same as mines. They maybe are taking as baseline what a pair of good eyes can see at nights with strobe lights as @sar104 suggest. Is just speculations in my side.

Is like a police is going to stop somebody for speeding in a 55 MPH zone. I am sure if you are going at 56-58 Mph are not going to stop you but they most to have a baseline in their standards as employees where you really crossed the line for their eyes.

 

[zeusfl]

LOL @Phantomrain.org we just used the same example at the same time posting !!

 

[Etdronehome]

I think some are getting confused with what is legal and what is investigated by the FAA as far as doing there job goes.

Example some police will warn you for going 75 but if your over 80 there writing you a ticket , both are still speeding .

FAA agents are not robots , they have a decision making process and for them to want to prosecute I think anything past 1.2 miles gives them that authority to move forward if needed if they can see who is flying the drone in the video as that would make the most sense to me.

Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly in the Rain. Land on the Water.

I don’t know about any confusion about how the FAA or police might decide to go with enforcement or not ???

My comment was in regard to @zeusfl comment about a larger drone than an M3 driving the limit of a baseline.
Seems to me the baseline should be driven by the “most” difficult to see. For example I could easily see a large military transport plane at 1.2 miles, a little drone not so much.

In any event only the FAA knows the facts so I think I’m done speculating on this one.

 

[sar104]

I don’t know about any confusion about how the FAA or police might decide to go with enforcement or not ???

My comment was in regard to @zeusfl comment about a larger drone than an M3 driving the limit of a baseline.
Seems to me the baseline should be driven by the “most” difficult to see. For example I could easily see a large military transport plane at 1.2 miles, a little drone not so much.

That depends - if they are going to set an upper limit then it is likely to be based on the best-case visibility (not worst-case visibility), which may well be represented by a large UAV with good lighting, at night.

And since this is in regard to Part 107 flights, that would cap the aircraft size at 55 lbs. Large military aircraft are not included.

I can say that the 55 lb octoquads that I fly are certainly much easier to see, even in daylight, than any of my DJI aircraft. It's enormous, relatively speaking, and has very bright strobes.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

but he says I need to maintain AGL (About Ground Level)

Pretty certain he meant AGL where the drone is, that is the rule we all know applies in the US, and most countries of the World.

 

[Chaosrider]

I just been reported to the FAA for my 30,000FT Range Test video. They leave me a comment in my YouTube channel asking for my email saying they need to talk to me. I google the agent name and found his email and phone number and I give then my information. They email me and then call me.

Richard from the FAA Orlando, contacted me to give me orientation about the rules of VLOS and altitude base in the rules below.

I had to provide my drone registration and trust certificate.

He was very professional, friendly and let me know the FAA intentions is give orientation to people flying drones and encourage continue with the hobby in a safety way. The first thing he mention was do not feel stress we are here to help and give orientation.

Something he mention was they take as baseline that nobody can see a drone after 1.2 miles of distance. Also something new for me is that if you take off for example and fly to a higher ground level for example 50FT hill you still need to maintain the 400FT from the take off location...That is what he says. My understanding was that you need to maintain the altitude from the actual drone location ground level.

He was very helpful and ask me to keep his number in case we have any question to give us orientation. He says he read this post in here and they monitor our forum basically that is a good thing.

I am keeping my video in my channel as orientation but as i mention before I am not intending to repeat the test again since I know is violating the FAA rules.



Reference: Code of Federal Regulation 107 https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-F/part-107

§ 107.31 Visual line of sight aircraft operation.​

(a) With vision that is unaided by any device other than corrective lenses, the remote pilot in command, the visual observer (if one is used), and the person manipulating the flight control of the small unmanned aircraft system must be able to see the unmanned aircraft throughout the entire flight in order to:

(1) Know the unmanned aircraft's location;

(2) Determine the unmanned aircraft's attitude, altitude, and direction of flight;

(3) Observe the airspace for other air traffic or hazards; and

(4) Determine that the unmanned aircraft does not endanger the life or property of another.

(b) Throughout the entire flight of the small unmanned aircraft, the ability described in paragraph (a) of this section must be exercised by either:

(1) The remote pilot in command and the person manipulating the flight controls of the small unmanned aircraft system; or

(2) A visual observer.

§ 107.33 Visual observer.​

If a visual observer is used during the aircraft operation, all of the following requirements must be met:

(a) The remote pilot in command, the person manipulating the flight controls of the small unmanned aircraft system, and the visual observer must maintain effective communication with each other at all times.

(b) The remote pilot in command must ensure that the visual observer is able to see the unmanned aircraft in the manner specified in § 107.31.

(c) The remote pilot in command, the person manipulating the flight controls of the small unmanned aircraft system, and the visual observer must coordinate to do the following:

(1) Scan the airspace where the small unmanned aircraft is operating for any potential collision hazard; and

(2) Maintain awareness of the position of the small unmanned aircraft through direct visual observation.

§ 107.51 Operating limitations for small unmanned aircraft.​

A remote pilot in command and the person manipulating the flight controls of the small unmanned aircraft system must comply with all of the following operating limitations when operating a small unmanned aircraft system:

(a) The groundspeed of the small unmanned aircraft may not exceed 87 knots (100 miles per hour).

(b) The altitude of the small unmanned aircraft cannot be higher than 400 feet above ground level, unless the small unmanned aircraft:

(1) Is flown within a 400-foot radius of a structure; and

(2) Does not fly higher than 400 feet above the structure's immediate uppermost limit.

(c) The minimum flight visibility, as observed from the location of the control station must be no less than 3 statute miles. For purposes of this section, flight visibility means the average slant distance from the control station at which prominent unlighted objects may be seen and identified by day and prominent lighted objects may be seen and identified by night.

(d) The minimum distance of the small unmanned aircraft from clouds must be no less than:

(1) 500 feet below the cloud; and

(2) 2,000 feet horizontally from the cloud.

This is extraordinarily encouraging, but not entirely surprising. Every time I've dealt with the FAA over the last 40 years they have been entirely professional, courteous, and helpful. Some people think the FAA is out to get pilots. Those people are wrong.

The 1.2 mile "not to exceed" VLOS standard is generous and reasonable. And, it has the overwhelming advantage of being quantitative, and externally measurable. Rather than arguing about what some specific person could actually see in some specific situation, this unofficial rule says that if you go beyond 1.2 miles, we just don't believe you. Fair enough! It let's them focus their enforcement efforts around truly egregious offenders, rather than wallowing around in fuzzy-wuzzy land. As a practical matter, it's a significant relaxation of the "bright digital line" VLOS requirement, which I've been arguing should happen in this forum for a while.

IIRC, the 400 ft max altitude above launch point is correct for recreational pilots, but 107 pilots get to fly in the 400 ft tall "blanket" around terrain and structures. But I need to take another look at that.

Thanks for posting this!



TCS

 

[Jagerbomb52]

I always wonder how this guy gets away with his range tests. Every single new drone that comes out he does a long range test. The FAA must be more relaxed on the Islands.

 

[zeusfl]

He lives in Hawaii is my understanding the FAA Part 107 still apply there base in google search. Probably nobody report him since he is in the remote isle. We need to remember something. Youtube can be full of fantasy. He can be out of the US when record the videos and say is in the US just for videos getting views. Videos can be edited..... You can act in the video like you are flying and somebody else doing it.

Not in his defense but we do not know what is real and what is not.

 

[GFields]

Thank you for sharing your experience

 

[Meta4]

IIRC, the 400 ft max altitude above launch point is correct for recreational pilots

There is no rule anywhere about your height relative to the launch point.
All height rules are based on the drone's height above the ground below it.