Mavic at 3 Miles! . . . VLOS

[Cookedinlh]

Lots of talk about how far you can go VLOS. Currently the Canadian rules say VLOS but "no more than 500m from the operator", My SFOC simply says VLOS, so I've been developing procedures for FVLOS. Forward Visual Line O Sight, is when a Forward Observer (FOBS) will pick up VLOS while he is located up to 1/2 mile away from the launch site and maintain object/aircraft avoidance over that part of the mission. With the M2E searchlight however that distance is now more like 3 miles plus. Here's what Mavic looks like at 5280ft. If my FOBS was a mile further out he could easily pick up the search light and guide it another mile beyond putting the practical (and legal range) out beyond 3 miles.

So Mavic at one mile works. I have not found an appropriate place (with good lines of sight) to go further but this test at a mile shows it's only limited by the Mavic C2 ( command and control link) and video stability. Importantly, the new Canadian Aviation Rules (CARs PART IX) does not set a max distance only "VLOS"

900.01 Definitions visual line-of-sight or VLOS means unaided visual contact at all times with a remotely piloted aircraft that is sufficient to be able to maintain control of the aircraft, know its location, and be able to scan the airspace in which it is operating in order to perform the detect and avoid functions in respect of other aircraft or objects. (visibilité directe ou VLOS). Having spoken to Transport Canada folks about this specific issue, it appears that this is known and intentional.

That Flare Stack is (Red Circle) is 4500ft beyond the Mavic (see map below photos). A FOBS standing at the stack would have no difficulty seeing Mavic VLOS, anywhere in the Yellow Circle and provide collision avoidance and traffic advisory. This makes M2E Searchlight an even more valuable addition to the Mavic Mission.

 

[msinger]

On your site, I saw you tested a bunch of different lights. Which did you conclude was the best?

 

[Cookedinlh]

On your site, I saw you tested a bunch of different lights. Which did you conclude was the best?

Cree STROBON work fine . . at least the WHITE ones are pretty good. The M2E Strobe is also good but on top it's hard to see often if it's flying away from you . . SPOTLIGHT is far and away the best. I've seen some new Dual Strap on LEDs advertise . . can't remember the name but they are about a bright as the Spotlights on M2E . . . M2E is 27W LED . . super bright . .
The other name is Lumecube . . here's the website but I know nothing about these

 

[Jackcutrone]

I don't know Canadian regs. In the US, the observer must be physically co-located with the pilot so that they are able to communicate. I forgot how it is worded but essentially, an observer such as you are referring to would not be acceptable because of the physical separation. Are Canada's regs different?

 

[Cookedinlh]

I don't know Canadian regs. In the US, the observer must be physically co-located with the pilot so that they are able to communicate. I forgot how it is worded but essentially, an observer such as you are referring to would not be acceptable because of the physical separation. Are Canada's regs different?

Yes I guess they are: . . it says "reliable and timely communication [must be] maintained". We use a hand held radio (not VHF) with hands free VOX ( voice activated) mikes . . here's the Regs PART IX as of 1 Jun 2019
The current rules for Recreational UAV pilots as expressed here is 500m. Otherwise an SFOC is required till June.
PART IX is a difficult read 28-30 pgs that refer to many other regs . . . so I wrote a PLAIN ENGLISH SUMMARY
I know "too much information" . . but you did ask . . .

Visual Observers

901.20 (1) No pilot shall operate a remotely piloted aircraft system if visual observers are used to assist the pilot in the provision of detect and avoid functions unless reliable and timely communication is maintained between the pilot and each visual observer during the operation.

 

[Jackcutrone]

If the pilot and observer have established enough conventions for the observer to relay necessary avoidance information to the pilot, e.g. "low flying aircraft approaching from the northeast, descend to 50 feet" that perhaps makes more sense than our regs, at least in terms of giving the pilot additional distance flexibility.

 

[Cookedinlh]

If the pilot and observer have established enough conventions for the observer to relay necessary avoidance information to the pilot, e.g. "low flying aircraft approaching from the northeast, descend to 50 feet" that perhaps makes more sense than our regs, at least in terms of giving the pilot additional distance flexibility.

Yes something like that. We have a whole section or our SOPs on FVLOS FOBS Ops

 

[JakeRobinson]

Cree STROBON work fine . . at least the WHITE ones are pretty good. The M2E Strobe is also good but on top it's hard to see often if it's flying away from you . . SPOTLIGHT is far and away the best. I've seen some new Dual Strap on LEDs advertise . . can't remember the name but they are about a bright as the Spotlights on M2E . . . M2E is 27W LED . . super bright . .
The other name is Lumecube . . here's the website but I know nothing about these

could it be if you use the M2B strobe it would be good in order to determine orientation? if it is moving away you can't see it, but if you turn the AC and maintain forward motion you could then determine it is headed back home, right?

 

[gnirtS]

Certainly wont meet legal VLOS requirements in most countries
Its a blob of light, that has no depth perception at all. You can't see if something is behind it or in front of it - you have no 3D picture of the airspace around it. You also cannot see its orientation and have no chance seeing something small coming towards it from further away.

 

[Cookedinlh]

could it be if you use the M2B strobe it would be good in order to determine orientation? if it is moving away you can't see it, but if you turn the AC and maintain forward motion you could then determine it is headed back home, right?

No I have to say the Searchlight is the answer to long range VLOS . . your display gives distance and orientation anytime just point it HOME anytime and flick the light on . . . BANG there is it. The M2E strobe is a poor second at half the distance. Just look down at the display for a moment and you can easily keep a good scan for local aircraft conflict. The only reason for going with a FOBS ( Forward Observer) is to extend it beyond a mile maybe. . . rather few needs to do that but it can helpful for widea area searches.

 

[Cookedinlh]

Certainly wont meet legal VLOS requirements in most countries
Its a blob of light, that has no depth perception at all. You can't see if something is behind it or in front of it - you have no 3D picture of the airspace around it. You also cannot see its orientation and have no chance seeing something small coming towards it from further away.

I'm glad Transport Canada sees it that way because if depth perception was that important or difficult we'd be relegated to a few hundred feet. I'd challenge anyone to fly out 150ft to fly around a tree without going above it just with depth perception. I certainly can't . . . it's not depth perception that matters it's can you scan the skies around the UAV sufficient to determine if you might interfere with other aircraft . . . that's the safety issue regulators care about . . not whether you can tell which way you are pointed. That you can figure out with a single control movement, even without looking at the display. This is at a mile (with bit of magnification). . Am I in front of behind or IN the flame. . . but still easy to tell there are no other aircraft in the area. In fact I'm a mile this side of the flame. . . I'm actually able to easily search a wooded area for 15 min (There's no road access from the industrial site) . . .Searchlight does the trick.

 

[JakeRobinson]

No I have to say the Searchlight is the answer to long range VLOS . . your display gives distance and orientation anytime just point it HOME anytime and flick the light on . . . BANG there is it. The M2E strobe is a poor second at half the distance. Just look down at the display for a moment and you can easily keep a good scan for local aircraft conflict. The only reason for going with a FOBS ( Forward Observer) is to extend it beyond a mile maybe. . . rather few needs to do that but it can helpful for widea area searches.

Thanks - very good explanation - appreciate your insight.
Cheers

 

[dawgpilot]

I don't know Canadian regs. In the US, the observer must be physically co-located with the pilot so that they are able to communicate. I forgot how it is worded but essentially, an observer such as you are referring to would not be acceptable because of the physical separation. Are Canada's regs different?

This isn't true under Part 107. The VO just needs a way to stay in communication with the RPIC. It could easily be via 2-way radio, cell phone call, etc. There is no requirement that they be physically next to each other.

 

[kadras]

I don't know Canadian regs. In the US, the observer must be physically co-located with the pilot so that they are able to communicate. I forgot how it is worded but essentially, an observer such as you are referring to would not be acceptable because of the physical separation. Are Canada's regs different?

As dawgpilot says, there is no requirement for the pilot and observer to be co-located, specifically
§ 107.33 Visual observer.
If a visual observer is used during the aircraft operation, all of the following requirements must be met:
(a) The remote pilot in command, the person manipulating the flight controls of the small unmanned aircraft system, and the visual observer must maintain effective communication with each other at all times.
(b) The remote pilot in command must ensure that the visual observer is able to see the unmanned aircraft in the manner specified in § 107.31.

 

[FlyGuy8675309]

I did a quick test of how well the searchlight performs in broad daylight as a location / anti-collision device.

Here's just some quick notes from the flight

- Super sunny Florida day.
- Spotlight adjusted to point straight ahead
- Take off, set Enterprise Spotlight on 100%
- Get to 250' or so and fly backwards (so the camera / spot light are facing me)
- To keep that light visible as you fly backwards you need to adjust the attitude by "goosing" the throttle up every few seconds. This will keep the light oriented down. It will also increase your altitude, but not by much and you can always drop it down 20 feet every so often to keep it under 400'
- Could see light EASILY for well over one mile. Looked like a flare in the sky in broad daylight.
- Fly back home: face forward flight, light bright at all times.

Pretty nifty.

 

[BigAl07]

This isn't true under Part 107. The VO just needs a way to stay in communication with the RPIC. It could easily be via 2-way radio, cell phone call, etc. There is no requirement that they be physically next to each other.

That's wrong. They can NOT extend VLOS to a VO that is NOT positioned next to the RPIC. While there is an allowance for VO to use Radio Comms it is not for RPIC to Primary VO. The Primary VO (the one who "could" assume momentary VLOS from the RPIC) has to be within verbal nontechnology comms of the RPIC.

 

[Cookedinlh]

I did a quick test of how well the searchlight performs in broad daylight as a location / anti-collision device.

Here's just some quick notes from the flight

- Super sunny Florida day.
- Spotlight adjusted to point straight ahead
- Take off, set Enterprise Spotlight on 100%
- Get to 250' or so and fly backwards (so the camera / spot light are facing me)
- To keep that light visible as you fly backwards you need to adjust the attitude by "goosing" the throttle up every few seconds. This will keep the light oriented down. It will also increase your altitude, but not by much and you can always drop it down 20 feet every so often to keep it under 400'
- Could see light EASILY for well over one mile. Looked like a flare in the sky in broad daylight.
- Fly back home: face forward flight, light bright at all times.

Pretty nifty.

Nicely Done FlyGuy . . .

 

[Cookedinlh]

That's wrong. They can NOT extend VLOS to a VO that is NOT positioned next to the RPIC. While there is an allowance for VO to use Radio Comms it is not for RPIC to Primary VO. The Primary VO (the one who "could" assume momentary VLOS from the RPIC) has to be within verbal nontechnology comms of the RPIC.

In Canada perfectly legal come 1 June without any special permissions . . just be in contact . . and one or both needs to be able to see unaided . . meaning no LLTV, FLIR or Binoculars etc . . but aided by just being BRIGHT is fine. I do FVLOS all the time. see Forward VLOS and can be done with lots of other birds with enough light. . . but M2E is the BEST!

 

[BigAl07]

In Canada perfectly legal come 1 June without any special permissions . . just be in contact . . and one or both needs to be able to see unaided . . meaning no LLTV, FLIR or Binoculars etc . . but aided by just being BRIGHT is fine. I do FVLOS all the time. see Forward VLOS and can be done with lots of other birds with enough light. . . but M2E is the BEST!

Yes I agree the M2E is a great airframe.

Thanks but I was correctly another member who stated some incorrect FAA rules and we need to try and get on the same sheet of music as there's way too much wrong information already out there.

 

[dawgpilot]

That's wrong. They can NOT extend VLOS to a VO that is NOT positioned next to the RPIC. While there is an allowance for VO to use Radio Comms it is not for RPIC to Primary VO. The Primary VO (the one who "could" assume momentary VLOS from the RPIC) has to be within verbal nontechnology comms of the RPIC.

The text of the regulation seems to disagree with that: Part 107.31(b) says that VLOS must be maintained by either 1) the RPIC or 2) the VO. There is no regulatory text regarding the positioning of the individuals. (besides 107.12 requiring the RPIC to be positioned to take over from the person operating the flight controls if necessary)