Mavic Pro-2 vs Zoom and P4P - Line Skipping + Sensor Heat?

AeroJ · Sep 29, 2018

Cliff_622 said:
You could be very right on that. I will have an EVO for testing next week! Im VERY curious to see how she looks!

I will very much look forward to any video you may make on such tests

I am literally slavering for that machine from what I have seen so far, it's been upsetting me for a while that it's not available (with warranty support) in the UK. I do hope they sort that out !

Lon Denard · Sep 29, 2018

Cliff_622 said:
You could be very right on that. I will have an EVO for testing next week! Im VERY curious to see how she looks!

I personally believe that you'll be impressed! I think that the Evo is a excellent drone for the most part. I however do not believe that the video and especially the pictures are better than the Mavic 2 Pro. The jury is out in regards to the M2Z but I am pretty sure that the M2P will come out ahead on features for certain.

4k60 brings me right back to the hype train and the sudden idea that 60fps is somehow mandatory when during all my time filming, I've always been told that 24fps was the standard. If since Autel managed to include 4k60 in a Mavic sized drone, it has now become the standard by which all other drones must be measured, then I submit that all drones in this class must offer 10 bit color, omni directional OA, 5 mile range, optical zoom or a 1"sensor, 1080p video transmission, internal storage, etc, etc, etc...

Lon Denard · Sep 29, 2018

Cliff_622 said:
Thats a great post and I have to agree with much about what you say. I believe are partially to blame about the hype that was created over the Mavic-2 Pro. For almost a year WE wanted the M2P to be the P4P killer. And,..when we found out that it was going to have a 1 inch-type sensor, we automatically went ape-$hit happy that DJI finally did this for us! Wahoo...down the P4P! We got the P4P in a Mavic now! Yeah!!!!!

But DJI was NEVER going to burn a P4P V2.0 that JUST hit the market a few months ago!! That was clearly never their goal.

So now, many if us feel stupid and silly for ever thinking DJI was going to do this. And,..we blame DJI for our overly-high expectations being dashed.

DJI is out to make money. They have a business model that involves marketing divisions. Currently, there is a WALL between the Mavic-2 Pro and Phantom 4 Pro V2.0. There is no competition forcing DJI to move that wall...."yet". When that future event happens, than DJI will adjust its marketing model. Until then....well? This is OUR fault for having expectations that were not realistic at this point in time.

I get it now. I see the marketing "bigger picture" that is going on today and Autel could force DJI's hand down the road. But today? Fly your M2P and be happy with HQ and photos. Dont fly FOV if you dont like it. (I hate FOV but can live with HQ)

Why thank you, Cliff. I really appreciate that. I too am very happy with my M2P in HQ mode. I've never flown it any other way. DJI told me from the start that I would get better video quality that way and so I took their word for it. If I need to get more into the frame, I press down on the right joy stick...it seems to work every time I've tried it. Hahaha! I honestly had no idea that there could be barrel distortion or resolution issues with this drone. I was happily flying and taking pictures and videos. I fly almost every day and have already amassed over 50 video clips and hundreds of photos. I have no intention of returning it because some YouTube guy (no offense) said it was bad anymore than I would have purchased it just because some other YouTube guy said it was good. Anyone that spent $1500 just because someone on YouTube said it was great is just as stupid as people that want it but won't buy it or returned it just because someone on YouTube said it was junk. Just my opinion of course.

Cliff_622 · Sep 29, 2018

So,....full disclosure. I reached out to Autel this week to get their opinion on my video and the issues in it. They told me they have definetely been watching it but they could not make any public comments about what DJI is doing. However!....they IMMEDIATELY offered to send me a 30 day demo of their EVO. Within about 2 hours of emailing them, I had a tracking number. So,...I got the impression that they are very confident in their camera and are eager to go into a fight with the Mavics. I must say,...from seeing some other EVO videos, that thing looks VERY impressive. But, I will do a fair look at it. Im pretty excited to do a shootout between them all.

Shewie007 · Sep 29, 2018

kilomikebravo · Sep 29, 2018

Here is hoping that happens sooner rather than later. Most of all I hope you are as happy with it as the majority of us are.

Lon Denard · Sep 29, 2018

kilomikebravo said:
Here is hoping that happens sooner rather than later. Most of all I hope you are as happy with it as the majority of us are.

Huh? Are you talking about Evo owners?

BlueBay · Sep 29, 2018

Best video yet (in my view) to get the best out of the M2P in its current state.

BlueBay · Sep 29, 2018

BlueBay said:
Best video yet (in my view) to get the best out of the M2P in its current state.

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Great constructive comment from The Film Poets.

"I’m no stranger to calling out DJI. I did just that with the original Mavic Pro’s heavy in-camera noise reduction. But I don’t think DJI is scamming anyone, there are a few reasons:

1. It’s not lineskipping, but pixel binning. Line skipping would have insane moire and aliasing. The mp2 has very little. I’d prefer a full readout though.

2. DJI likely has separate departments for Mavic and Phantom. Meaning the Mavic guys would want to make the best Mavic possible, they wouldn’t care about the Phantom. And dji wouldn’t either because they are similar prices. It’s more likely that a foldable drone, which was unheard of just a few years ago, overheats with 10bit and full sensor readout. I could be wrong, but that’s more likely than assuming that dji thinks no-one will notice pixel binning. I have to say that I’m ok with the slightly softer image, my main problem with drones has been the oversharpened- digital look and the crazy noise, not detail. The m2p solves those problems while creating a much smaller issue. So yes I would have loved an exact match to the phantom 4, but my clients and weddings aren’t going to notice."

REPLY

sar104 · Sep 29, 2018

BlueBay said:
Great constructive comment from The Film Poets.

"I’m no stranger to calling out DJI. I did just that with the original Mavic Pro’s heavy in-camera noise reduction. But I don’t think DJI is scamming anyone, there are a few reasons:

1. It’s not lineskipping, but pixel binning. Line skipping would have insane moire and aliasing. The mp2 has very little. I’d prefer a full readout though.

2. DJI likely has separate departments for Mavic and Phantom. Meaning the Mavic guys would want to make the best Mavic possible, they wouldn’t care about the Phantom. And dji wouldn’t either because they are similar prices. It’s more likely that a foldable drone, which was unheard of just a few years ago, overheats with 10bit and full sensor readout. I could be wrong, but that’s more likely than assuming that dji thinks no-one will notice pixel binning. I have to say that I’m ok with the slightly softer image, my main problem with drones has been the oversharpened- digital look and the crazy noise, not detail. The m2p solves those problems while creating a much smaller issue. So yes I would have loved an exact match to the phantom 4, but my clients and weddings aren’t going to notice."

REPLY

I'm still not convinced it's simple pixel-binning because I don't see how that could produce the result shown in chart 4 in post #448. I'm interested to hear any hypotheses though.

kilomikebravo · Sep 29, 2018

Lon Denard said:
Huh? Are you talking about Evo owners?

No it was a reply to the new M2P owner aeroJ at the top of the thread.

Lon Denard · Sep 29, 2018

kilomikebravo said:
No it was a reply to the new M2P owner aeroJ at the top of the thread.

Oh sorry, I didn't get that at first. Thanks.

WithTheBirds · Sep 29, 2018

chunky said:
If we would get 4K „resolution“ instead of only imagesize this would be fair - of course!
You know the difference between resolution and imagesize-/dimension?!

In „true“ 4K (3840x2160) every single pixel can adopt to an individual state not influenced by surrounding pixels.
An ideal 4K camera could represent up to 1920 linepairs or 3840 lines horizontal at the position defined by the pixel output matrix (...where the sampling happens. If the input is not aligned Nyquist theoreme kicks in and you only get half).

Since we mostly have bayer cameras, non perfect lenses and so on this is hardly achievable. Oversampling at least brings us somewhat closer to 4K image detail as to be seen with the P4pro.
This is the reason very most companys state their products with 4K imagesize, 4K modes and so on.
DJI states „resolution“ and the resulting <2.7K is far from 4K.

We already had this before...

No- you had it before with yourself- a trend that seems to be continuing while you remain dismissive of anything anyone else might say that doesn’t align with what you think you know.

Lon Denard · Sep 29, 2018

WithTheBirds said:
No- you had it before with yourself- a trend that seems to be continuing while you remain dismissive of anything anyone else might say that doesn’t align with what you think you know.

To be fair, I have that same problem! Hahaha!

kilomikebravo · Sep 29, 2018

Lon Denard said:
Oh sorry, I didn't get that at first. Thanks.

Nah, my fault, Lon for not quoting him since the posts were so far apart.

BlueBay · Sep 29, 2018

sar104 said:
I'm still not convinced it's simple pixel-binning because I don't see how that could produce the result shown in chart 4 in post #448. I'm interested to hear any hypotheses though.

Sure, point noted. Maybe someday we'll actually be told what the solution is/was when the fix for a full readout is found!

Bussty · Sep 29, 2018

WithTheBirds said:
The official comments from Hasselblad management were that they were heavily engaged in the colour profile development. They outright claimed not to have been involved in the lens development- no surprise given Hasselblad sourced their fantastic glass from Zeiss. Interestingly they also said that the image processing SOC is from a third party- NFD.

So Hasselblad....

* Didn't design the lens
* Didn't design the sensor
* Didn't design the SOC

But they worked on the colour profile?

YET HASSELBLAD is in very big bold letters right across the front of the Camera...

Is that even ethical? Hasselblad is well known for great cameras not great colour profiles yet they had nothing to do with the physical camera itself? This seems very strange.

WithTheBirds · Sep 29, 2018

Bussty said:
So Hasselblad....

* Didn't design the lens
* Didn't design the sensor
* Didn't design the SOC

But they worked on the colour profile?

YET HASSELBLAD is in very big bold letters right across the front of the Camera...

Is that even ethical? Hasselblad is well known for great cameras not great colour profiles yet they had nothing to do with the physical camera itself? This seems very strange.

I don't think Hasselblad ever designed a sensor- they have always used Sony. They made their bodies for Zeiss glass also. Nether of these issues stopped them putting the Hasselblad name on their products.

They are actually very well known for their colour profiles- arguably their greatest claim to the performance of their digital products (along with fantastic build quality).

Bussty · Sep 29, 2018

WithTheBirds said:
I don't think Hasselblad ever designed a sensor- they have always used Sony. They made their bodies for Zeiss glass also. Nether of these issues stopped them putting the Hasselblad name on their products.

They are actually very well known for their colour profiles- arguably their greatest claim to the performance of their digital products (along with fantastic build quality).

So you are saying they put together that little box with hasselblad on but didn't necessarily make all the components or they just worked on the colour profile?