Thanks. Like I said, I'm not saying that it's not a marketing ploy as well. What isn't these days? I'll be honest though and I'm guessing I'm not alone, most people have no idea who Hasselblad is. They would have done better to bring in Canon or Nikon. Geez just put Sony on the front for God's sake! Who hadn't heard of Sony? Hahaha!
Mavic Pro-2 vs Zoom and P4P - Line Skipping + Sensor Heat?
- Thread starter Cliff_622
- Start date
Thanks. Like I said, I'm not saying that it's not a marketing ploy as well. What isn't these days? I'll be honest though and I'm guessing I'm not alone, most people have no idea who Hasselblad is. They would have done better to bring in Canon or Nikon. Geez just put Sony on the front for God's sake! Who hadn't heard of Sony? Hahaha!
AeroJ
Well-Known Member
I don't think that's quite right. Nearest Frame is a relatively quick and nasty method of interpolation, though can be totally adequate if you are working in exact multiples - 50% / 25% etc - but if you are trying to shift by 70% or some other non even divisor then generally I find I get much better results from Optical Flow interpolation in DVR, at the expense of quite a lot of render time...
Hasselblad was a complete disaster before DJI bought them. They were owned and by an investment bankers group. They had laid off employees and were down to a small stadf. They were rebranding 100% Sony made cameras by bolting on wood grips and sticking goofy looking dials to them and trying to charge 5x the Sony selling price. They actually tried to say that their wood grips made these cameras "exotic". Hassy was THE joke of the camera industry. And, when they hit rock bottom, they pratically tried to give all their camera production stock away because nobody wanted them.
Just Google their history. Hassy has never been a true electronics company. They are just a camera "fashion" brand.
Today, it doesnt take ANY camera manufacturing experience to build a camera! My grandmother could do it. She goes to Sony or several other companies to design and manufacture everything. The hardest thing my grandmother needs to do is come up with a logo that she likes. After that, those companies brand it with her logo and BANG....she now has her own "GrandMother-Blad" camera company!
Im serious. "You" can easily have your own camera designed and manufactured completely by third party contracts today. You only need the capital to put down to get it started.
Hasselblad is just a logo that DJI now ownes.
Just Google their history. Hassy has never been a true electronics company. They are just a camera "fashion" brand.
Today, it doesnt take ANY camera manufacturing experience to build a camera! My grandmother could do it. She goes to Sony or several other companies to design and manufacture everything. The hardest thing my grandmother needs to do is come up with a logo that she likes. After that, those companies brand it with her logo and BANG....she now has her own "GrandMother-Blad" camera company!
Im serious. "You" can easily have your own camera designed and manufactured completely by third party contracts today. You only need the capital to put down to get it started.
Hasselblad is just a logo that DJI now ownes.
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All true. We shouldn’t over diminish their formidable history though. Personally I would like to see them re establish their market credibility. The current realty might be the M2P camera is a lot more Sony than just the sensor.
Having had the opportunity to fly it more my sense is the colour profile is pretty special looking at the DNG’s. I am very happy. I will also happily say the FOV 4K doesn’t match HQ mode- you can see the difference without trying too hard. I wouldn’t say it’s unusable though by any means. Looking at the overall package this is ridiculous performance for the asking price.
I've just read the whole thread which is quite interesting, and unfortunately I have to agree with what the majority of you. I was quite surprised to see a "FOV" mode and "HD" mode, first time I saw that in all the camera I used.
I bought the Mavic 2 pro with a 28mm focal in mind. I usually much prefer 24mm, but 28mm was similar to the Mavic Pro 1, which was OK for me. I never ever thought I would have to shoot in something >40mm ( which is somehow what the HD mode actually is ) to fully exploit the potential of the Mavic 2 Pro, OR shoot in 28mm, but with a quality similar to the Mavic Pro 1.
I feel a little bit robbed, and I can't see any other explanation that DJI tried to hide a few things and rushed the product, crossing finger nobody would figure out these issues . It seems so obvious with these 2 modes HD / FOV ...
Really ... WTF are these 2 modes ? anybody saw anything close to that in other cameras ?
I bought the Mavic 2 pro with a 28mm focal in mind. I usually much prefer 24mm, but 28mm was similar to the Mavic Pro 1, which was OK for me. I never ever thought I would have to shoot in something >40mm ( which is somehow what the HD mode actually is ) to fully exploit the potential of the Mavic 2 Pro, OR shoot in 28mm, but with a quality similar to the Mavic Pro 1.
I feel a little bit robbed, and I can't see any other explanation that DJI tried to hide a few things and rushed the product, crossing finger nobody would figure out these issues . It seems so obvious with these 2 modes HD / FOV ...
Really ... WTF are these 2 modes ? anybody saw anything close to that in other cameras ?
If you read the entire thread you will have noticed that it is focussed on just one specific aspect (resolution) of FOV 4k video and that most of the comments are about a few YouTube conclusions obtained by mis-interpreting resolution chart results. There do appear to be some interesting compromises in the M2P camera, but a lot of the discussion is basically worthless in that it gets most of the details wrong.
Are the actual results in FOV mode from your M2P disappointing you, or have you simply read that you should be disappointed?
Whether or not the resolution/image clarity problem exists, I don't believe it's an engineering issue. DJI themselves elude to their subsampling occuring downstream in the processing pipeline, away from the sensor itself. Bigger sensor might mean better image quality, but it's also a lot easier to cool than a smaller one, so I suspect we can probably disregard heat as an issue. Neither this camera, or my P4s, or the few P4 pros I've been lucky enough to fly get anywhere near what I'd call "hot" for solid state gear. Ambient temperatures here can reach 50+ centigrade, so if something was overheating I think I'd be one of the first to notice 
As frustrating as it is to wait, I think the first few FW updates will be quite telling of their prowess in building their own image processing solution (if the as-of-yet-not-officially-confirmed rumours of DJI dumping ambrella are true).
As frustrating as it is to wait, I think the first few FW updates will be quite telling of their prowess in building their own image processing solution (if the as-of-yet-not-officially-confirmed rumours of DJI dumping ambrella are true).
BlueBay
Well-Known Member
Yes, I think compromise is the word
Once the limitations are known & the optimal setup is configured (subject to individual requirements), we then need to apply post-production corrections (lense, colour, noise etc.) to get the best possible 10-bit image quality. But it takes a while to reach the top of the learning curve (specifically related to the M2P). I suppose people buying the drone today will not need to spend too much time on setup (trial & error) as most of the detail is now well documented in this forum.
But I wish DJI had offered some upfront information & advice regarding image quality as they must have known the limitations (& expectations) at launch. They would have expected the early adopters to go full H.265 D-log FOV (or HLG) from the start in order to get that eye-watering & eye-popping image on their OLED. While immediately comparing it with the P4P & assuming it has at least the same 4K resolution, especially as it has the name HASSELBLAD on the lens!
(But alas we soldier on! I've no doubt that given time they will release the 'Mavic 2 Pro Platinum Pro Plus 2 minus 1' with a full 1.5 inch(!) type sensor (caveat in HQ mode) with 12-bit H.999 !!! But the image resolution will not be as good as the P5P Plus Pro Platinum minus 1 !!!
) Phew!
kilomikebravo
Well-Known Member
Goof: It would seem that my understanding of the cooling issue is perhaps flawed but, I'm curious why you believe it would be easier to cool a larger sensor. My thinking is, the surface area of a 13mm sensor (M2P) is at least four times larger than a 6mm sensor (M1P) but each square mm would get approximately the same amount of cooling air. If you consider how much harder the processor(s) have to work to process four times more APS's, it seems like it COULD be a cooling issue. But, what I do know? Just curious...
KB
I understand this is just related to resolution, but it's actually what matters when you're shooting 4k. Actually I was unimpressed by the FOV mode. It's not bad at all, it's just very similar to my old Mavic 1 and GoPro Hero 6.
What I don't like is the concept of having 2 different modes for doing 4k. I personally bought a 4K 28mm camera with a 1 inch sensor ; and this is what is being marketed by DJI.
Having introduced these 2 modes justifies the fact that DJI is aware that shooting in 28mm (FOV mode) won't provide the quality you're expecting from the camera specs ; that you can only get when using the 40mm/HD mode/cropped mode. The resolutions benchmark are just confirming that there is indeed a "low def" (FOV) and high def mode.
I personally don't want to shoot in 40mm neither do I want to have the same quality in 28mm than the Mavic 1, and I don't want to choose between 2 modes that do not correspond to what I bought.
kilomikebravo
Well-Known Member
Well, my suggestion is to: 1) give DJI time for updates or 2) Send it back if you can or sell it.
Personally, I'm extremely happy with the M2P having owned an M1P since its launch and I just don't understand why some folks think the output from the M2P is no better than the M1P. IMHO, it's WAY better and the aircraft itself is better to boot. More power, faster, smoother flight characteristics, etc., etc.
KB
Same amount of cooling air, but also roughly the same amount of heat generated per square millimeter. I'm speaking purely in terms of the sensor here though. If you've ever pulled a DJI gimbal apart, you'll find that the back of the sensor board is relatively safe to touch while it's recording (though I wouldn't recommend that for ESD / shorting reasons)
The image processing is a different story though. If DJI have completely botched their processing pipeline and just tried to throw CPU cycles at the problem it's quite feasible heat could be a problem there, but this chip is in the main body of the aircraft (I think?). If heat were an issue here though it would have been relatively easy for them to mount a small fan up here like the P4s have, or even just extra venting in the nose + a heatsink.
Yes, I think compromise is the word
Once the limitations are known & the optimal setup is configured (subject to individual requirements), we then need to apply post-production corrections (lense, colour, noise etc.) to get the best possible 10-bit image quality. But it takes a while to reach the top of the learning curve (specifically related to the M2P). I suppose people buying the drone today will not need to spend too much time on setup (trial & error) as most of the detail is now well documented in this forum.
But I wish DJI had offered some upfront information & advice regarding image quality as they must have known the limitations (& expectations) at launch. They would have expected the early adopters to go full H.265 D-log FOV (or HLG) from the start in order to get that eye-watering & eye-popping image on their OLED. While immediately comparing it with the P4P & assuming it has at least the same 4K resolution, especially as it has the name HASSELBLAD on the lens!
(But alas we soldier on! I've no doubt that given time they will release the 'Mavic 2 Pro Platinum Pro Plus 2 minus 1' with a full 1.5 inch(!) type sensor (caveat in HQ mode) with 12-bit H.999 !!! But the image resolution will not be as good as the P5P Plus Pro Platinum minus 1 !!!
I mostly agree, with the caveat that it appears to me that the compromises have had much less effect on real video than has been asserted, based on my limited testing and a lack of actual videos showing any issues. This discussion really was started by one good-faith attempt to interpret resolution charts in comparison with the P4P, but it was not well controlled and the author appeared to misunderstand the physics and the implications.
The modes were clearly described in the specs. In what sense is FOV not offering what is stated in the specs? You don't have to use HQ mode if you don't want to. FOV mode appears to be using the full sensor but is doing something different on the chip to downsample to 4k. It's significantly better than the MPP, if only for its bit depth and lower noise.
BlueBay
Well-Known Member
I agree, better than the MPP, but M2P has a 1 inch Sensor. We are mostly comparing the 4k resolution with the P4P which also has a 1 inch sensor, but the M2P has less 4k resolution (than the P4P) as it's not doing a full readout (of the sensor).
Therein lies the issue! Whether it's hopping, skipping, cooling, binning or evaporating(!) - please give us the full readout so that we can properly feed our OLEDs!
Trees138
Well-Known Member
How are they going to give a full readout and 10-bit and stay under 100Mbps?
That's not some arbitrary limit, you have to have media that can accept all that information and write it in real time.
That's not some arbitrary limit, you have to have media that can accept all that information and write it in real time.
It depends in what you shoot. There are other side effects as more aliasing in the M2P at 4K FOV. If you shoot mostly nature then the effect will be minimized. If you shoot scenes with straight lines (buildings, urban) the subsampling they use in 4K creates quite some aliasing/moire in objects around 300-500m from the drone. You can see it in the video below.
I've watched it my 4K TV in 4K, and the M2P in 4K FOV has far more aliasing/moire than the Autel Evo. In a city landscape it becomes a bit annoying.
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