Too bad guys don't recognize how good the Typhoons are; and Anfai is an excellent value compared to the M series.
Mavic Pro-2 vs Zoom and P4P - Line Skipping + Sensor Heat?
- Thread starter Cliff_622
- Start date
Too bad guys don't recognize how good the Typhoons are; and Anfai is an excellent value compared to the M series.
kilomikebravo
Well-Known Member
Maybe I’ve just crazy eyes, but I just don’t see this noticeably “better”. To me, the 4K FOV is barely better than the resolution power shown in the 2.7k snip, and to me the MP1 is clearly able to more clearly resolve than the FOV on the M2P regardless of clearly additional sharpening. But, I’m just a chump...maybe it’s just me and my eyes.
pity that you did not compare hq vs mav1
for m2 2.7 - it must be sayed: the difference is obvious. but bitrate on 2.7 is 1/2 of 4k bitrate (50Mb vs 100Mb - so chosen by dji). it would be interesting to see 2.7 in 100Mb bitrate and then do comparison.
I think possibly you are just not familiar with resolution charts. The 2.7k resolution is about what you would expect in this context:
The 4k FOV is better:
But it's not as good as the full sensor DNG downsampled to 4k:
You have to pay attention to the numbers - just because you can see lines doesn't mean it was properly resolved. For example, compare the angled lines labelled 5 - they superficially look as if they were resolved in the 2.7k and 4k FOV crops, but then you notice that they are coarser than the lines labelled 3. They are resolved in the downsampled DNG, albeit with artifacts.
The full DNG resolution shows how they should look - it doesn't show serious artifacts until level 7.
Don't get yourself fooled by the diagonal line test. The screens above are to small to see the dirty trick. Look at my comparison below. At a first glance the M2P FOW kicks-**** all others.... but then I counted the lines.... :-(
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That shows exactly the same results, except that you didn't include wide enough line pairs to assess either the 2.7k or 4k FOV resolution. Were you unable to view the images any larger, or read what I wrote ? The M2P FOV resolution is better than the 2.7k resolution, but it doesn't kick anything else.
Sorry, this is something I cannot see. Help me out, in which of the line resolution of your images does the 4K FOV show more details then the 2.7K?
Quantitatively, 3 and 4. The 4k FOV resolves level 3 without artifacts and almost resolves level 4. The 2.7k has artifacts at level 3 and completely misses 4. If you are unfamiliar with line pair degradation, look at the numbers themselves - the difference is obvious there.
this video by op went from 34k views to 21k a couple days later, checked on friday was 14k, cant find it in search here
What I was delicately trying to suggest you was - not to use Mlog. It is much to much unsharp (unclear). Also, you'll not get any more detail from it. Not to mention the noise. Just be patient and wait for next FW.
In the meantime you can do colorgrade from vid. in "normal" color, using all HQ benefits (except 10 bit).
It was meant to be helpful.
p.s.
I used this clip just to show how much aliasing you can expect in hq
Not too sure if the difference is significant. I took your pics and put them together with the original. In my point of view they both make it up to 3.2-3.3 and then the vodoo begins. But regarding the distance you filmed the chart, the next frame could give an opposite result...
Especially the Binning/skipping with the micro movement of the gimbal result in a strong variation comparing the frames.
But as Igor said, we can pixel-peep a day long, we have no other option than to wait for a new FW. But with the noise made, I presume the chances increase that something will change.
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Voodoo? I was assuming that you understood the underlying principle of aliasing. I don't see how you can view those two results as equivalent, but it's not my place to convince you otherwise.
In my opinion the vertical lines are not particularly useful, except for taking line profiles and then analyzing numerically, because the aliasing artifacts are too difficult to distinguish from the pattern itself.
Sorry for my sloppy wording. I would love to continue this conversation in German and I promise, I would not be rude between the lines.
But the "Voodoo" was pointing on the reason for this aliasing. Line skipping, pixel binning or this magical "raw subsampling" and "surprisingly" kicking in in about the same pixel density in 4K FOV and 2.7K... whereas 1080p has a significant distance to 2.7K
Thank you for your efforts here SAR- no doubt many will find the results very informative.
It would seem that we can now safely almost completely discount certain of the previous assumptions, particularly the suggestion that the sensor performance was crippled by heat issues or that the 4K FOV output was simply an upsampled 2.7K sensor read.
It is doubtful DJI has tried to pull as swifty on us.
If in fact DJI employed the Sony IMX183CQJ sensor in the M2P a quick perusal of the published specifications reveals that the only readout mode that supports all pixel scan in 10bit depth above 25fps is "type 1/1.4" which provides 9.03mpx max at 17:9 aspect ratio (reading 71% of the sensor horizontally). All other readout modes above 25fps employ a combination of horizontal and/or vertical line addition.
FOV mode must be subject to the sensor limitations, that is line addition is, and must be, employed prior to further SOC processing.
DJI has perhaps shot themselves in the foot by not providing further explanation as the the technical issues with the camera and the design decisions. HQ mode looks like a genuine attempt to give us something extra. Unfortunately they are being criticised by those of us who might not appreciate they have done the best they might have done with FOV mode given the Sensor limitations.
Sorry for my sloppy wording. I would love to continue this conversation in German and I promise, I would not be rude between the lines.
But the "Voodoo" was pointing on the reason for this aliasing. Line skipping, pixel binning or this magical "raw subsampling" and "surprisingly" kicking in in about the same pixel density in 4K FOV and 2.7K... whereas 1080p has a significant distance to 2.7K
Apologies - I should have considered the possibility of a language barrier. Your English is better than my German though. Okay - we can check the difference that would be expected for 4k vs 2.7k upsampled back to 4k.
High-resolution view of the crop
4k bicubic downsample
Downsampled to 2.7k then upsampled to 4k
The second and third images show the theoretical maximum resolutions available at 4k with this image. Notice that the artifacts on the 2.7k only show up one level earlier than on the actual 4k, and that the last recognizable level is also just one level different.
My conclusions so far:
4k FOV is not just upsampled 2.7k, but that would be a ridiculously poor strategy - I can't believe that anyone really thought that.
4k FOV is worse than the M2P 20 MP images downsampled to 4k, but that was expected - we just don't know how they are being generated.
4k FOV is not too dissimilar to 4k on the Mavic Pro, but since both have more than enough resolution for 4k, that's not particularly surprising. The 10 bit output from the M2P is superior by other metrics.
4k HQ is almost exactly as expected in compared to the full 20 MP images.
None of the results quite lives up to the theoretical maximum shown above, but given the additional factors of real lens effects, low-pass filters etc., it's credibly close.That Typhoon looks cool but the size and set up turned me off. I don't know much about the Anafi, Heck, I've hardly heard a word about it since it launched.
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