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Mavic Pro-2 vs Zoom and P4P - Line Skipping + Sensor Heat?

I agree with you that the M2P is superior to the M1P in almost every respect, but how does a variable aperture make it better for low light footage if the widest aperture of the M2P is smaller (2.8) than the one in the M1P (2.2)? It's because of the photosite size and sensor technology that it is better.
Aperture is a ratio, not an absolute measurement of anything.

Focal length / fstop = aperture diameter. We know the true focal length of the mavic pro is around 4.7mm to the mavic 2's 10.6mm

4.7/2.2 = 2.1mm diameter for the mavic pro, 3.5mm^2 in area
10.6/2.8 = 3.8mm diameter for the mavic 2 pro, 18.1mm^2 in area. Sure looks wider to me...

EDIT: Mixed up radius/diameter...
 
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Aperture is a ratio, not an absolute measurement of anything.

Focal length / fstop = aperture diameter. We know the true focal length of the mavic pro is around 4.7mm to the mavic 2's 10.6mm

4.7/2.2 = 2.1mm diameter for the mavic pro, 3.5mm^2 in area
10.6/2.8 = 3.8mm diameter for the mavic 2 pro, 18.1mm^2 in area. Sure looks wider to me...

EDIT: Mixed up radius/diameter...
Yes, you're right. What I was trying to point out is that a variable aperture does not necessarily imply better low light performance (as was stated in the post I was replying to, now edited) and as you point out neither a nominal wider aperture does until we take into account the size of the sensor, focal length and the photosite size.
 
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If your refer to the water-tower and the attached antennas, yes it looks like as if the 4K FOV shows slight more details. But unfortunately these are only artefacts caused by the sharpening setting. I'll ad a shot with a decent camera, which shows how it looks like in reality.
Here is a comparison to ensure the "slight more Details" you may see are actually details.. ;-)
Mavic-Comparison.jpg
 
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So the original Mavic Pro started shipping on October 15th 2016. It received four FW upgrades within the first 9 weeks of existance.

Date : 2016.10.21
Firmware : v01.02.0800

Date : 2016.11.09
Firmware : v01.02.0900

Date : 2016.12.06
Firmware : v01.03.0000

Date : 2016.12.26
Firmware : v01.03.0200

https://dl.djicdn.com/downloads/mavic/20170622/Mavic_Pro_Release_Notes_en.pdf

The Mavic 2 Pro started shipping on August 26th 2018 it's almost 7 weeks being shipped. Apart from the launch FW upgrade to V01.00.0000 on August 28th there has been no upgrades whatsoever, so this makes me hope they are cooking a big upgrade.

My current theory:

I think they did 4K FOV on purpose trying to make it worse than the P4P V2.0 so they can milk the white cow more. When prior to release they realised the issues with FOV and probably got negative feedback from initial reviewers, they quickly cooked HQ to compensate hoping the public would be okay with that.

This backfired and the M2P is probably the recent DJI drone that has received more negative reactions regarding IQ from the community. On top of that M2P probably outsells M2Z 4:1 at least (the M2P forum has 8 times as many messages as the M2Z forum), so this creates a huge base of unhappy customers.

Christmas season is approaching and the negative publicity can hurt sales. M2Z is very nice but other than the 2x optical zoom the IQ is similar in photo/video to the Mavic Air which costs far less. You get a better datalink and flight time, but this is not a must for everybody, plus in the Mavic Air everything is cheaper and easier to carry.

So I hope they reconsidered their initial strategy and this long wait for a FW upgrade means they are revamping the FW so we demanding users will be finally satisfied and sales will be boosted. In their vague justification for 4K FOV following Cliff's video got popular they didn't mention any thermal or hardware limitation for their subsampling approach, so I believe there is room for improvement.
 
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I think they did 4K FOV on purpose trying to make it worse than the P4P V2.0 so they can milk the white cow more. When prior to release they realised the issues with FOV and probably got negative feedback from initial reviewers, they quickly cooked HQ to compensate hoping the public would be okay with that.

P4P was pronounced EOL prior to the M2 launch (or maybe just after that). Maybe they wanted to wait a bit to allow retailers time to clear older P4P stock at current prices, rather than have to let it slide down a bracket (presuming a theoretical P5 that would slide into the segment currently occupied by the P4P)
 
P4P was pronounced EOL prior to the M2 launch (or maybe just after that). Maybe they wanted to wait a bit to allow retailers time to clear older P4P stock at current prices, rather than have to let it slide down a bracket (presuming a theoretical P5 that would slide into the segment currently occupied by the P4P)

The DJI reps in RC Groups crearly stated EOL affected the P4P but not the P4P V2.0. P4P V2.0 stays.

RC Groups - View Single Post - Official DJI Mavic 2 ***Owner Thread***
 
Majority of that video were Hyperlapses, they extracted the raw images, edited them in LR for the best dynamic range, imported to Premiere for Warp Stabilizer and BAM! But even the actual footage looked amazing. The original Mavic turned trees to watercolor mush and couldn’t see faces of people at a distance. The Mavic 2 improved at both.

Well it was dang nice is all I'm saying! That's what I'm shooting for in the end. I've been flying for awhile and don't use quick shots or any of that so my circles have a lot of mistakes to edit out! Then trying to match it to music. Then COLOR GRADING! Ugh. I need to work on getting the right shot on-site and having a plan. I normally just launch the drone where I am and start the camera. It's fun but makes for poor videos! Hahaha!
 
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I might get this video editing down yet. I feel like I'm getting closer...of course that last video doesn't help my confidence any...


Here. I'll help you with it:
Jittering: (whole clip) - its caused by shutter speed. when filming 30p your SS must stay at 60.
Aliasing: (0:28 – 0.58) don't worry about it. you can do nothing against it anyway, it's irreparable. (pic. in attach.)
Speeding up image: (1:03) - avoid fast moving object. like cars. it reveals you.
Fast moving object: (3:06) - driving cars at the bottom of the screen behaves as in a Lumiere film. it is SS again. see above.
Mlog: (best seen from 1:09 till 2:40 min.) - don't use it. if you don't know what to do with it in post. you see, your eyes are seeing the picture, but your brain is processing it, trying to understand what's going on. example: when you watch low resolution picture - your eyes see it but your brain knows immediately: it is low resolution so he dont care.
the thing with high res. pic. is different. if your brain see it as unfocused picture, you eyes will try to focus. and if you watch it to long, like when editing, it can damage your eyesight. or your brain. i've noticed that, since you start to do editing, you have wrote many ha ha at the end of your comments.
anyway.
mlog require lots of work in post, including sharpening. so, just don't use it. you can edit colors from „no log“ picture much easier.

p.s.
matching to the music was ok
 

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Mavic 1 cannot produce footage like this. Resolution is one thing, actual detail is another.


Again I think you are confused. The M2 has NO details, you would have gotten better details with M1. You got it the other way around, they both have 4k resolution, but the m2 has less details (unless you use HQ mode)
 
Here. I'll help you with it:
Jittering: (whole clip) - its caused by shutter speed. when filming 30p your SS must stay at 60.
Aliasing: (0:28 – 0.58) don't worry about it. you can do nothing against it anyway, it's irreparable. (pic. in attach.)
Speeding up image: (1:03) - avoid fast moving object. like cars. it reveals you.
Fast moving object: (3:06) - driving cars at the bottom of the screen behaves as in a Lumiere film. it is SS again. see above.
Mlog: (best seen from 1:09 till 2:40 min.) - don't use it. if you don't know what to do with it in post. you see, your eyes are seeing the picture, but your brain is processing it, trying to understand what's going on. example: when you watch low resolution picture - your eyes see it but your brain knows immediately: it is low resolution so he dont care.
the thing with high res. pic. is different. if your brain see it as unfocused picture, you eyes will try to focus. and if you watch it to long, like when editing, it can damage your eyesight. or your brain. i've noticed that, since you start to do editing, you have wrote many ha ha at the end of your comments.
anyway.
mlog require lots of work in post, including sharpening. so, just don't use it. you can edit colors from „no log“ picture much easier.

p.s.
matching to the music was ok

Jittering: yea I'm pretty sure that I had it at the correct shutter speed, so I don't know. YouTube compression maybe?

Aliasing: yea that's a thing but it was worse on my MP.

Speed: I wrestled with that one but I flew these orbits by hand and they were too slow. So I sucked it up and speed up the footage. I considered cropping the cars out but the angle was wrong for that. It's something I'll work on in the future.

MLog: the whole point for me is to take on something that I haven't done before. I could have kept flying my 3DR Solo, my Karma or my MP and kept doing what I was doing. Heck, the GoPro app all but edits for you! If I were to record in H264 normal, I may as well have kept using the MP. Apparently, according to you, that's what I should have done. Well, what you should at least suspect, it's that I'm not the type to give up so...

My mental state: I'm no crazier or violent than I was before so I don't think editing has had an effect on me. I'll take it up at the VA next time I'm in for PTSD counseling and see what they think but I'm pretty sure it's a non issue. I've always used "hahaha" rather than lol as a way of being different. I wasn't aware of any correlation between it's use and insanity but again, I'll make inquiries.

Low res: because I used the 180 rule and things are always moving, I would expect constant blurring of the image. Isn't that correct? I used to use high shutter speeds because I mainly extracted pictures from video in the past. That's why my photo account is massive, while my YouTube account isn't. Everyone was always, "you should post videos" because I fly almost every day as my job runs me all over the place and I see things that I find interesting all the time. So I posted videos and everyone hated how un cinematic they were. This video was shot in HQ BTW, not that it matters. I'm not afraid of hard work and I'll keep at it until I'm happy with the results.

Music: yea that was easy but thanks for the begrudging compliment.

I know you're not really wanting to "help" me but I appreciate it anyway because it does help re enforce a lot of what I already think. So thank you.
 
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FYI I have low confidence in anything Ken or Ed state at RCG; Blade recently said don't expect a P5.

I agree with you on that, they have been unrealiable in the past (e.g. claiming P3P initially couldn't do 2.7K because a "HW limitation" using the same SOC than other cameras that did it. It was later added).

However considering DJI introduced P4P V2.0 in May 2018 it makes sense to keep it going as "bridge" until P5 arrives since for them it was a minimal investment to develop it.
 
I agree with you on that, they have been unrealiable in the past (e.g. claiming P3P initially couldn't do 2.7K because a "HW limitation" using the same SOC than other cameras that did it. It was later added).

However considering DJI introduced P4P V2.0 in May 2018 it makes sense to keep it going as "bridge" until P5 arrives since for them it was a minimal investment to develop it.

Yea if we take the Mavic Pro to Mavic Pro Platinum to Mavic 2 as a template, I doubt the P5P will be out soon. Add to that the real lack of any significant competition apart from maybe the Yuneec Typhoon H Plus that costs about $1900 and hardly anyone has even talked about. I was honestly surprised to see it at Best Buy the other day on the shelf.
 
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Again I think you are confused. The M2 has NO details, you would have gotten better details with M1. You got it the other way around, they both have 4k resolution, but the m2 has less details (unless you use HQ mode)

Yay HQ Mode, that's my jam!
 
Here are some comparisons that have been discussed, all at ISO 100 and f2.8.

(1) M1P vs M2P DNG files, with the M1P upsampled to 20 MP:

M1P_DNG_upsample_crop.jpg
M1P DNG upsampled
M2P_DNG_crop.jpg
M2P DNG

That shows exactly what you would expect - the 20 MP sensor clearly does better than the 12 MP sensor.

(2) M2P HQ:

M2P_HQ_crop.jpg

Similar resolution to the M2P DNG - not surprising since it is reading out the same pixels in this cropped video mode.

(3) M1P 4k vs M2P 4k FOV

M1P_4k_crop.jpg
M1P 4k

M2P_FOV_crop.jpg
M2P 4k FOV

Interesting result. The M1P 4k looks like it has much more sharpening applying, even at a -1 setting. It also has a lot more artifacts. Absolute line resolution appears to be similar, but the M2P resolution fades better to unresolved than the M1P.

(4) M2P 2.7k vs M2P 4k FOV

M2P_2.7k_upsample_crop.jpg
M2P 2.7k upsampled to 4k

M2P_FOV_crop.jpg
M2P 4k FOV

Unremarkable. The 4k FOV is noticeably better, both in terms of sharpness and resolution.
 
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