Mavic Pro II - New Image Sensor?

gnirtS · Feb 1, 2018

From a business point of view releasing a new mavic with an upgraded camera makes no sense until the Phantom brand has been rehashed. Quite simply, a new mavic with a good camera would pretty much kill the P4 and P4Pro market stone dead.
The mavic pros weakest area by a long way is its poor camera and im fairly sure a lot of that is a deliberate choice as opposed to a technical limitation.

Cliff_622 · Feb 1, 2018

gnirtS said:
From a business point of view releasing a new mavic with an upgraded camera makes no sense until the Phantom brand has been rehashed. Quite simply, a new mavic with a good camera would pretty much kill the P4 and P4Pro market stone dead.
The mavic pros weakest area by a long way is its poor camera and im fairly sure a lot of that is a deliberate choice as opposed to a technical limitation.

Yes,...you are right. The Mavic Pro-II "will" kill the P4Pro. It's designed to completely replace the P4Pro. I guess just think of the Mavic Pro-II as the TRUE successor to the current P4Pro.

I believe the Phantom 5 is literally a brand NEW market class that has not ever existed today. There has always been a large gap between the Phantoms and the Inspire II. This Phantom 5 is designed to create a new class. This would be Inspire-II 10bit quality with high end camera and removable lenses. This is designed to go places the current Inspire-II cant go. This is a drone that "actual" pros want but cant use their Inspire monster to on.

So I think that is the best explanation. Phantom 4 Pro people will "upgrade" to the Mavic Pro-II (which will cost what the P4P did) because it will have everything electronically...and I mean "everything" literally, that the P4P has today in a fold-able body.

For P4P flyers that want to take TWO steps up, they can put allot more money down on a Phantom 5....and get a "mini Inspire"!!

The Mavic Pro grabs the Phantom 4 Pro market,...the Phantom 5 grabs a big chunk of the Inspire market. The Inspire-III creates a new 6k/8k Hollwood Micro 4/3 and Super 35mm "exotic" money market.

In 2018...all new DJI aircraft leaves where they used to live and moves UP one category. Right?

Mavic Air challenges Mavic Pro.
Mavic Pro-II FULLY takes P4P market.
Phantom 5 heavily challenges Inspire-II market.
Inspire-III is now in a new higher category with no "real" competition above it.

But,...what the heck to I know. I'm just talking outa my butt anyway! ;-)

P.S. Oh...I dont think the Mavic Pro's camera was deliberately crippled when I was created. I think that DJI just bought in to the Ambarella image processor because it was cheap and was already being used by older GoPros. They thought "Well?...if Ambarella is good enough for GoPro then we can take it too.) I'm guessing DJI regretted it right after the Mavic Pro was created. DJI has stated that after the Mavic Pro was released to the market, they IMMEDIATELY began work on it's successor.

Gray_seagull · Feb 2, 2018

Cliff_622 said:
Yes,...you are right. The Mavic Pro-II "will" kill the P4Pro. It's designed to completely replace the P4Pro. I guess just think of the Mavic Pro-II as the TRUE successor to the current P4Pro.

I believe the Phantom 5 is literally a brand NEW market class that has not ever existed today. There has always been a large gap between the Phantoms and the Inspire II. This Phantom 5 is designed to create a new class. This would be Inspire-II 10bit quality with high end camera and removable lenses. This is designed to go places the current Inspire-II cant go. This is a drone that "actual" pros want but cant use their Inspire monster to on.

So I think that is the best explanation. Phantom 4 Pro people will "upgrade" to the Mavic Pro-II (which will cost what the P4P did) because it will have everything electronically...and I mean "everything" literally, that the P4P has today in a fold-able body.

For P4P flyers that want to take TWO steps up, they can put allot more money down on a Phantom 5....and get a "mini Inspire"!!

The Mavic Pro grabs the Phantom 4 Pro market,...the Phantom 5 grabs a big chunk of the Inspire market. The Inspire-III creates a new 6k/8k Hollwood Micro 4/3 and Super 35mm "exotic" money market.

In 2018...all new DJI aircraft leaves where they used to live and moves UP one category. Right?

Mavic Air challenges Mavic Pro.
Mavic Pro-II FULLY takes P4P market.
Phantom 5 heavily challenges Inspire-II market.
Inspire-III is now in a new higher category with no "real" competition above it.

But,...what the heck to I know. I'm just talking outa my butt anyway! ;-)

P.S. Oh...I dont think the Mavic Pro's camera was deliberately crippled when I was created. I think that DJI just bought in to the Ambarella image processor because it was cheap and was already being used by older GoPros. They thought "Well?...if Ambarella is good enough for GoPro then we can take it too.) I'm guessing DJI regretted it right after the Mavic Pro was created. DJI has stated that after the Mavic Pro was released to the market, they IMMEDIATELY began work on it's successor.

I don't think that any phantom series with the same rigid n ugly body can challenge the inspire 2. If you go full speed forward with p4p you get props in your video but the inspire 2 has landing gear that raises well above the camera to avoid such a thing. Plus many other features like almost 360 degrees rotating camera. The inspire 2 is by far the best drone dji ever made. It's price is well above the regular consumers' budget but it's design is far superior than that of the phantom.

Scrap all phantom series and introduce the "Inspire Air" within the price range you have mentioned

Cliff_622 · Feb 2, 2018

Oh, the Inspire-II is insane. I'm never going to question that. But it's a heavy duty mission to move that package around. When you fly that thing, it looks like a futuristic military weapon! If you want attention, you will surely get it when you send that baby up.

No, I dont mean that a Phantom 5 will destroy the Inspire-II sales. I'm merely saying that a Phantom 5 with new Sony RS model sensor with 240, 480 and 960 fps,60 or 120p 4K and 150Mbp/s or 200Mbp/s or 400Mbps 10bit video (like the Lumix GH5 chipset) in a form factor that is much smaller than and Inspire-II will get you ALLOT of Inspire flyers to spend $2,500 - $3,000 on the P5 as a secondary camera for their Inspire. Some potential Inspire buyers could say,.."Wow, this P5 has VERY high specs, I'd rather use that and stay "low key" for my project.

A P5 like this would be a VERY strong candidate for a HUGE amount of professional projects.

Gray_seagull · Feb 2, 2018

Two main features I would love to see them in consumer drones, elimination of props in video and 360 degrees rotating camera. The rest of our wish list come next.

rkyleh · Feb 2, 2018

Gray_seagull said:
I don't think that any phantom series with the same rigid n ugly body can challenge the inspire 2. If you go full speed forward with p4p you get props in your video but the inspire 2 has landing gear that raises well above the camera to avoid such a thing. Plus many other features like almost 360 degrees rotating camera. The inspire 2 is by far the best drone dji ever made. It's price is well above the regular consumers' budget but it's design is far superior than that of the phantom.

Scrap all phantom series and introduce the "Inspire Air" within the price range you have mentioned

I agree on this. Get rid of that phantom shape and make a p5 inspire with the camera upgrade love that design.

FlashGJ · Feb 2, 2018

Cliff_622 said:
Yes,...you are right. The Mavic Pro-II "will" kill the P4Pro. It's designed to completely replace the P4Pro. I guess just think of the Mavic Pro-II as the TRUE successor to the current P4Pro..

I agree with your strategy. They have already cannabilzed the MP market with the MA. The vast majority of new drone buyers will buy the MA instead of a MP. DJI, in my opinion, must come out with a MP2 with improved camera and additional features to separate it further from the MA or that market will shrink horribly.

Cliff_622 · Feb 3, 2018

So if the Cinema 5D video's DJI representative is correct, the Mavic Air uses the same image processor as the Phantom 4 Pro.

We know this is the Ambarella H1-A1-RS. This is a long shot away from the current Mavic Pro that uses the Ambarella - A9-A1-RH. (This old chip dates all the way back to the GoPro Hero 3!...no wonder the Mavic Pro looks like it does!)

So it's certainly reasonable to expect that DJI could move the P4P camera, it's image processor and all that programming that was already built to the new Mavic Pro-II...fairly easily?

That would be an AMAZING upgrade to the Mavic. As a P4P and Air owner today,....I'm dying to buy this thing already!

AND....for you Phantom 5 fans.....DJI could buy this:

Ambarella H2 video SoC (Image processor and CODEC)
Image Processing
° 3D motion-compensated noise reduction (MCTF)
° Adjustable AE / AWB / AF
° Lens Distortion Correction (LDC) for wide-angle-lens
° Defect pixel correction
° Geometric and chroma lens distortion correction
° Backlight compensation
° Electronic Image Stabilization and tilt correction up to 4Kp60
° Crop, mirror, flip, 90 ° / 270 ° rotation
Video Encoding
° H.265 / HEVC MP Level 5.1 encoding up to 4K, 60p in 10 bit color
° H.264 MP / HP Level 5.2 encoding up to 4K, 120p
° Simultaneous streams
° Multiple CBR and VBR rate control modes

gnirtS · Feb 4, 2018

Image processor can only do so much when the actual sensor is responsible for capture and it appears the Air uses the same sensor as the mavic pro. So the awful dynamic range and iso noise will stay.
The switch to 100mbps 4k video though is a massive massive improvement.

Cliff_622 · Feb 4, 2018

gnirtS said:
Image processor can only do so much when the actual sensor is responsible for capture and it appears the Air uses the same sensor as the mavic pro. So the awful dynamic range and iso noise will stay.
The switch to 100mbps 4k video though is a massive massive improvement.

The Air has a FAR better noise reduction algorithm in it's image processor than the Mavic Pro has. The Ambarella ISP in the Mavic Pro dates all the way back to the GoPro Hero 3!

But yes,....same image sensor limitations. The Air does not show all that poor temporal noise reduction "mud" and "smear" that the Mavic Pro has. The old Ambarella A1-A9 is dead and burried.

CT

Grindeddown · Feb 4, 2018

Cliff_622 said:
So,...dang. After reading allot of rumor sites and seeing that Autel is working on an EVO variant with a 1inch-type sensor. I'm thinking I could be wrong about the Mavic Pro-II not having a 1inch-type sensor.

Here I'm thinking they will move up to a 1/1.7 and how great that would be,...but it seems that are going to bypass that and go straight for the throat!

Wow,...this is gutsy! It makes we wonder if it was Autel that pressured DJI to do this???

If they do this for the Mavic Pro-II, then this becomes "all-everything" drone that just about about everybody will buy. I mean it becomes the "drone to end all drones" lol

Are they going to price this thing in Phantom 4/5 territory?...and leave the current Mavic Pro where it sits today? We can certainly say that the Phantom 4 Pro will be completely dead. Where does this leave the Phantom 5? What would the P5 have that we could "really" want? Enough to make us buy and lug that thing around? I love my P4P but I hate traveling with it and I hate the attention it draws when I fly. I suffer through all this because it has the ONE and ONLY thing I want,....a 1inch-type sensor! If you give this sensor to me in small folding Mavic Pro-II, there is NO reason left for me to own the P4P.

Now,...the P4P has both H.264 and HEVC h.265 at 100mbp/s. Today I shoot entirely in HEVC and it's SUPER clean encoding. If you locked a Mavic Pro-II down with 100Mbp/s h.264 only....I dont think that HEVC upgrade on the Phantom is enough to keep me using it. 100mb/s is STILL pretty **** goo behind that Sony 1inch-type sensor.

I just have to think that the Mavic Pro-II is literally a Phantom 4 and 5 KILLER. I cant see any reason for most people to buy a Phontom 5 if the Mavic Pro-II has the same sensor. Even if DJI tried to attract us with Phantom 5 10bit color at 150mbp/s wouldn't work. Even with removable lenses, It just wont be enough for 75% of Phantom owners to stay in the Phantom form factor.

Wow!,...your thoughts?

Honestly, removable lenses would be the only thing they would need to add and I’ll buck up for a P5.

Gray_seagull · Feb 5, 2018

latest rumor

Talley · Feb 5, 2018

Here is my take.

MP2 = X3 camera w/ 3x zoom lens with latest processor as found in MA and P4P. Larger battery w/ 32min flight, rear avoidance. improved gimbal performance.

P5P = 1" sensor. interchangeable lenses, 2 prime options and a 3x zoom option. Adds vertical avoidance camera and functional during normal P mode flight side sensors. DUAL battery option for 42min flights. 50mph top speed. low noise props, sinusoidal esc's. will not have the ability for 360 camera.

I know the X3 camera would be a disappointment for some... but it would be a huge "marketing" selling point for DJI, would protect the P5P and they both kind of have an uptick in upgrades.

Just_nick · Feb 6, 2018

I'm honestly hoping that they decide that the Phantom 5 should be like a mini Inspire, with a retractable gear option for a 360 camera. The Yuneec Typhoon H Plus pulls it off, especially with the new sensor they put in the Plus model, and that's pretty much the Pro's direct competitor. That would allow for more versatility, especially for doing high-speed things like chasing trophy trucks.

Robert Granata · Feb 6, 2018

Wondering what microsd card can be written to at 100 mbp/s? I thought the best cards could only do 80 to 90 max.

Gray_seagull · Feb 6, 2018

Cliff_622 · Feb 6, 2018

Robert Granata said:
Wondering what microsd card can be written to at 100 mbp/s? I thought the best cards could only do 80 to 90 max.

100Mbp/s equals MegaBITS per second,...not "bytes".

8 bits per byte....so that's: 100 divide by 8 = 12.5 megaBYTES per second.

12.5 megabytes per second is not that hard for good quality modern cards sold in the past year.

Robert Granata · Feb 6, 2018

Cliff_622 said:
100Mbp/s equals MegaBITS per second,...not "bytes".

8 bits per byte....so that's: 100 divide by 8 = 12.5 megaBYTES per second.

12.5 megabytes per second is not that hard for good quality modern cards sold in the past year.

Thanks

Cliff_622 · Mar 29, 2018

BUMP!

So our friend OSITALV is now stating that he was WRONG about the Mavic Pro-II having a 1inch-type sensor! He is now saying what I said here back in January! He is saying DJI will use the 1/1.7 sensor that I stated on my first post here. Unfortunately, it's nowhere near the 1inch-type sensor in size.

I always believed it would be really hard to install a camera that large on the Mavic Pro-II. Imagine hanging the P4P camera on a MP-II. I dont think Autel is going to do it either.

Let's see,...but doing a Sony IMX266 would be a GREAT step up from the little 1/2.3 the Mavics are using today!

Wow!

NEXT BIG QUESTION!...Can DJI add a Phantom 4 Pro styled automatic iris/aperture to the new Mavic Pro-II lens? Or, will it be stuck with a locked aperture at 2.8 and rely on crazy, wildly shifting shutter speeds to control exposure? Adding an aperture will allow you to lock your shutter at 1/60 and fly around with a moving aperture like a real video camcorder would do. Like the P4P has.

Paul2660 · Mar 30, 2018

I had hoped to see a 1" sensor and 20MP for the Mavic Pro II. If this latest info is true, then the Mavic will still be in the 12MP size and for a stills photographer, like myself, that's unfortunate. They are still showing that there will be a variable aperture however and that is an improvement. Attempting to cram 20MP into the smaller sensors will be a waste due to noise. The Mavic can get pretty enough noise as it is.

The P4 still has noise at least from many raws I have been able to see, but it's more controllable in post (raw). However the P4 is large, and loud and not as easy to carry in the field, for remote work. Especially if you are also going to carry a DSLR along also. The P4 won't collapse at all so it's pretty hard to carry it unless it's in a dedicated back.

The Mavic Pro still is the only consumer drone I know from dji that offers the camera in portrait and landscape (great for panos). The P4 has a larger sensor, better DR, but it doesn't offer the Portrait mode.

This puts me back to waiting to see if the P5 offers any new type of setup, i.e. collapsible legs or different style of lens, more in the Mavic line up. Also will wait to see if DJI does make a new P4 version with a more quieter setup. as the noise for me is the most problematic issue.

Paul Caldwell