Mavic Resolution 7 Details comparison 4k vs 2.7k ; JPG vs. DNG

[Ender]

Hi !
I made some effort to gt a feeling if 4k delivers more Details then 2,7k.
If that would NOT be the case then i better go for 2,7k as the "per pixel" compression ratio is better.
I even had "compression sharpness pumping" in my maiden flight bt i am very picky aout it (60% grass, 30% trees, 10% cloudy sky, bad lighting).
I did NOT have compression sharpness pumping at 2,7k yet shooting similar clips.
(There is ALWAYS some due to I/P frames but if i dont notice them they are non of my business )

So i produced a simple test setup:
Siemensstern & USAF 1952 Printouts at 5m distance, Mavic centered towards the targets, GOOD Lighting, Focus done in 2x Mag while doing 1080p streaming on a Retina 10" Android Tablet, triple checked that focus wont get better, THEN left it unchanged.
Took 4second clips in 4k Cinematic@24FPS, 4k@30FPS, 2,7k@30FPS, 1080p@30FPS, 720p@30FPS, JPG, DNG.
Mavic set to -2,0,0 as DJI does a horrible sharpening job on the data otherwise IMO.

I interprete the results in the way that i will continue to shoot in 2,7k and that i will ALWAYS shoot JPG + DNG as DNG not only has its "usual" advantages but also a very noticable Detail advantage.

Numbers:

Siemensstern ( Moiré radius / Total radius, smaller is better ):

4kCinematik@24 FPS      0,42
4k@30                   0,43
2,7k@30                 0,43
1080p@30                0,61
720p@30                 0,68
JPG                     0,36
DNG                     0,28

USAF 1951 (First number Reslution Group, -1 BETTER than -2, Second number subfield, bigger is better)

4kCinematik@24 FPS      -1;1
4k@30                   -1;1
2,7k@30                 -1;1
1080p@30                -2;2
720p@30                 -2;1
JPG                     -1;2
DNG                     -1;3

This was far away from scientific and it is valid for MY Mavic but having seen quite some clips now i doubt that the variance is VERY big.

I wanted to imagine that 4k contains more Detail but it wasnt in the numbers.
I went into a little more (exhausting) Detail in my German post but thats way to much for this place, send me a PM if interested.
And remember this was done for MYSELF to judge what to do, your decision probably variees

Greetings,
Ender

P.S. Todo list: DNG profile (actually part of my current job is writing a DNG profiler) and ICC profiles for some standard lightings, dynamic range measurement JPG vs. DNG, Multiexposure effeciency, ISO noise profile, but at first: GETTING GOOD WEATHER TO FLY

 

[Butterpuff 6]

Hi !
I made some effort to gt a feeling if 4k delivers more Details then 2,7k.
If that would NOT be the case then i better go for 2,7k as the "per pixel" compression ratio is better.
I even had "compression sharpness pumping" in my maiden flight bt i am very picky aout it (60% grass, 30% trees, 10% cloudy sky, bad lighting).
I did NOT have compression sharpness pumping at 2,7k yet shooting similar clips.
(There is ALWAYS some due to I/P frames but if i dont notice them they are non of my business )

So i produced a simple test setup:
Siemensstern & USAF 1952 Printouts at 5m distance, Mavic centered towards the targets, GOOD Lighting, Focus done in 2x Mag while doing 1080p streaming on a Retina 10" Android Tablet, triple checked that focus wont get better, THEN left it unchanged.
Took 4second clips in 4k Cinematic@24FPS, 4k@30FPS, 2,7k@30FPS, 1080p@30FPS, 720p@30FPS, JPG, DNG.
Mavic set to -2,0,0 as DJI does a horrible sharpening job on the data otherwise IMO.

I interprete the results in the way that i will continue to shoot in 2,7k and that i will ALWAYS shoot JPG + DNG as DNG not only has its "usual" advantages but also a very noticable Detail advantage.

Numbers:

Siemensstern ( Moiré radius / Total radius, smaller is better ):

4kCinematik@24 FPS      0,42
4k@30                   0,43
2,7k@30                 0,43
1080p@30                0,61
720p@30                 0,68
JPG                     0,36
DNG                     0,28

USAF 1951 (First number Reslution Group, -1 BETTER than -2, Second number subfield, bigger is better)

4kCinematik@24 FPS      -1;1
4k@30                   -1;1
2,7k@30                 -1;1
1080p@30                -2;2
720p@30                 -2;1
JPG                     -1;2
DNG                     -1;3

This was far away from scientific and it is valid for MY Mavic but having seen quite some clips now i doubt that the variance is VERY big.

I wanted to imagine that 4k contains more Detail but it wasnt in the numbers.
I went into a little more (exhausting) Detail in my German post but thats way to much for this place, send me a PM if interested.
And remember this was done for MYSELF to judge what to do, your decision probably variees

Greetings,
Ender

P.S. Todo list: DNG profile (actually part of my current job is writing a DNG profiler) and ICC profiles for some standard lightings, dynamic range measurement JPG vs. DNG, Multiexposure effeciency, ISO noise profile, but at first: GETTING GOOD WEATHER TO FLY

So, is your conclusion that 4K gives no advantage over 2.7k?


Sent from my iPad using MavicPilots

 

[Ender]

yup, maybe even more drastic: as compression is easier on the data in 2,7k one could end up with a better clip using 2,7k.
That might change if DJI tunes its Bitrates or h.264 or even moves to h.265 which could open a new channel to 1080p60 (through 4k60) without artifacts.
But this is the current situation for me & my numbers.

Ender

 

[Ender]

P.S. does anyone know if there are Lens profiles for any of the well known DNG Processors ? Would be great as the Vignetting and color difference middle-to-corners is a bit too obvious at times...

 

[hifli]

yup, maybe even more drastic: as compression is easier on the data in 2,7k one could end up with a better clip using 2,7k.
That might change if DJI tunes its Bitrates or h.264 or even moves to h.265 which could open a new channel to 1080p60 (through 4k60) without artifacts.
But this is the current situation for me & my numbers.

Ender

This is one of the reasons why I like you German brothers, always very thorough and attention to details! Thanks for sharing this info, I'll be shooting 2.7k from now on. In regards to sharpness, contrast and color settings and profile - what do you conclude to be ze best settings?

Cheers mate!

Sent from my KING7 using MavicPilots mobile app

 

[Ender]

Hi !
Thanks, until now i am still good on thise settings, i mainly use "-2, 0, 0" and vary up to "-2,-1,-1" depending if i go for vid or photo.
A good "in between" is "-2, 0, -1" IMO.

Greetings,

"Ze" Ender

 

[sosmaverick]

Hi !
Thanks, until now i am still good on thise settings, i mainly use "-2, 0, 0" and vary up to "-2,-1,-1" depending if i go for vid or photo.
A good "in between" is "-2, 0, -1" IMO.

Greetings,

"Ze" Ender

Thanks for the info, helpful stuff.. I'll start shooting video in 2.7k and see how I get along. However if shooting DNG, surely changing the sharpening etc settings doesn't make a difference because you're shooting in RAW?




Sent from my iPhone using MavicPilots

 

[Ender]

Hi !
Yes, DNG remains rock solid no matter how you mess up the settings
Ender

 

[raybanner]

I still cant device between 2.7k and 4k. Is 2.7k better for the mavic? I read that it records 4k with 60mbits but 2.7k with only 45mbits.

We are travelling to asia and i want to stick to 1 resolution size for my editing later on. What would you recommend?
Btw, do you have a post in german about this?

 

[neo_xiii]

I still cant device between 2.7k and 4k. Is 2.7k better for the mavic? I read that it records 4k with 60mbits but 2.7k with only 45mbits.

We are travelling to asia and i want to stick to 1 resolution size for my editing later on. What would you recommend?
Btw, do you have a post in german about this?

Hey raybanner , glad to see you on this thread too!
I'm concerned about this 2,7k/4k compression topic... looking for which resolution is giving best results when downscaling to 1080p.
As I shoot in 2,7k with my Gopro 4 Silver, it would be easier for me to shoot in this same resolution with my Mavic, especially it compression is better.
I'm just wondering , as 4k is 60 Mbps and 2,7k is 45 Mbps... is it really better in 2,7k?
Not sure to have the time to test this by myself as I'm travelling to Asia too next week...
Thanks for your help guys!

 

[raybanner]

Let me tell you this. I did some tests again, especially at sunset with lower light.
I tried different settings. Settings that works best for me are: 2,7k with 30fps, more importantly +1 on sharpness in lower light to maintain the details (yes even on tree branches etc...) The compression is lower, even at 45mbps because you have more bits per pixel.

If you shoot lets say grass and some trees in 4k, you will see more of GOP compression, also called intra frame compression. You will notice something like flickering on those 4k pixels. This is also the case for 2,7k because of the codec, but it's less noticable. You can reduce that noisy flickering with a fantastic plugin called "Neat Video", but that costs 99$.

I see it this way: I desperately wanted to shoot 4k from the beginning because 4k is the hype currently. But for getting "cinematic" results, a lot of folks are reducing the sharpness in their settings, which causes water color issues on my side.
The thing is, when you shoot 2,7k on 0 or +1 sharpness, you basically get the effect of shooting 4k with -1 sharpness setting.

And for you neo_xiii, if you want to combine your GoPro footage which is already 2,7k and downsample to 1080p, don't hesitate and settle with 2,7k on your Mavic.

I'm not a pro regarding this topics, but I care for best quality and did some testings. Hope this gives you an idea about my thinking about this whole topic.

 

[neo_xiii]

Let me tell you this. I did some tests again, especially at sunset with lower light.
I tried different settings. Settings that works best for me are: 2,7k with 30fps, more importantly +1 on sharpness in lower light to maintain the details (yes even on tree branches etc...) The compression is lower, even at 45mbps because you have more bits per pixel.

If you shoot lets say grass and some trees in 4k, you will see more of GOP compression, also called intra frame compression. You will notice something like flickering on those 4k pixels. This is also the case for 2,7k because of the codec, but it's less noticable. You can reduce that noisy flickering with a fantastic plugin called "Neat Video", but that costs 99$.

I see it this way: I desperately wanted to shoot 4k from the beginning because 4k is the hype currently. But for getting "cinematic" results, a lot of folks are reducing the sharpness in their settings, which causes water color issues on my side.
The thing is, when you shoot 2,7k on 0 or +1 sharpness, you basically get the effect of shooting 4k with -1 sharpness setting.

And for you neo_xiii, if you want to combine your GoPro footage which is already 2,7k and downsample to 1080p, don't hesitate and settle with 2,7k on your Mavic.

I'm not a pro regarding this topics, but I care for best quality and did some testings. Hope this gives you an idea about my thinking about this whole topic.

Thanks a lot for your hints and experience , i'm gathering all I can as I'm quite busy and won't have enough time to do all the tests before traveling to Asia.
My idea was indeed to shoot in 2.7k to match the gopro footages , but i now have other technical issues with smooth transitions presets on Premiere CC (made by Chung dha, for those who know him)as they were made for 1080p footage. My sequence has to be in 1080p and the 2,7k downscaled has to fit perfectly the 1920x1080 sequence, otherwise these great transitions will not work perfectly. But that's another problem I guess.
Regarding the -1/0/+1 sharpness setting when shooting, and from my personal tests , I really can't see any difference between 2.7k and 4k. Same result for both resolution, and for any color profile too : mushy as soon as you go negative (even -1), ok at 0 and +1, depending on the lighting situation and complexity/details of the subject.
The only benefit of shooting 4k for me is that I can zoom/crop in easier than 2,7k, and I like to do a "dolly zoom effect" in post from time to time, which also needs the best resolution as you need to zoom significantly for doing this. I guess I can just switch to 4k when shooting a scene I intend to apply that effect on.

 

[raybanner]

See this video I made, which shows the compression of the codec the higher you go with the resolution and the more frames you have set. See the description in the video for more info.

 

[SteelFlyer]

P.S. does anyone know if there are Lens profiles for any of the well known DNG Processors ? Would be great as the Vignetting and color difference middle-to-corners is a bit too obvious at times...

Lightroom latest version now does have a lens profile for the Mavic.

 

[Rnl]

This is one of the reasons why I like you German brothers, always very thorough and attention to details! Thanks for sharing this info, I'll be shooting 2.7k from now on. In regards to sharpness, contrast and color settings and profile - what do you conclude to be ze best settings?

Cheers mate!

Sent from my KING7 using MavicPilots mobile app

2.7k -30 +1,0,0 works good for me

 

[Slayerstwin]

Thanks a lot for your hints and experience , i'm gathering all I can as I'm quite busy and won't have enough time to do all the tests before traveling to Asia.
My idea was indeed to shoot in 2.7k to match the gopro footages , but i now have other technical issues with smooth transitions presets on Premiere CC (made by Chung dha, for those who know him)as they were made for 1080p footage. My sequence has to be in 1080p and the 2,7k downscaled has to fit perfectly the 1920x1080 sequence, otherwise these great transitions will not work perfectly. But that's another problem I guess.
Regarding the -1/0/+1 sharpness setting when shooting, and from my personal tests , I really can't see any difference between 2.7k and 4k. Same result for both resolution, and for any color profile too : mushy as soon as you go negative (even -1), ok at 0 and +1, depending on the lighting situation and complexity/details of the subject.
The only benefit of shooting 4k for me is that I can zoom/crop in easier than 2,7k, and I like to do a "dolly zoom effect" in post from time to time, which also needs the best resolution as you need to zoom significantly for doing this. I guess I can just switch to 4k when shooting a scene I intend to apply that effect on.

You're putting a lot of faith in that cell phone camera they have on the Mavic

 

[Ender]

You're putting a lot of faith in that cell phone camera they have on the Mavic

Thats sums up a lot That said the camera is really great for its size but YEAH ;-)

 

[Slayerstwin]

Thats sums up a lot That said the camera is really great for its size but YEAH ;-)

Don't get me wrong I love the Mavic I own two of them but the reality is the camera is too **** small well the sensor anyway

 

[dronecrasher]

Hi !
Yes, DNG remains rock solid no matter how you mess up the settings
Ender

But if I shoot RAW and change d-log / normal / cinelike it does affect my raw image. you can tell by shooting a raw image and compare the settings. the normal setting will be more colorful

 

[Ender]

But if I shoot RAW and change d-log / normal / cinelike it does affect my raw image. you can tell by shooting a raw image and compare the settings. the normal setting will be more colorful

Hi,
thats not the case in older Firmwares.
IF it is the case in current FW DJI f*cked up badly.

Ender