Maximum Effort Avoidance of a Low-Flying Manned Aircraft

[AMann]

Really? You might want to watch some of the videos on youtube of pilots using CSC. It's not instantaneous and before that you're going to enter into the menu system and set the emergency stop option?

First off, I'm going to be paying attention, like @Rip said, situational awareness is key! I'm always scanning the sky and more importantly I'm listening for aircraft, most are very loud and can be heard from quite a distance! At the first inclination of an approaching aircraft I'm down on the left stick. I do this because while it might sound or look like an aircraft is down at or below you're 400' ceiling, most likely they are higher, part 61 pilots are taught that altitude is your friend and are not fond of being below 500' except when taking off or landing. Helicopters certainly do fly lower, but again, situational awareness. Are you in an area that helis frequent? Near a hospital, airport or anywhere there's a heli pad. If so, you might want to find a safer place to fly. If it is so apparent that I need to drop altitude to the point of needing the decent rate of CSC, then it might be better to ascend as quickly as possible. None the less, the last thing I want to do is relinquish control of the aircraft and then realize, oh $#!* I should have gone left, right or up and not have control!

The only situation I can think of where the scenario of a having to avoid a surprise low-flying aircraft while a pilot that thinks they have complete situational awareness would be if one is flying above a ridge or other obstruction where they can’t see or hear what is coming from the other side in their direction. We have an air tanker base in town and I never fly above the ridges when I can’t see what’s beyond them- those guys like to skim the nearby hills to practice (even hills further than 5 miles from their airbase) and you can’t even hear their approach when you are below the ridge tops.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

They don't, but they also have a legal minimum alt for a reason and if they go below it outside of an emergency they are consciously choosing to endanger themselves, potential presence of UAVs obviously not being the only reason. They're also more likely to encounter birds, have reduced time to respond to emergencies, less overall situational awareness,,...

Thats not our problem. As far as we are concerned, we just have to watch out for and avoid them regardless. Debating the legality of flights that should or should not be where they are, only serves as a distraction from our job as UA PIC's.

I think we all must agree that as UAV pilots, we must if possible avoid manned aircraft at all costs.
No one can say they can do this 100% in all situations, even if strictly following rules and regs that are in place.

Keeping below 400'AGL is part of that, staying within VLOS is another, situational awareness and constant attention is another.

We must all agree also that separation of 100' between manned aircraft and UAVs is a fairly easy, common sense way to mitigate the risks of collisions between the two to almost negligible odds.

We know airspace regs near airports, approach / departure paths, busy emergency areas like hospital heliports etc all SHOULD and do in most cases have more stringent NFZs, lower altitude restrictions etc for UAV ops.
It's also blatantly obvious that besides landing / take off, there are reasons for pilots to fly winged aircraft below 500' for special tasks, as a couple I mentioned in a previous post.
In the vast majority of flights, manned winged aircraft are going to want to stay at 500' or well above, as much as possible.

Helicopters are special type of aircraft though for sure, made to operate in lower altitudes for even more reasons than winged aircraft . . . besides similar reasons to fixed wing aircraft (ag work, sea plane and low flight tourism, fire fighting), they are used a lot more for tourist flights, powerline inspections, medical evacs, etc.

Thankfully the beat of a heli rotors is really (to me) a lot more easy to hear than a fixed wing small single engine, as quiet as some of those can be.

Anyway, thankfully the current rules don't leave the skies open to many problems, we all just have to be alert and this type of thread is good to get UAV pilots thinking about it more, to the point of having some sort of plan in mind and even practicing the faster way to descend etc.

 

[3rdof5]

I think we all must agree that as UAV pilots, we must if possible avoid manned aircraft at all costs.
No one can say they can do this 100% in all situations, even if strictly following rules and regs that are in place.

Keeping below 400'AGL is part of that, staying within VLOS is another, situational awareness and constant attention is another.

We must all agree also that separation of 100' between manned aircraft and UAVs is a fairly easy, common sense way to mitigate the risks of collisions between the two to almost negligible odds.

We know airspace regs near airports, approach / departure paths, busy emergency areas like hospital heliports etc all SHOULD and do in most cases have more stringent NFZs, lower altitude restrictions etc for UAV ops.
It's also blatantly obvious that besides landing / take off, there are reasons for pilots to fly winged aircraft below 500' for special tasks, as a couple I mentioned in a previous post.
In the vast majority of flights, manned winged aircraft are going to want to stay at 500' or well above, as much as possible.

Helicopters are special type of aircraft though for sure, made to operate in lower altitudes for even more reasons than winged aircraft . . . besides similar reasons to fixed wing aircraft (ag work, sea plane and low flight tourism, fire fighting), they are used a lot more for tourist flights, powerline inspections, medical evacs, etc.

Thankfully the beat of a heli rotors is really (to me) a lot more easy to hear than a fixed wing small single engine, as quiet as some of those can be.

Anyway, thankfully the current rules don't leave the skies open to many problems, we all just have to be alert and this type of thread is good to get UAV pilots thinking about it more, to the point of having some sort of plan in mind and even practicing the faster way to descend etc.

Hear Hear!
Well said.

 

[Phantomrain.org]

From a Legal Perspective and what I will state as a Panic move that most will fall directly into, me included would be to Descend as Quickly as possible as I do not ever see shutting down the motors as an option.
You dont want a falling drone that could kill someone anymore than you do crashing into a plane,

The Reason why I use the Legal Perspective is god for bid I was in court my defense would be that I immediately lowered the drone as fast as possible as the Logs will show , which beats me to trying to explain how I side stepped or out ran it.

Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly in the Rain. Land on the Water and be aware of Planes.

 

[Torque]

Do you think these small manned aircraft you see are flying below 500' ?
Do they seem to ever be as low as your drones max 400' AGL decree ?
And do you have any flight altitude restrictions (below 400') that are often in place if you are in any flight approach / departure areas ?

Most airports here (and I'm sure in most countries) have thought all this separation business out between manned aircraft and other UAV / model type craft.
Of course one always needs to be vigilant in any airspace, but normally below 500' seems very close to the ground for any manned flights, bar landing / ground ops like ag spraying, special tourism flights etc, and most pilots want to keep as high as practical for obvious reasons (mech failure reaction ability, bird strikes and the likes).

SeaTac airport's restricted air space starts about a mile north of me, and no restrictions from the small municipal airport just a few miles away below me in the valley.
The helicopters SEEM to be as low as 300 ft, and the small planes SEEM to be as low as 400' when they pass. In reality, they are probably both at 500 feet, but the feeling that they are "right overhead" is quite real. I keep my neighborhood flights limited to 300 ft max and don't fly from home very often, usually testing out a FW update or new equipment/accessory.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

The helicopters SEEM to be as low as 300 ft, and the small planes SEEM to be as low as 400' when they pass. In reality, they are probably both at 500 feet, but the feeling that they are "right overhead" is quite real.

Very true, it's really hard to estimate heights of low flying aircraft.
And, when you think about 400' and 500', 100' of separation is not really a lot !

I read that a near miss in the aviation industry is considered closer than 500', but I have also read that a near miss can be any circumstance in flight where the degree of separation between two aircraft is considered by either pilot to have constituted a hazardous situation involving potential risk of collision.

For larger aircraft 1000' would look pretty close, a lot at stake.

 

[WanderLost]

Even Manned aircraft pilots can't see everything. When I was training in the 70's my instructor called out another aircraft and as I scanned the sky he took control and abruptly changed course. He tore my shirt that day! It was a good day... Was there another aircraft? Or was he training me to be aware.? Not sure. Never saw another aircraft. And I don't remember asking him about this. I am sure the situation would be compounded with the small size of MOST drones. In the event of a manned aircraft needing to find a spot to land in an emergency, I doubt the pilot would be concerned with a drone, after all. Nonetheless I use Anti-Collision Lights day and night. But WE should be concerned. For Sure.

That said there are a lot of helicopters and low flying private aircraft (I have considered reporting) that "buzz" the mountain here on the coast. Air National Guard, Coast Guard, etc. usually stay over the ocean..

When I talk to the Coast Guard, They are usually looking for a lost or missing person and extend their search somewhat inland, just to be sure... But those are jet powered and audible... Most helicopters are audible even over the coast on most days.. We hear the thumping... The Private planes that are out on a joy ride are less dependable. Piss me off to be frank.

We have to be ready to "bug out" in any direction in the event... Not looking forward to it.

BTW: I almost always use a spotter for these kinds of situations. Really Helps.

I observed a hot dog pilot just after landing my Mavic 3 out in the sticks where I was surveying an abandoned quarry. He popped up over the overburden hill and then dove into the field where I was below tree tops to around 50'.

If I had still been in the air when he appeared, I would have just dove for the ground. I never would have expected him to fly below the trees. So it makes sense for me to assume any approaching aircraft may be manned (womaned) by a hot shot or a plane in distress so hitting the deck as fast as possible seems the only "instant" reaction I can achieve.

Out over the water, it's a lot easier to have situational awareness of the skies since you have a much better view of the surroundings.

 

[@Rip]

I observed a hot dog pilot just after landing my Mavic 3 out in the sticks where I was surveying an abandoned quarry. He popped up over the overburden hill and then dove into the field where I was below tree tops to around 50'.

If I had still been in the air when he appeared, I would have just dove for the ground. I never would have expected him to fly below the trees. So it makes sense for me to assume any approaching aircraft may be manned (womaned) by a hot shot or a plane in distress so hitting the deck as fast as possible seems the only "instant" reaction I can achieve.

Out over the water, it's a lot easier to have situational awareness of the skies since you have a much better view of the surroundings.

I see your point and agree. I do fly over water most of the time, but today I'll be dodging Starlings and Gulls. The subdivision I'll be flying in has gone out of their way to install 2 birdhouses on every lot!

 

[jhj93]

Entonces, ¿cuál es la mejor maniobra para evitar con el máximo esfuerzo una aeronave tripulada en vuelo bajo que aparece repentinamente cerca de nuestro dron y presenta un peligro de colisión claro y presente? Sorprendentemente, no recuerdo haber visto esto abordado específicamente en ningún video o publicación instructiva.

Estoy pensando que las maniobras para evitar colisiones son algo que debemos resolver antes de tener que ejecutarlas. Saber responder adecuadamente es fundamental. Y quitar incluso un segundo de nuestro tiempo de respuesta podría marcar la diferencia entre una colisión y un cuasi accidente.

Descartaré esto como punto de partida para la discusión, asumiendo que el avión tripulado está a la altitud del dron o por encima de ella.

Un movimiento inmediato del joystick izquierdo hacia atrás y el joystick derecho completamente en una dirección perpendicular a la trayectoria de vuelo del avión, junto con un cambio al modo deportivo.

Puede que valga la pena practicar para descubrir cómo ejecutar rápidamente los tres movimientos del controlador y desarrollar algo de destreza.

¿Comentarios?

live 10 kilometers from an airport on the side of the approach cone and since I have my drone, I have thought about this situation. All the comments are valid, but definitely the most reasonable thing is, as you indicate, to activate sport mode and immediately start a descent accompanied by a displacement or spiral maneuver (start practicing it in cine, normal and sport mode as you perfect the maneuver). In a spiral, you will always be able to see the obstacles in front and below your drone, unlike a lateral or backward displacement. The CSC configuration should not be done in flight, it is configured before starting the engines. And it should only be used as a last resort, since at such a low flight level it is unlikely that it can be recovered.

 

[MS Coast]

Post #49 via Google Translate.

I live 10KM from an airport on one side of the approach cone and since I got my drone I thought about just that situation. all comments are valid, but definitely the most reasonable is as you indicate, activate sport mode and start an immediate descent accompanied by a displacement or spiral maneuver (start practicing it in cinema, normal and sport mode as you perfect the maneuver). in a spiral you will always be able to see through the camera the obstacles in front and below your drone unlike a sideways or backward movement... the CSC configuration should not be done in flight, it is configured before starting engines... and It should only be used as a last resort, as at such a low level of flight it is unlikely that it can be recovered.

 

[-MavicMiniPilot]

I live in a neighborhood near KAFJ which is an uncontrolled little airport. Sometimes (mostly helicopters) go very low around the traffic pattern directly above where I fly. If I hear or see anything I just get as low as safely possible. I’ve never had an issue or any close calls with anyone.

 

[PatriciaRobert7]

So, what is the best maneuver for maximum-effort avoidance of a low-flying manned aircraft that appears suddenly near our drone and presents a clear and present collision hazard? Surprisingly I don't recall seeing this specifically addressed in any instructional videos or publications.

I'm thinking that collision avoidance maneuvers are something we need to sort out prior to needing to execute them. Knowing how to respond appropriately is essential. And removing even a second from our response time might make be the difference between a collision and a near miss.
testmyspeed omegle th belt
I'll toss this out as a starting point for discussion, with the assumption that the manned aircraft is at or above the drone's altitude.

An immediate movement of the left stick full back and the right stick fully in a direction perpendicular to the aircraft's flight path, along with a switch to sport mode.

It might be worth practicing to work out how to execute all three motions on the controller quickly and develop some dexterity.

Comments?

Strong decent, Sport Mode, I think are good thoughts... Which ever direction is required to get out of the flight path a.s.a.p. .. PRACTICE with multiple direction (avoidance) strategies.

 

[DARKSeifer]

Depends on the situation and what the plane/copter/other manned aircraft/other drone is doing.

Usually you want to be below the other aircraft altitude but sometimes is better to stay above. Planes usually fly high, copters are more unpredictable and tend to fly lower and breach into <120m airspace or land/takeoff from virtually anywhere.

For example, you are flying your drone, there's a road accident 300m away that you didn't notice, a medical heli appears from nowhere flying at 60 meters and is going to land in the middle of the road... then just stay at 60+ m and move away.

For the general plane flying at 150+ m on the other hand, you don't really have to do anything if you are flying at, for example, 60 meters.

For other drones flying around, I usually prefer to stay higher than them.