Mini 3 Pro beats Air2S in both photo and video

[karlblessing]

Is that the M3P? Does it do H265 @ 10 bit 125 mbps?
Or am I mis-reading you?

No that's the Air 2S, the Mini 3 Pro does not have 10-bit recording capabilities, and doesn't have a flat profile like HLG or DLOG (has cinelike-d which isn't really close especially being only 8-bit). But it does record at H264 and at the same 150Mbps bit rate, though H265 10-bit at 125Mbps has more data than that.

 

[Rilot]

So, it seems that the Air 2S and the Mini 3 Pro are pretty close in performance until you start grading, at which point the extra DR of 10-bit gives more flexibility.
All the previous talk of the Mini 3 Pro destroying the Air 2S in camera performance seems to have been a load of dingo's kidneys.

 

[z28lt1]

That's funny I was thinking the opposite. The M3P looks brighter and definitely gets more detail out of the image. I think it's a solid step ahead of the 2S in low light, but both look great overall. I'm sure the 2S has the edge in good light with a bit more DR with 10 bit.

This video is very impressive to me:

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The shopping center shots at the beginning (which is lit up like crazy) show what we've seen in the day light that the Mini 3 Pro can show more sharpness and detail. Once we drop to D-Cinelike in the shopping center things changes a bit, but when you look at really dark shots, the Air 2S definitely takes the lead and will allow you to get more out of it.

Check out the background here (clouds and the buildings in the background on the right side). Even in the foreground (look at the red "box" in the lower left, or the diagonal stripe in the parking spot the tanker is in) The Air 2S is allowing a lot more light in which probably lets you do more stuff in post. Again, the bright spots (like the lighted signs) are going to go to be sharper here on the Mini 3, but the darker areas not so much.

Night shots of things completely lit up don't really count as night shots in my mind (and the Mini 3 Pro seems to do really well here) I want to know if I'm taking a picture at sunset if I can keep some details of things in the foreground that aren't getting much natural light anymore.

First shot is Mini 3 Pro, Second is Air 2S.

 

[c64-dev]

Where is now test2000anafi, I wonder, to tell us how much the M3P destroys the Air2S?

 

[EpicFlight]

@test2000ana

Where is now test2000anafi, I wonder, to tell us how much the M3P destroys the Air2S?

He doesn't autofill when you start typing @test2000Anafi, which looks suspiciously like a suspension

Don't expect mods to comment, pretty private stuff.

But yes, I'd like to hear from him too.

 

[Paradigm]

The Air 2s is naturally going to be more stable than the Mini 3 Pro. It weighs more and is more dense. That's not to say the Mini 3 Pro would have an issue per se.

I don't see how the M3P will have a lower future operating cost. That seems negligible at best. In fact, the Air 2s has an established line of compatible accessories, whereas the 3 does not yet. And as for it falling out of the sky, the difference in weight isn't going to matter much.

There are some other factors to consider with the Air 2s that may justify the cost:

1. 5K video capability
2. Larger, 1" sensor which will likely have a low light advantage
3. Compatibility with DJI RC Pro (I just got one...it's a massive upgrade) and previous Smart Controller.

That's not to say it's worth it for everyone. As I posted earlier, if you want the best photo quality and demand better portability, and are more budget-conscious, the M3P might make sense. But if you're looking for the best all-around recreational/photography drone? I think the Air 2s makes a very solid case.

Sure, a heavier object handles the wind better. The M3P would have to compensate with motor power to overcome the nearly 100% weight difference between the 2. And the M3P does have a good amount more thrust than the A2S.

Lower operating cost in the sense that the batteries are cheaper and, going by previous examples, parts are cheaper for the M3P.

I will concede that the A2S has more aftermarket parts, but the M3P will catch up.

Do you think the RC Pro will not be compatible with M3P in the future?
What DJI did was basically take the A2S and cut it in half, weight wise, while delivering negligible difference for most people in video/picture quality. That's quite the accomplishment, and I'm sure the Air 3 will up the ante on the M3P and will be a clear winner above it.

As for each of them falling out of the sky and hitting me, one weighs twice as much. Guess which I'd want to land on my head. Or my car...

 

[Paradigm]

The shopping center shots at the beginning (which is lit up like crazy) show what we've seen in the day light that the Mini 3 Pro can show more sharpness and detail. Once we drop to D-Cinelike in the shopping center things changes a bit, but when you look at really dark shots, the Air 2S definitely takes the lead and will allow you to get more out of it.

Check out the background here (clouds and the buildings in the background on the right side). Even in the foreground (look at the red "box" in the lower left, or the diagonal stripe in the parking spot the tanker is in) The Air 2S is allowing a lot more light in which probably lets you do more stuff in post. Again, the bright spots (like the lighted signs) are going to go to be sharper here on the Mini 3, but the darker areas not so much.

Night shots of things completely lit up don't really count as night shots in my mind (and the Mini 3 Pro seems to do really well here) I want to know if I'm taking a picture at sunset if I can keep some details of things in the foreground that aren't getting much natural light anymore.

First shot is Mini 3 Pro, Second is Air 2S.

View attachment 148512View attachment 148513

Wow, wasn't expecting the M3P to be noticeably better.

 

[Meta4]

Sure, a heavier object handles the wind better.

Although this gets repeated a lot, it's simply not true.
The mass of the drone isn't what gives it the ability to deal with wind.
It's the speed of the drone that matters, a faster drone's speed is less affected by wind.

The M3P would have to compensate with motor power to overcome the nearly 100% weight difference between the 2. And the M3P does have a good amount more thrust than the A2S.

That's backwards ... the heavier drone would require more thrust than the lighter one.

 

[boldblue737]

Although this gets repeated a lot, it's simply not true.
The mass of the drone isn't what gives it the ability to deal with wind.
It's the speed of the drone that matters, a faster drone's speed is less affected by wind.

That's backwards ... the heavier drone would require more thrust than the lighter one.

You aren't wrong that the strength of the motors and ability of the drone to immediately react to unanticipated motion is important to a drone handling wind, but your claim that mass doesn’t matter for wind… well your physics class is calling you back for a word! Mass DOES matter. Immensely. In fact the Mini 3 Pro with the heavier battery performs significantly better staying stable in wind than with the lighter battery… why? Mass.

 

[Meta4]

but your claim that mass doesn’t matter for wind… well your physics class is calling you back for a word! Mass DOES matter. Immensely.
In fact the Mini 3 Pro with the heavier battery performs significantly better staying stable in wind than with the lighter battery… why? Mass.

No .. the mass of the drone doesn't make much difference at all.
This is because the speed that a drone is able to fly in still air (as in the specs) already has the mass factored in.
A drone with a top (still air) speed of 16 m/s will be less affected by wind than a drone with a top speed of 12 m/s.

 

[scro]

Where the confusion arises regarding mass and wind resistance is a heavier drone will typically appear more stable in wind compared to a lighter drone. If a light and the heavy drone have the same top speed they'll both be able to hold station against a wind just as well. If that wind is very smooth and steady then they'll also both sit fairly still in the air. If the wind is turbulent then the lighter drone will typically be more "twitchy" compared to the heavier drone as the lighter the mass the less force is required to accelerate it in any direction. Clever, fast reacting control systems can compensate somewhat for this, but DJI drones will use essentially the same control systems to stabilise the drone.

A large commercial passenger plane typically flies through the air fairly smoothly, whereas a small, light aircraft flying in the same conditions will tend to be more bouncy/twitchy. Assuming that both have the same max airspeed they will both will be able to make the same progress against a given headwind.

In short:

• Max airspeed is what dictates ability to fight against a wind, regardless of mass.
• Mass influences how stable the aircraft will be in that wind, regardless of whether it is making progress against the wind or is getting overwhelmed by it and blown away over the countryside.

 

[Meta4]

Where the confusion arises regarding mass and wind resistance is a heavier drone will typically appear more stable in wind compared to a lighter drone. If a light and the heavy drone have the same top speed they'll both be able to hold station against a wind just as well. If that wind is very smooth and steady then they'll also both sit fairly still in the air. If the wind is turbulent then the lighter drone will typically be more "twitchy" compared to the heavier drone as the lighter the mass the less force is required to accelerate it in any direction. Clever, fast reacting control systems can compensate somewhat for this, but DJI drones will use essentially the same control systems to stabilise the drone.

A large commercial passenger plane typically flies through the air fairly smoothly, whereas a small, light aircraft flying in the same conditions will tend to be more bouncy/twitchy. Assuming that both have the same max airspeed they will both will be able to make the same progress against a given headwind.

In short:

• Max airspeed is what dictates ability to fight against a wind, regardless of mass.
• Mass influences how stable the aircraft will be in that wind, regardless of whether it is making progress against the wind or is getting overwhelmed by it and blown away over the countryside.

That's exactly right.
The stability or twitchiness isn't much concern because the gimbal smooths things for camera work.
What matters is how well the drone is able to make headway against the wind - whether you get the drone back again.
And for that, the speed of the drone relative to that of the headwind is the only thing that matters.

 

[UAVquadman]

Where the confusion arises regarding mass and wind resistance is a heavier drone will typically appear more stable in wind compared to a lighter drone. If a light and the heavy drone have the same top speed they'll both be able to hold station against a wind just as well. If that wind is very smooth and steady then they'll also both sit fairly still in the air. If the wind is turbulent then the lighter drone will typically be more "twitchy" compared to the heavier drone as the lighter the mass the less force is required to accelerate it in any direction. Clever, fast reacting control systems can compensate somewhat for this, but DJI drones will use essentially the same control systems to stabilise the drone.

A large commercial passenger plane typically flies through the air fairly smoothly, whereas a small, light aircraft flying in the same conditions will tend to be more bouncy/twitchy. Assuming that both have the same max airspeed they will both will be able to make the same progress against a given headwind.

In short:

• Max airspeed is what dictates ability to fight against a wind, regardless of mass.
• Mass influences how stable the aircraft will be in that wind, regardless of whether it is making progress against the wind or is getting overwhelmed by it and blown away over the countryside.

I would rather fly my drone than figure out all of this! can't type anymore... going to fly my drone!

 

[Skyryder]

Wouldnt a drone that needs to compesate for more twiching in the wind draw more power? I heard some people are getting a lot of battery at maximum warnings on the Mini 3.

 

[scro]

Wouldnt a drone that needs to compesate for more twiching in the wind draw more power? I heard some people are getting a lot of battery at maximum warnings on the Mini 3.

Twitching in the wind would result in spiky power demand as the motors speeds fluctuate. Fighting a steady headwind would result in a smoother but equally high power draw. Either way, fighting against wind is going to stress the power supply.

 

[Meta4]

I heard some people are getting a lot of battery at maximum warnings on the Mini 3.

It's not so much a warning as a new notification that DJI have implemented.

 

[boldblue737]

my entire livelihood is flying large objects in the air, believe me mass matters. when wind velocity is strong near the ground (below 1000 ft) it by nature is gusty and variable so position keeping and stability are greatly aided by mass of the vehicle. if the wind were absolutely steady state we can talk about the strength of motors but when you see wind test videos of the Mini 3 Pro bobbing around on a gusty day to hover in place, that is where mass would be really useful. nothing I am saying here is to take away from what a great job DJI has done with both the hardware and software logic that allows such a light flying object to do such a reasonable job position keeping in heavy winds, its amazing technology... but just swap to the heavier battery on a windy day in the USA on the Mini 3 Pro and you'll IMMEDIATELY see a difference.

 

[boldblue737]

That's exactly right.
The stability or twitchiness isn't much concern because the gimbal smooths things for camera work.
What matters is how well the drone is able to make headway against the wind - whether you get the drone back again.
And for that, the speed of the drone relative to that of the headwind is the only thing that matters.

you were talking about how a drone "handles" the wind. getting the drone back against a headwind is a function of the top speed I 100% agree. However in strong gusty winds position keeping and stability are important to a stable image, in particular when the drone is close to the ground or an object. The gimbal can not smooth out everything in particular total realitive motion of the drone close to an object. check out any of the "high wind test" videos of the mini 3 pro and it bobs around non stop in gusts AND you can see it in the resulting video when it is flown close to the ground. it also makes hand catching or safely landing more difficult... the new design of the bottom of the mini 3 pro requires landing on exceptionally level and smooth surfaces to avoid a prop strike so I plan on hand catching nearly exclusively.

 

[MS Coast]

Although this gets repeated a lot, it's simply not true.
The mass of the drone isn't what gives it the ability to deal with wind.
It's the speed of the drone that matters, a faster drone's speed is less affected by wind.

That's backwards ... the heavier drone would require more thrust than the lighter one.

Yes. Basic physics gets a lot of abuse here.

And airspeed is the aircraft's speed through the air, whether the air is moving or not. An aircraft flying at 50 kts in still air has the same airspeed as one flying directly against a 50 kt wind and holding position over the ground.

Mass, via inertia, does affect the stability of an aircraft in a turbulent airstream, though. The heavier Air 2S can be expected to be a steadier photography platform than the Mini 3 Pro in similar conditions. I can offer no evidence that the effect is substantial enough to significantly effect photo and video quality.

 

[MS Coast]

my entire livelihood is flying large objects in the air, believe me mass matters. when wind velocity is strong near the ground (below 1000 ft) it by nature is gusty and variable so position keeping and stability are greatly aided by mass of the vehicle. if the wind were absolutely steady state we can talk about the strength of motors but when you see wind test videos of the Mini 3 Pro bobbing around on a gusty day to hover in place, that is where mass would be really useful. nothing I am saying here is to take away from what a great job DJI has done with both the hardware and software logic that allows such a light flying object to do such a reasonable job position keeping in heavy winds, its amazing technology... but just swap to the heavier battery on a windy day in the USA on the Mini 3 Pro and you'll IMMEDIATELY see a difference.

"but just swap to the heavier battery on a windy day in the USA on the Mini 3 Pro and you'll IMMEDIATELY see a difference."

Observed fact or conjecture?