Mini 3 Pro Flight During Dodgers Game TFR

[GadgetGuy]

Mini 3 Pro Flight During Dodgers Game TFR

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Mini 3 Pro drone was flown into the baseball stadium under full control, and then flew up and out, and away. My suspicion is that this Mini 3 Pro was flown with the new DJI RC bundle, where no cellular connection exists, and no wifi connection exists without hot spotting to a cell phone for maps and updates. Whether the pilot was merely ignorant of the TFR and the FAA VLOS requirements and not flying over people, or was deliberately taking advantage of a loophole in DJI's TFR updates is not clear.

My main question is what circumstances allowed this to take place. Unlike the seasonal games, the playoff game locations, dates, and times were unknown until the week before, and so harder to preprogram as NFZ's, unless the pilot updated the TFR's by an internet connection after the playoff games were known and the appropriate TFR's issued.

The second question is whether AeroScope is actively used at baseball and football games such as this. If so, the pilot should have been able to be immediately located and identified for potential prosecution. However, no news about that exists.

Thoughts and theories?

 

[karlblessing]

Already mentioned here, though the other guy of the pair was flying an Air 2S.

2 men facing Federal Charges for stadium flyover

You may remember the flyover during the NFL playoff game. The second one happened a few months after that during the baseball opening day. DOJ: Federal grand jury charges two men for allegedly flying drones over Bengals, Reds games

mavicpilots.com

Also given the guy uploaded videos titled f' the pigs, was being blatantly reckless. Also keep in mind that when you get a brand new DJI drone, you aren't forced to update to the latest firmware or the flysafe database, DJI mainly geofences restrictions known to them, but they are far from perfect nor up to date on current restrictions in place.

Also it's not on DJI really but completely the responsibility of the pilot, the flier of the Air 2S never registered his drone and he can be sentenced up to 3 years in prison if convicted for flying an unregistered drone.

The Aeroscope wouldn't locate the pilot, and currently even though the Mini 3 and Air 2S is approved for RemoteID use, none of them are active yet until DJI pushes a firmware to enable them which won't likely happen until after December (September 2023 at the latest when the rule goes into effect, December is when manufactures have to comply with building remote ID capable drones)).

 

[GadgetGuy]

Already mentioned here, though the other guy of the pair was flying an Air 2S.

2 men facing Federal Charges for stadium flyover

You may remember the flyover during the NFL playoff game. The second one happened a few months after that during the baseball opening day. DOJ: Federal grand jury charges two men for allegedly flying drones over Bengals, Reds games

mavicpilots.com

Also given the guy uploaded videos titled f' the pigs, was being blatantly reckless. Also keep in mind that when you get a brand new DJI drone, you aren't forced to update to the latest firmware or the flysafe database, DJI mainly geofences restrictions known to them, but they are far from perfect nor up to date on current restrictions in place.

Also it's not on DJI really but completely the responsibility of the pilot, the flier of the Air 2S never registered his drone and he can be sentenced up to 3 years in prison if convicted for flying an unregistered drone.

The Aeroscope wouldn't locate the pilot, and currently even though the Mini 3 and Air 2S is approved for RemoteID use, none of them are active yet until DJI pushes a firmware to enable them which won't likely happen until after December (September 2023 at the latest when the rule goes into effect, December is when manufactures have to comply with building remote ID capable drones)).

Actually, this thread is about an entirely different incident with a Mini 3 Pro (which requires no pilot registration) over Petco Park, during a baseball playoff game between the Los Angeles Dodgers and the San Diego Padres, which occurred just this last week, and not in January over a football game with an Air 2S, which does require pilot registration.

The FlySafe database does not have to be updated by the pilot to reflect TFR's. Any internet connection with the Fly app will also update any known TFR's. Aeroscope is also fully capable of locating the pilot, but only if it is in use.

 

[karlblessing]

Actually, this thread is about an entirely different incident with a Mini 3 Pro (which requires no pilot registration) over Petco Park, during a baseball playoff game between the Los Angeles Dodgers and the San Diego Padres, which occurred just this last week, and not in January over a football game with an Air 2S, which does require pilot registration.

The FlySafe database does not have to be updated by the pilot to reflect TFR's. Any internet connection with the Fly app will also update any known TFR's. Aeroscope is also fully capable of locating the pilot, but only if it is in use.

Regarding "which requires no pilot registration", that's actually irrelevant. The moment you start acting in a manner not covered under recreational flight guidelines, you are then being classified under Part 107, which does require that the drone regardless of weight class is registered, which then would also add on possible charges such as operating without a part 107 certificate (and it just snowballs down from there).

 

[GadgetGuy]

Regarding "which requires no pilot registration", that's actually irrelevant. The moment you start acting in a manner not covered under recreational flight guidelines, you are then being classified under Part 107, which does require that the drone regardless of weight class is registered, which then would also add on possible charges such as operating without a part 107 certificate (and it just snowballs down from there).

I'm not doing anything. The Mini 3 Pro is under 250g, and does not, in and of itself, require the pilot to register, unlike the Air 2S incident, that you were wrongly conflating with this newest incident.

You are derailing this thread. It isn't about pilot registration or FlySafe updates. It is about how TFR's are promulgated by DJI, and whether AeroScope is used at stadiums.

 

[Repaid1]

The Aeroscope wouldn't locate the pilot, and currently even though the Mini 3 and Air 2S is approved for RemoteID use, none of them are active yet until DJI pushes a firmware to enable them which won't likely happen until after December (September 2023 at the latest when the rule goes into effect, December is when manufactures have to comply with building remote ID capable drones)).

Actually Aeroscope system will work back to at least the old Phantom 3/Inspire 1. It works on a system that has been built into DJI since at least then, long before any of the Remote ID crap. It's method of working is somewhat masked as to how it determines pilot location. Some say that it detects the area ruffly when the aircraft is launched/armed and sets homepoint. This information is inflight updated as the flightpath is flown as shown on the Map display and then transmitted out to the Aeroscope system. Whether It detects both aircraft and possible transmitter location using the device (Phone/tablet) GPS as a reference is debateable as probably only DJI knows.

Aeroscope can detect "any" DJI aircraft from the old LightBridge protocols to the newest Ocusync 3.0 and I wouldn't doubt Ole' DJI added in the WiFi protocols used by a few DJI a'la Phantom 3 standard and a few others.

One thing for sure as these units are not cheap. They have been reported way back when only used at the largest airports and high security areas. I do not doubt that MLB and NFL have the money to obtain them, but with a very select few of idiots pilots I would wonder if they would even bother.

 

[Aerophile]

I'm convinced we are only hearing about a tiny fraction of drone-over-stadium TFR violations. A couple weekends ago, where I live, there were game stoppages (and lots of local press coverage) of two separate drone incursions over football games (one was an NFL game, the other at a major Pac 10 university football game; both had TFRs). In both cases a drone was spotted inside the stadium, flying/hovering over players on the field and people attending the game in the stadium seats. Play was stopped for 5-10 minutes each time. Both events were nationally televised (do you know how much a minute of "TV time" costs at an NFL or major college football game?). Two different games across two days in one city. But it didn't seem to appear in "the drone press" (I saw no mention of these incidents here or anywhere else except in local news coverage, and this is a pretty active forum).

I suspect this is happening at most major sports events that have TFRs (dozens every day?). We (you) are just not hearing about it except in rare cases.

It is a growing trend and this is not going to be good for us.

 

[JonathanP]

People doing stupid crap like this will cause the entire hobby and industry to get regulated into the ground. This will be why we can't have nice things

 

[GadgetGuy]

People doing stupid crap like this will cause the entire hobby and industry to get regulated into the ground. This will be why we can't have nice things

I think it might even have led to the latest FW update yesterday, which irreversibly immediately installs Remote ID onto every Mini 3 Pro, even if the drone is only used with the stock battery, which technically makes it exempt from Remote ID, since it is under 250g!

This was really bad PR for DJI, as everyone watching the national prime time telecast clearly saw the make and model of the DJI Mini 3 Pro written on the drone, as the television camera zoomed in on it!

 

[karlblessing]

I think it might even have led to the latest FW update yesterday, which irreversibly immediately installs Remote ID onto every Mini 3 Pro, even if the drone is only used with the stock battery, which technically makes it exempt from Remote ID, since it is under 250g!

This was really bad PR for DJI, as everyone watching the national prime time telecast clearly saw the make and model of the DJI Mini 3 Pro written on the drone, as the television camera zoomed in on it!

DJI has to do that, the Mini 3 Pro is on the list of models they said would be capable. At least that way a part 107 operator could still have that enabled for those tasks.

PS: Did they revise the rule to exempt RemoteID for sub-250g drones? If so does that mean sub-250g can fly in the same capacity as limited RID drones (ie: can fly nearly anywhere but maintain VLOS like we already do).

 

[GadgetGuy]

DJI has to do that, the Mini 3 Pro is on the list of models they said would be capable. At least that way a part 107 operator could still have that enabled for those tasks.

PS: Did they revise the rule to exempt RemoteID for sub-250g drones? If so does that mean sub-250g can fly in the same capacity as limited RID drones (ie: can fly nearly anywhere but maintain VLOS like we already do).

This was on DoneDJ in July.
"The FAA's Remote ID rule will apply to all drone operators in the US, with the following exemptions: You fly a drone that weighs less than 250g, such as the DJI Mini 3, and you fly it only for recreation purposes. You fly a drone at an FAA-Recognized Identification Area (FRIA)."

FAA's Remote ID rule for drones is constitutional, DC court rules

A US Appeals Court on Friday affirmed the FAA's Remote ID rules for drones, stating it "violates no reasonable expectation of privacy."

dronedj.com

However, since it has now been implemented on the Mini 3 Pro, regardless of how it is flown, it is still broadcasting Remote ID when flying recreationally, so no way to prevent it, unless you never update to the latest FW update, also losing out on its other feature enhancements.

Still can't legally fly anywhere. Just don't need to register. All other restrictions still apply. Still trackable by Aeroscope.

 

[karlblessing]

Ahh so you're still stuck in FRIA space just don't have to register.

 

[mobilehomer]

ALL drones used for Part 107 operations must broadcast RID. This has been from the beginning and has zero to do with a baseball game. From the Air 2S forward all DJI drones are RID compliant. Previous drones will need the add-on transmitter. Here is the latest compliance list - UAS Declaration of Compliance

 

[GadgetGuy]

ALL drones used for Part 107 operations must broadcast RID. This has been from the beginning and has zero to do with a baseball game. From the Air 2S forward all DJI drones are RID compliant. Previous drones will need the add-on transmitter. Here is the latest compliance list - UAS Declaration of Compliance

We are discussing recreational flights, not Part 107 operations. The registration free, sub-250g Mini 3 Pro used to fly into the baseball game did not require Remote ID, but DJI just forced it upon it anyway. Yes, the misuse at the baseball game certainly was factor! The drone was not used for a Part 107 operation.

 

[karlblessing]

We are discussing recreational flights, not Part 107 operations. The registration free, sub-250g Mini 3 Pro used to fly into the baseball game did not require Remote ID, but DJI just forced it upon it anyway. Yes, the misuse at the baseball game certainly was factor! The drone was not used for a Part 107 operation.

But on the flip side, it does mean that the Mini 3 Pro is elgible to be used for 107 ops if a 107 certified pilot wants to use a Mini 3 Pro without any additional hassle or expense. Also I'm wondering if the wording of the FAA rule didn't specify weight when it came to manufacturing/production.

 

[Robert Prior]

But on the flip side, it does mean that the Mini 3 Pro is elgible to be used for 107 ops if a 107 certified pilot wants to use a Mini 3 Pro without any additional hassle or expense. Also I'm wondering if the wording of the FAA rule didn't specify weight when it came to manufacturing/production.

Part of the problem with the Mini 3 is that it can be under or over 250 g, depending on the battery (not counting any extra accessories). If 250 g is a legal bright line that can be crossed simply by changing the battery, I can see the manufacturer opting for the (legally) safe approach of assuming use of a plus battery in complying with any regulations.

(Assuming the drone knows which battery it has installed, code could easily adjust its behaviour accordingly, but at the risk of a bug leading to non-compliance. Safer to have a behaviour 'always on'.)

 

[LoudThunder]

It is about how TFR's are promulgated by DJI,

I did not know that DJI tried to update and distribute TFRs. They are so transitory that DJI could never keep current. I just checked the FlySafe map for Washington DC and there are two TFRs for football games posted in SkyVector, but none in FlySafe. I also check my home turf and there is a TFR posted for a football game in Norfolk, VA; but again, nothing in FlySafe.

 

[LoudThunder]

ALL drones used for Part 107 operations must broadcast RID.

Not Yet!!!

All drone pilots required to register their UAS must operate their aircraft in accordance with the final rule on remote ID beginning September 16, 2023, which gives drone owners sufficient time to upgrade their aircraft.

Reference:...

UAS Remote Identification | Federal Aviation Administration

Drones or unmanned aircraft systems (UAS) are fundamentally changing aviation, and the FAA is committed to working to fully integrate drones into the National Airspace System (NAS). Safety and security are top priorities for the FAA and remote identification (remote ID) of drones is crucial to...

www.faa.gov

 

[mobilehomer]

We are discussing recreational flights, not Part 107 operations. The registration free, sub-250g Mini 3 Pro used to fly into the baseball game did not require Remote ID, but DJI just forced it upon it anyway. Yes, the misuse at the baseball game certainly was factor! The drone was not used for a Part 107 operation.

No, we are discussing RID. ALL newly manufactured drones have RID.
Loudthunder, I just left out the date. Yes, at this time, none are broadcasting in the U.S. that I know of.

 

[LoudThunder]

ALL newly manufactured drones have RID.

I do not know that "ALL newly manufactured drones have RID." I would image that is true in most cases for higher end drones (Excess of $200???). But what about all those low end toy drones that are so large that they weigh more than the under 250 gram limit and are therefore required to be register?

Here is another reference concerning the Requirements for Remote Identification for Drone Pilots

Remote Identification for Drone Pilots | Federal Aviation Administration

UAS Remote ID Drones or unmanned aircraft systems (UAS) are fundamentally changing aviation, and the FAA is committed to working to fully integrate drones into the National Airspace System (NAS). Safety and security are top priorities for the FAA and remote identification (remote ID) of drones...

www.faa.gov

I do not know if once the RID is required if the drones (specifically DJI) will fly if you do not input the information, specifically the Drone's ID, or the alterative, a session ID.

If you choose to use an add-on broadcast module in lieu of the built-in capability of the drone, I do not know if the internal firmware can be disabled.

Of course, an add-on broadcast module incurs additional cost, but the advantage of using this is that it only transmits the original launch location and if you walk off, that information is not updated. If you are using the internal Drone's RID, the controller's location (your location…) is constantly updated…

So, if Kevin or Karen are tracking your drone and using the telemetry to locate you, the Add-on unit only provides the original location, but the drone's built-in telemetry is current right up to them seeing and assaulting you…