My View of the Competition

[AIredale1]

Currently DJI has a stranglehold on the drone market. They control roughly 80% of the market. They didn't get there by not knowing what consumers want.
They were poised to release the MP3 prior to the MA2 but along came the Evo 2 with a 6k & 8k version. That got DJI's attention; not so much for the 6k & 8k capabilities but more so for the 40 minute flight time.
DJI in its wisdom saw the 40 minute flight time and knew they would have to match or surpass it. So, they've taken the MP3 back to the drawing board to address that feature.
I can tell you that they do NOT see the 8k or even 6k as something they need to match at this time. They currently view 6k & 8k as overkill for a prosumer drone.
DJI has wisely decided to take a step back and see how the market reacts to 6k & 8k in terms of sales.
I'm a professional photographer and I have neither the need nor the desire to purchase an 8k or even 6k drone; which for myself is a purchase that would necessitate an additional purchase of a much faster computer for processing, not to mention an 8k or 6k capable monitor to view it on.
Although I applaud Autel for their innovation for a number of reasons; not the least of which is providing DJI with the motivation to raise the bar (competition is good for we consumers) but if I had a say with the marketing folks at Autel I would have been a loud voice against 8k or even 6k at this time.
Anyways, just my opinion.

 

[Fishman Dan]

I agree ... and tbh in the region I work in, 4k isn't even a requirement. As long as you can turn up on site with enough battery life to capture your footage safely.

 

[Johnmcl7]

There is no evidence whatsoever that DJI have 'taken the MP3 back to the drawing board', the rumour that claimed there was going to be a January announcement had no factual basis whatsoever and the claim DJI scrapped it all at the last moment is just to cover the fact up that people were making up the rumours and got it completely wrong. Just look at the Mavic Air 2 in a similar time frame to see how different it is as we had evidence of regulatory filings and then leaked shots none of which we had in the same time for the supposed Mavic 3 Pro release. It's a frustration of mine that these made up rumours get treated as fact.

That said personally I agree with you about video and a lot of the time I still use 1080p for my video output as I find it's a lot more convenient for size and what it plays on while still looking great. It's obviously a different case with much higher quality equipment where the IQ differences are more pronounced but even on my dedicated video FF systems I certainly haven't wanted more than 4K.

I can see why companies are promoting 6K and 8K because it looks good the same as offering pointlessly high megapixel sensors and especially important for a company trying to take on DJI's dominant market position. However I just can't see how this is going to work in practice with monstrously large 6K and 8K files that are difficult to edit and render with very little to play it back on. The cynical side of me wonders will they offer 6K and 8K in pointlessly low bitrate versions so they can both advertise they have such capability and people can still use it?

 

[jagraphics]

I can tell you that they do NOT see the 8k or even 6k as something they need to match at this time. They currently view 6k & 8k as overkill for a prosumer drone.

We do ENG, (news) and corporate video. We are not drone people so much as we got an additional camera that does not need a tripod.
From what I am seeing on the professional video/film makers forums a lot (most?) now have 4K capable cameras BUT the vast majority of the work is done in 1080p. The advantage of a 4K drone is that you can zoom in post if the framing is not quite right. That said it is a flimsy reason. It fact unless shooting for Netflix ( or major Holly/Bollywood studio) most work is done in HD not 4K. There are some clients who want (but don't actually need) 4K because they have heard the buzzword.

A 6k or 8K drone for the prosumer market is pointless. Anyone working at that level is going to hire a drone that will carry a "proper" camera and appropriate lens. the 8K on it's own is no use without the right glass. Can you put an anamorphic lens on a Mavic? ;-)

 

[Deleted member 114292]

We do ENG, (news) and corporate video. We are not drone people so much as we got an additional camera that does not need a tripod.
From what I am seeing on the professional video/film makers forums a lot (most?) now have 4K capable cameras BUT the vast majority of the work is done in 1080p. The advantage of a 4K drone is that you can zoom in post if the framing is not quite right. That said it is a flimsy reason. It fact unless shooting for Netflix ( or major Holly/Bollywood studio) most work is done in HD not 4K. There are some clients who want (but don't actually need) 4K because they have heard the buzzword.

A 6k or 8K drone for the prosumer market is pointless. Anyone working at that level is going to hire a drone that will carry a "proper" camera and appropriate lens. the 8K on it's own is no use without the right glass. Can you put an anamorphic lens on a Mavic? ;-)

Yes.

Moment - Mavic 2 Pro Drone Anamorphic Lens

Juicy flares, true black bars, and that cinematic look. We have brought Anamorphic to the drone world and drone footage will never be the same. Available now.

www.shopmoment.com

 

[jagraphics]

Yes.

Moment - Mavic 2 Pro Drone Anamorphic Lens

Juicy flares, true black bars, and that cinematic look. We have brought Anamorphic to the drone world and drone footage will never be the same. Available now.

www.shopmoment.com

Should have known!!!
However those shooting 6Kand 8K will be using cameras like Arrri's, Reds, Ursa's etc and will want a drone that can lift them safely.
eg this sort of thing Portal | theblackdrone GmbH - Professionelle Luftaufnahmen mit RED Epic und ARRI Alexa Mini. They are not likely to want a mavic.

Also editing and delivering 6K and 8K is even more of a pain than 4K and out side cinema's there is no market for 4K never mind 8K.
Most internet stuff is 1080 because the infrastructure is not there to deliver 4K to everyone yet never mind 8K. This comes up on film makers forums that the client's internet does not have the capacity to review the 4K video during rough cuts and editing.

Also some years ago Sony R&D did a very good technical paper on 4k and came to the conclusion that on phones, tablets, computers and small TV's (under 70 inch) 4K was no improvement over 1080p. It did make a differnce to the first 10 or so rows in a full screen cinema. but that was it. However due to consumer demand Sony went on to make 4K TV's and cameras
EDIT They will also be making 8K TV's and then 8K video cameras. (you need to get the TV's put their first)

What is more use is dynamic range and things like that.

just found this which may be of interest on 4-> 8k
8K Cameras Are Coming. But Don't Fall For The Hype. | Digital Trends
EDIT note the time lines. It took 7 years for 4K TV's to become the norm. They estimate another 5 before 8K are the norm. People keep TV's a decade most don't change them every 3-5 years. The internet still can't handle 4K for even half the users..... 8K is a LONG way off.

 

[Deleted member 114292]

Should have known!!!
However those shooting 6Kand 8K will be using cameras like Arrri's, Reds, Ursa's etc and will want a drone that can lift them safely.
eg this sort of thing Portal | theblackdrone GmbH - Professionelle Luftaufnahmen mit RED Epic und ARRI Alexa Mini. They are not likely to want a mavic.

Also editing and delivering 6K and 8K is even more of a pain than 4K and out side cinema's there is no market for 4K never mind 8K.
Most internet stuff is 1080 because the infrastructure is not there to deliver 4K to everyone yet never mind 8K. This comes up on film makers forums that the client's internet does not have the capacity to review the 4K video during rough cuts and editing.

Also some years ago Sony r&D did a very good technical paper on 4k and came to the conclusion that on phones, tablets, computers and small (under 70 inch) 4K was no improvement over 1080. It did make a differnce to the first 10 or so rows in a full screen cinema. but that was it. However due to consumer demand Sony went on to make 4K TV's and cameras
What is more use is dynamic range and things like that.

Agreed.

 

[jagraphics]

On this video 8K Cameras Are Coming. But Don't Fall For The Hype. | Digital Trends

Note the time lines. It took 7 years for 4K TV's to become the norm. They estimate another 5 before 8K are the norm. That is all TV's being sold are 8K will not happen untill 2025 ish. However people keep TV's a decade (?) most don't change them every 3-5 years. The internet still can't handle 4K for even half the users..... 8K is a LONG way off.

There is a reason why Netflix want's 4K. If you look at some of the old B&W and early colour films on a modern HD TV you will see that some are suddenly looking a LOT better than they ever did. However later programs from the 70's 80's and 90's still look appalling. I found a YouTube video discussing this and I will see if I can find it and add the link.

The point is the old films when digitized were usually done to the NTSC format of 480 lines as it was the lowest common denominator. (PAL is 625) Recently many of these films have been re-scanned with modern equipment at 1080 or 4K which at least doubles the resolution compared to previously. Therefore they are now broadcast at 720 or 1080 and look almost as good as they did when first shown on a good projector in a good cinema.

The video from the 70's to 90's was shot for 480 NTSC or 625 PAL there is nothing to re-scan as such. That is as good as it gets!

As Sony R&D realized 4K is all you need for cinema as 1080 is all that is needed for less than 70 inch screens. After that it is dynamic range, frame rate etc etc) Netflix (and others) are asking for 4K so it future proofs them. Unless humans drastically evolve and change their eyesight no one is going to need 8K.

 

[FoxhallGH]

While there is a lot of scope for changes in the camera systems on drones, I think that the main reason DJI has 'slowed down' a bit, is due to there needing to be a bit of clarity regarding the need for drone ID systems. The fact that they are about to release the Mavic 2 in versions with and without ADS-B shows that. If 3rd party app's on mobile phones were all that was required, we would not see the ADS-B version - and vice versa. As soon as the International authorities get some consensus on how UAV's are going to broadcast their location in the sub-400 ft zone, I think you'll see quite an explosion of drones - especially those designed for commercial tasks.

 

[jagraphics]

The other reason is "every" country is in the middle of changing their Drone Rules and may require Drones to transmit an ID, position etc etc So I suspect there is some stalling by DJI whilst they change the design so they can meet all these new requirements. Or at least do firmware upgrades to do it as long as the hardware supports it. Which, thanks to CORVID-19 has not been on the top of anyone's countries ToDo list for the last few months. Therefore DJI may not have a clear idea of requirements for this.