Newbie question on E series airspace

[sdold]

I didn't mention Kendras by name because I thought the post had been deleted and I wasn't sure why, but I see it's back, so thank you Kendras! Tomc, to me it's like trying to understand the building codes. By the way you might want to edit your post, it looks like there is a misplaced quote tag.

 

[dawgpilot]

It's my understanding that it's ok to fly in the Class-E surface extensions without authorization, just not in the primary circle (the part that is "designated for an airport").

That seems to be the case for Part 107 pilots, but I'm not sure that's true for recreational pilots (who are required to stay out of all forms of controlled airspace unless authorized.)

 

[tomc5179]

That seems to be the case for Part 107 pilots, but I'm not sure that's true for recreational pilots (who are required to stay out of all forms of controlled airspace unless authorized.)

This is what I'm going with as a recreational pilot. I'm avoiding anything with a dotted line.

 

[kadras]

I didn't mention Kendras by name because I thought the post had been deleted and I wasn't sure why, but I see it's back, so thank you Kendras! Tomc, to me it's like trying to understand the building codes. By the way you might want to edit your post, it looks like there is a misplaced quote tag.

I noticed that the post had disappeared at one time, also. I made an edit after the original post so that must have caused the temporary disappearance.
Kadras

 

[jwblair]

View attachment 75012

See that blue dashed line surrounding Salina airport? That’s class D from the surface up to 3800’ AGL, stay away from that. The Outer magenta shaded line is Class E starting at 700’ AGL, and there’s Class G below most of it except in the southwest quadrant where the blue hatched border is a restricted area due to the ICBM bunker

I’d be extra careful anywhere around your area near the agricultural fields during crop dusting time! Call those private fields near you (Silers and Tamarack on the map) in case they’re flying out from there. You can get their contact info here by searching for (Tamarack, KS), etc.

AirNav: Airport Information

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It's actually WAY more confusing than that. The new US law states:

(5) In Class B, Class C, or Class D airspace or within
the lateral boundaries of the surface area of Class E airspace
designated for an airport, the operator obtains prior authorization
from the Administrator or designee before operating and
complies with all airspace restrictions and prohibitions.

It's apparent that the transition Class E airspace around SLN is there for support of airport IFR operations so I assume that means that it's "designated for an airport" and thus requiring prior authorization "within the lateral boundaries of the surface area of Class E airspace" (shaded blue or magenta circle) which I read to mean from the surface on up even though it's Class G below 1200' or 700' AGL.

On the other hand, "designated for an airport" could refer to the fact that Class C and D airspace reverts to Class E airspace when the tower is closed. If that's the case then prior authorization is required within the dashed blue line regardless of whether the tower is in operation or not.

I would assume it's the first case but "designated for an airport" needs to be clarified by the FAA.

Also note that any non-tower airport that has a published instrument approach has Class E airspace extending to the surface within 5 statute miles of the airport (dashed magenta circle on chart). A non-tower airport in Class G airspace without a published instrument approach is Class G airspace below 700' AGL.

 

[AMann]

It's actually WAY more confusing than that. The new US law states:

(5) In Class B, Class C, or Class D airspace or within
the lateral boundaries of the surface area of Class E airspace
designated for an airport, the operator obtains prior authorization
from the Administrator or designee before operating and
complies with all airspace restrictions and prohibitions.

It's apparent that the transition Class E airspace around SLN is there for support of airport IFR operations so I assume that means that it's "designated for an airport" and thus requiring prior authorization "within the lateral boundaries of the surface area of Class E airspace" which I read to mean from the surface on up even though it's Class G below 700' AGL.

On the other hand, "designated for an airport" could refer to the fact that Class C and D airspace reverts to Class E airspace when the tower is closed. If that's the case then prior authorization is required within the dashed blue line regardless of whether the tower is in operation or not.

I would assume it's the first case but "designated for an airport" needs to be clarified by the FAA.

Also note that any non-tower airport that has a published instrument approach has Class E airspace extending to the surface within 5 statute miles of the airport (dashed magenta circle on chart). A non-tower airport without a published instrument approach is Class G airspace below 700' AGL.

You make a good point, several of us here read “lateral boundaries of the surface area...” as meaning controlled airspace at surface level, not that starting above the surface. Someone representing us should ask the FAA for clarification.

 

[sdold]

Not to be nit picky, but as long as we're talking about it:

On the other hand, "designated for an airport" could refer to the fact that Class C and D airspace reverts to Class E airspace when the tower is closed.

The chart supplement (formerly Airport/Facility directory) says what the airspace reverts to when the tower closes. Most revert to Class E, some to Class G (Santa Maria CA for example).

Also note that any non-tower airport that has a published instrument approach has Class E airspace extending to the surface within 5 statute miles of the airport (dashed magenta circle on chart). A non-tower airport in Class G airspace without a published instrument approach is Class G airspace below 700' AGL.

There are a lot of airports with published approaches in class G, typically those with non-precision approaches and no weather reporting. For example my home airport KEDU has two published non-precision approaches, but no surface Class-E.

And there are plenty of Class-G non-tower airports that are not under 700' AGL transitions. I think most airports are under the 1200' (blue) areas.

 

[modbuilder]

Try this link ... ArcGIS Web Application
Just another great resource to know where the restrictions are and max altitude if below 400' AGL restrictions.

+1 on the link. Super slick way to know if you're OK to fly or need airspace authorization.

 

[dwolfe002]

I have lots of questions. I want to fly in an area that is at the end of the blue bowtie, on DJI's geofencing, 4 1/2 miles from a local airport. First of all, the airport is Michael J. Smith Airfield in Beaufort, NC. I looked on the ArcGIS maps and it doesn't show any squares indicating altitude restrictions around the airport. It's a small airport so that may be the reason. I thought LAANC was supposed to cover all commercial airports. Now the airspace class is E3, per ArcGIS, but under name it says Beaufort Class E5. So does that make it E5 airspace and if so, can I fly up to 400 ft. in that area without notification because the lower limit is 700 ft. Now, let's go back to DJI. I haven't seen them mentioned much. They will not allow me to take off because I'm in a NFZ so I have to go through that processes to allow my Mavic to take off, which is a pain because I don't have internet capability at that site.
Questions:
1) Why no markers in ArcGIS to indicate LAANC operations? I did see 2 Marine Corps Ospreys take off from that airport last week, so it's not a farmers field.
2) Does anybody think, know, if DJI is going to rework their Geofencing or go directly to LAANC for flight verification? The end of that bowtie is not my friend.
3) Where has all this technology put ME because of no LAANC indications at the airport?



Class E3 Airspace

Identifier
Name	BEAUFORT CLASS E5
Description of the Upper Limit Value	AA
Upper Limit Value	-9998
Upper Limit Unit of Measure
Code for the Upper Limit
Description of the Lower Limit Value
Lower Limit Value	700
Lower Limit Unit of Measure	FT
Code for the Lower Limit	SFC

From <https://faa.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=9c2e4406710048e19806ebf6a06754ad>


E5-Class E Airspace Areas Extending Upward From 700 Feet Or More Above The Surface Of The Earth

 

[kadras]

I have lots of questions. I want to fly in an area that is at the end of the blue bowtie, on DJI's geofencing, 4 1/2 miles from a local airport. First of all, the airport is Michael J. Smith Airfield in Beaufort, NC. I looked on the ArcGIS maps and it doesn't show any squares indicating altitude restrictions around the airport. It's a small airport so that may be the reason. I thought LAANC was supposed to cover all commercial airports. Now the airspace class is E3, per ArcGIS, but under name it says Beaufort Class E5. So does that make it E5 airspace and if so, can I fly up to 400 ft. in that area without notification because the lower limit is 700 ft. Now, let's go back to DJI. I haven't seen them mentioned much. They will not allow me to take off because I'm in a NFZ so I have to go through that processes to allow my Mavic to take off, which is a pain because I don't have internet capability at that site.
Questions:
1) Why no markers in ArcGIS to indicate LAANC operations? I did see 2 Marine Corps Ospreys take off from that airport last week, so it's not a farmers field.
2) Does anybody think, know, if DJI is going to rework their Geofencing or go directly to LAANC for flight verification? The end of that bowtie is not my friend.
3) Where has all this technology put ME because of no LAANC indications at the airport?



Class E3 Airspace

Identifier
Name	BEAUFORT CLASS E5
Description of the Upper Limit Value	AA
Upper Limit Value	-9998
Upper Limit Unit of Measure
Code for the Upper Limit
Description of the Lower Limit Value
Lower Limit Value	700
Lower Limit Unit of Measure	FT
Code for the Lower Limit	SFC

From <https://faa.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=9c2e4406710048e19806ebf6a06754ad>


E5-Class E Airspace Areas Extending Upward From 700 Feet Or More Above The Surface Of The Earth

1. The airport is in Class G, which is uncontrolled airspace, so no UAS map grids in the FAA Facility Map (ArcGIS). LAANC only applies to airports in controlled airspace, and for now, only for Part 107 pilots.
2. DJI is on the list of companies that have agreed to provide LAANC services. When they do so is up to them.
3. By the FAA rules, you can fly in that area. The Class E airspace starts at 700 ft. DJI, in the interests of your safety, has put their own restrictions into the app in order to fly there (the blue bowties). Airmap, on the other hand, shows no restrictions to fly there.

 

[dwolfe002]

1. The airport is in Class G, which is uncontrolled airspace, so no UAS map grids in the FAA Facility Map (ArcGIS). LAANC only applies to airports in controlled airspace, and for now, only for Part 107 pilots.
2. DJI is on the list of companies that have agreed to provide LAANC services. When they do so is up to them.
3. By the FAA rules, you can fly in that area. The Class E airspace starts at 700 ft. DJI, in the interests of your safety, has put their own restrictions into the app in order to fly there (the blue bowties). Airmap, on the other hand, shows no restrictions to fly there.

Thanks for the explanation. I guess I'll just have to wait and see what DJI does with the area considering recreational drone pilots are only allowed to fly up to 400 ft.

Take care and happy flying!

 

[sdold]

Here's the response to my questions to the FAA. After the response, I'll attach the two images I sent them.

-------------------------------------------

Mr Dold,

The extensions to Red Bluff ( A ) require airspace authorization; the one to Chico ( B ) does not. Danville's "ear" requires authorization and the whole thing is E2, but South Lake Tahoe's does not, because it is just E4. The thing to look at is the dashed line separating the extension from the circular region. It means the surface airspace changes. Our Visualize it site shows the airspace types in a layered GIS map. https://faa.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=9c2e4406710048e19806ebf6a06754ad

Paul

Paul Hamilton

Thank you for contacting the FAA's Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS) Support Center.
Please follow up with any further inquiries at [email protected]. Additional information is also available at https://www.faa.gov/uas/.
We appreciate your feedback. Please select: UAS Safety and Integration Division AUS-400.

-------------------------------------------

 

[sdold]

Your own “Misinformation”link even states that “Class E surface areas require Authorizations under Part 107” so I don’t know how much more clear that can be.
How about you provide the coordinates or address so we can look it up and get the real answer not interpretations!

Done and Done.

 

[Milo187]

The FAA Maps support this BUT the sectional you're referencing is out of date. Check SkyVector.com and "B" doesn't exist any longer. Airmap confirms this as shown below as well.
Use Airmap and look up Renkow Road near Chico that area DOES require a LAANC authorization to fly this Class D airspace with a cap of 400'. The extension isn't even shown because the maps have changed. Munjar Road is just outside the authorization area (part of it anyway) and is in E airspace which starts at 700' AGL so below so it's Class G and we're good to fly up to 400' without authorization.
Once thing to note about LAANC via Airmap if the area you're looking to unlock is close to a lower altitude restriction you may need to adjust the altitude you're asking for or move your radius a little further away from any transition point otherwise you may get the "Rejected on Submission" warning in Airmap and you won't be able to even start props.
Rec fliers still need to observe the 5 mile rule regardless and cannot fly within 5 miles of an airport.

Take a look at the second map I've attached Red Bluff (KRBL) and you can see the Class E extension. On that map the extension would need an authorization capping at 400' for 107 holders.

Bottom line is there are plenty of resources available for pilots to use. Airmap, SkyVector and faa.maps.arcgis.com provide accurate up-to-date flight information especially since the Sectional Charts can be sometimes be difficult to interpret.

You can always call your local Flight Safety District Office (FSDO) and talk to them for any questions. I've done so before LAANC was available in my area and they were very forthcoming and helpful answering questions.

Fly safe everyone ... great discussion!

 

[dylanthecat]

Why do people keep referring to the 5 mile rule for rec pilots? It does not exist anymore.

 

[Milo187]

True as long as you’re in G airspace. I would advise everyone know the traffic pattern for airports they fly near that don’t have an active tower because you won’t be able to call a tower in most (not all) locations.
The point here is to be safe around manned aircraft because they can sneak up on you out of nowhere and by then it’s too late. Keep in mind there are knucklehead manned pilots out there as well who don’t follow the rules so they could be flying low in G airspace... I seen it happen and I think boy I’m glad I wasn’t flying in that area!

 

[AMann]

When flying close to our airport/air tanker base (with prior approval), I also carry and monitor an aviation band transceiver to monitor departure and arrival announcements on their CTAF/Unicom frequency. Knowing my bearing to the airport allows me to know if any aircraft will be shooting over me from behind the nearby hills even before I hear them as we are in a valley.

 

[AMann]

Done and Done.

Thank you for the clarification and for contacting FAA! I’m satisfied that I’m flying correctly

 

[sdold]

The FAA Maps support this BUT the sectional you're referencing is out of date. Check SkyVector.com and "B" doesn't exist any longer. Airmap confirms this as shown below as well.

The areas shown were pulled off of a website and used as examples only. I thought of adding a "not for navigation" annotation but didn't think it was necessary since presumably anyone flying in these areas would use current information.

 

[Milo187]

Unblow your mind and use AirMap or the FAA facility maps. Type in the address and you know instantly.