Poll Should Hobbyists & Commercial Pilots Be permitted to fly over Crowds

[ac0j]

There is a HUGE difference between flying over a crowd at 3000 plus feet vs. 40 or 50 ft. You are comparing apples to oranges.

There is also a HUGE difference of what happens when either crash. SO FAR, real aircraft crashing in populations is the ONLY thing that has actually happened. Many times I might add.
So you could say that you are comparing FACTS with FICTION.

 

[WParm]

There is also a HUGE difference of what happens when either crash. SO FAR, real aircraft crashing in populations is the ONLY thing that has actually happened. Many times I might add.
So you could say that you are comparing FACTS with FICTION.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. And for the record, there have actually been documented incidents of people being hurt by drones. Not too long ago a baby at a playground was hurt by an out of control drone. Pretty bad cuts on the face and lips.

30 second google search yielded this and more:

Drone carrying candy crashes into crowd, injuring six in Japan - DroneDJ

Man jailed for hitting woman with drone

So your comment that the only crashes that ever happened were with real planes is truly the FICTION part of your comment.

 

[ac0j]

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. And for the record, there have actually been documented incidents of people being hurt by drones. Not too long ago a baby at a playground was hurt by an out of control drone. Pretty bad cuts on the face and lips.

30 second google search yielded this and more:

Drone carrying candy crashes into crowd, injuring six in Japan - DroneDJ

Man jailed for hitting woman with drone

So your comment that the only crashes that ever happened were with real planes is truly the FICTION part of your comment.

The FICTION is I never said that.
The discussion was about DEATHS and DESTRUCTION. Not injuries.
Roller skates cause injuries, bicycles cause injuries, Mop buckets cause injuries.....

 

[WParm]

We were talking about safety and not death. I can’t remember the last time an innocent bystander was harmed much less killed by a plane falling out of the sky unintentionally.
Looks like you are in the minority as far as this poll is considered anyway.
Like I said, Agree to disagree with your fiction.

 

[bushie]

Risk has 2 components. Probility of an event happening and the consequence of the event jappening.

I would rate probability as low and conseqience as high. You can argue both of these.

This would result in a risk score of medium

That would mean that you should take some mitigating action
The obvious one is dont fly over crowds.

 

[AggieBQ86]

Softballs flying over crowds is quite common. Know of any death or dismemberment as a result of softballs and crowds?


First, I voted NO flying over crowds,
Second, I only posted that when the issue was "falling from the sky" Not strafing a crowd.
I fully expected the "drones are dangerous" guys to object even though there is not even one SINGLE death by drone case in the whole world, or serious brain injury as a result of a DRONE hit.
So the whole Idea is sort of "chicken little" IMHO.

Most drones we are talking about here weigh more than a soft and would be falling from a height greater than a softball. There is a reason that people are warned about sitting along the baselines. Even so, multiple people get hit and some are severely injured. Flying over crowds results in a large number of people at risk with no awareness that they could be injured.

One of the major rules of flying RC aircraft has always been not to fly over people that aren’t aware. The major problem with quads over other aircraft is they have no glide path should they lose power. With fixed wing if power is lost you can divert the aircraft away from a crowd. Not so with w/ quads.

I don’t have a problem with flying over an area with a few people scattered because the risk of hitting someone should a failure happen is low. That risk quickly increases as the crowd density increases.

 

[ac0j]

We were talking about safety and not death. I can’t remember the last time an innocent bystander was harmed much less killed by a plane falling out of the sky unintentionally.
Looks like you are in the minority as far as this poll is considered anyway.
Like I said, Agree to disagree with your fiction.

How about just TODAY?
2 killed as plane crashes through roof of kids' therapy center in Fort Lauderdale
Or yesterday?
Investigators start searching for clues in deadly Indiana plane crash
OR

Preach fixing SAFETY where it NEEDS fixed, NOT on a flying TOY forum.
Look up the word Fiction.........

 

[PropSpin]

Change is forthcoming

As useful as that would be for a responsible drone pilot, this is why no:

 

[PropSpin]

I agree a HEx would offer peace of mind
A quad you just never know

Check out the video I linked above. There's all kinds of catastrophic failure that can and does occur. Depending on size and height, if it falls it can cause serious injury or death. Who gives a flying flip about whether the operator has insurance in those cases?

 

[PropSpin]

Why ask the question? People already fly over buildings, roads, state fairs you name it! Maybe mandatory insurance ?

How is mandatory insurance going to be any consolation to a person struck and either seriously injured or killed by what is essentially the equivalent of a brick or two hanging on some props? Depending on the type of failure there is little to no glide slope or easing the impact.

So NO! Allowing them over crowds is just plain stupid.

 

[Slim.slamma]

By the Numbers
NTSB - Aviation Accidents - Index of Months
Drone Enthusiasts mostly do No Wrong
CAVU

Not many accidents to report only from years past, news/negative articles that I’ve seen a hundred times. Nothing major

 

[old man mavic]

i voted no for one simple reason why put yourself in a situation for potential disaster if your UAV fails for whatever reason if your not there then no blame can be attached to you or your UAV

 

[Slim.slamma]

if your not there then no blame can be attached to you or your UAV

That is true

 

[ac0j]

How is mandatory insurance going to be any consolation to a person struck and either seriously injured or killed by what is essentially the equivalent of a brick or two hanging on some props? Depending on the type of failure there is little to no glide slope or easing the impact.

So NO! Allowing them over crowds is just plain stupid.

I agree that we should avoid flying over people period. But lets not sensationalize. "A brick or two hanging on some props"? Better to say a mens dress shoe hanging from flimsy plastic props. Lets not make unreal quotes here that a hungry journalist can use against us later.

 

[Asgard]

No, in the UK you can apply for exemptions for such flights which is fair enough imo
Far too many operators with very poor attitudes towards other peoples safety to give a blanket approval

 

[ac0j]

By the Numbers
NTSB - Aviation Accidents - Index of Months
Drone Enthusiasts mostly do No Wrong
CAVU

Not many accidents to report only from years past, news/negative articles that I’ve seen a hundred times. Nothing major

@WParm Says that is fiction. 6 or more plane crashes a month, every month, with fatalities almost half the time. now can he show us those stats with drones? NO! he cant. The only problem is that real plane crashes only make local news most of the time, they are so common. but if a commercial pilot claims to SEE a drone within a mile of him, it makes National news.

 

[PropSpin]

I agree that we should avoid flying over people period. But lets not sensationalize. "A brick or two hanging on some props"? Better to say a mens dress shoe hanging from flimsy plastic props. Lets not make unreal quotes here that a hungry journalist can use against us later.

Check out the video I linked to above. A lot of the drones that people would be flying over crowds would be the weight of a brick or two. The mavic 2 pro is ~2 pounds. I wouldn't even want that dropping on me from 50 plus feet. It's pretty hard and angular with sharp spinny things. How about if it was falling with significant forward velocity?

 

[PropSpin]

After thinking a little about it, maybe a properly licensed and insured operator flying a drone with a reliable failsafe parachute deployment system could be permitted, if the folks on the ground were made aware...

 

[old man mavic]

with the advent of the mavic pro2 zoom do we need to fly over or close to crowds or structures any more

 

[WParm]

@WParm Says that is fiction. 6 or more plane crashes a month, every month, with fatalities almost half the time. now can he show us those stats with drones? NO! he cant. The only problem is that real plane crashes only make local news most of the time, they are so common. but if a commercial pilot claims to SEE a drone within a mile of him, it makes National news.

You are being totally ridiculous. Firstly, you are comparing two totally different things. Secondly, even if all the stats you are talking about are right, it really does't mean much in regards to the conversation we are having. There are a ton of differences between actual planes and UAV's. Most of which really aren't relevant to the conversation of whether a UAV should be flown above crowds.

You keep talking about deaths by planes. I am talking about people getting injured. People being disfigured. This is my concern. I agree with you that it is highly unlikely a drone will kill someone. I still don't want to live with the fact that I permanently disfigured someone by flying without taking the dangers into account.
Finally, given the fact that it isn't legal to fly over crowds as of this point, you most likely would have a difficult time getting insurance that would cover you to do so.

My reasons for not flying over crowds are pretty much the same as most people on this thread. I don't want to lose my Part 107 for flying against the rules, I don't want to hurt anyone and I don't see an absolute need for anyone to actually fly over a crowd.

I'm sure you are a great pilot, but not all flyers are. Just as there are some great drivers who could easily handle driving 100+ miles an hour, it doesn't mean we should allow it for everyone.

 

[ac0j]

You are being totally ridiculous. Firstly, you are comparing two totally different things. Secondly, even if all the stats you are talking about are right, it really does't mean much in regards to the conversation we are having. There are a ton of differences between actual planes and UAV's. Most of which really aren't relevant to the conversation of whether a UAV should be flown above crowds.

You keep talking about deaths by planes. I am talking about people getting injured. People being disfigured. This is my concern. I agree with you that it is highly unlikely a drone will kill someone. I still don't want to live with the fact that I permanently disfigured someone by flying without taking the dangers into account.
Finally, given the fact that it isn't legal to fly over crowds as of this point, you most likely would have a difficult time getting insurance that would cover you to do so.

My reasons for not flying over crowds are pretty much the same as most people on this thread. I don't want to lose my Part 107 for flying against the rules, I don't want to hurt anyone and I don't see an absolute need for anyone to actually fly over a crowd.

I'm sure you are a great pilot, but not all flyers are. Just as there are some great drivers who could easily handle driving 100+ miles an hour, it doesn't mean we should allow it for everyone.

I am average pilot at best. I never fly my Mavic over even a single person. Usually no one on sight when I fly. I am just tired of people acting like drones are more dangerous than actual airplanes. Because it is not even close. Since this thread started there has been almost 200 crash victims from airplanes. DEAD, not just scarred. How many bruises and cuts from drones this year? Less than 10 or 12 world wide I would guess. Less than lightning strike victims, auto crashes, mass shootings, falling debris, and dart board accidents I am almost sure.
Bottom line, as a human you have to pay attention to your surroundings and be aware of dangers. The responsibility isn’t all at the feet of Mavic pilots. And most people are able to avoid the collision from a falling drone if they are situationally aware.
Do not give people a reason to think drones are as dangerous as you perceive them to be. It would have a negative impact on those of us that enjoy flying them safely.

 

[WParm]

[QUOTE="ac0j, post: 606085, member: 35899" The responsibility isn’t all at the feet of Mavic pilots. And most people are able to avoid the collision from a falling drone if they are situationally aware.
Do not give people a reason to think drones are as dangerous as you perceive them to be. It would have a negative impact on those of us that enjoy flying them safely.[/QUOTE]

Seriously? The responsibility falls 100% at the feet of the pilot. That would be like saying a person is at fault while getting hit crossing the street. While as a pilot, I can't control mishaps that happen due to a malfunctioning drone, there is no way that I could blame the person that I may or may not hit for not being aware.