Upgrading from M2P to M3 classic?

[JeffreyS]

As a longtime Phantom 4 Pro+ user, I also have a M2P, for airline trips. My only use for using a drone is for still landscape photography. No video. As a pro, I use some high end cameras, so the sensor size and quality are of utmost importance as well as the stability of the drone. I've been getting that from the Phantoms. It is possible that the new Mavic 3 classic will produce better quality images than the similar 20MP sensor in my P4P's? But perhaps with better dynamic range and less noise in low light? Another question: is the only difference between the M3 Classic and the Mavic 3 simply the additional sensor/lens? I don't plan to ever use that small sensor so I may not need that model. I appears that all other specs and features are the same. Bummer that I can not use my DJI RM500 Smart Controller from the M2P. Any advice on this topic is appreciated.

 

[Chrislaf]

I have the Mavic 3 (the model with the 7X tele lens). Although you may not have a need for the 7X tele lens in your professional work, it might come in handy for exploring distant locations to shoot at or zooming in on details you might be interesting in flying closer to photograph with the wide-angle camera. Being in the US you should be able to pick up a refurbished copy of the Mavic 3 with the tele lens at a price that is just above or even below the cost of the Mavic 3 Classic. The usefulness of the 7X tele camera on the Mavic 3 is underestimated and many people judge its quality from the initial reviews when it was released and the software was not complete.

I also have the RC Pro controller and if you are going to use the Mavic 3 for professional photography then you are likely going to want the RC Pro controller. As with your Smart controller, it is fast and smooth and can be customized to suit your needs.

Good luck with your decisions.

Chris

 

[Chrislaf]

As to your question about the dynamic range of the Mavic 3 being better than the P4P's and less noise in low light, I would assume that it is better since the M3 has MFT sensor which is larger than the 1" sensor of the P4P but I have never had a P4P to compare to. Maybe @Meta4 would be better able to answer your question here as I think he has both drones and would be able to make a direct comparison.

Chris

 

[JeffreyS]

As to your question about the dynamic range of the Mavic 3 being better than the P4P's and less noise in low light, I would assume that it is better since the M3 has MFT sensor which is larger than the 1" sensor of the P4P but I have never had a P4P to compare to. Maybe @Meta4 would be better able to answer your question here as I think he has both drones and would be able to make a direct comparison.

Chris

Thank you Chris for both your replies.

 

[Ty Pilot]

As a longtime Phantom 4 Pro+ user, I also have a M2P, for airline trips. My only use for using a drone is for still landscape photography. No video. As a pro, I use some high end cameras, so the sensor size and quality are of utmost importance as well as the stability of the drone. I've been getting that from the Phantoms. It is possible that the new Mavic 3 classic will produce better quality images than the similar 20MP sensor in my P4P's? But perhaps with better dynamic range and less noise in low light? Another question: is the only difference between the M3 Classic and the Mavic 3 simply the additional sensor/lens? I don't plan to ever use that small sensor so I may not need that model. I appears that all other specs and features are the same. Bummer that I can not use my DJI RM500 Smart Controller from the M2P. Any advice on this topic is appreciated.

I'm in exactly the same boat as you having an aging M2P. I plan on getting the Mavic 3 Classic. As for image quality being superior over either the M2P or P4P, well that depends on a lot of variables, but I think all around, it certainly is not a downgrade.

As you mention you are into photography alone, I would suspect that if you utilize the full potential of the M3's camera shooting RAW or AEB, you won't be disappointed. That said, there are some that believe the M2P and P4P+ still have yet to be eclipsed.

The 4/3rds sensor (on paper) is a better than a 1 inch sensor, especially in low light. I shoot a lot of video with a GH5 (4/3rds sensor) that has a Viltrox speed booster that accepts all my Canon lenses. I also still use a LX10 (20mp 1" sensor) when I need a smaller camera on a gimbal if I need to shoot and scoot; and there are times when after grading, it is hard to tell the difference. But in low light I will always use the GH5 as it does have a slight edge there, but only slight.

It is correct that the only difference is the additional camera is not on the M3 Classic, but you will find a LOT of folks that think you are crazy not to want it.

 

[AlanL]

I do know a bit about your photography and while I love the ability to play with telephoto I suspect it would be a novelty at best for your needs. While I do get some nice shots with my M3 using the 7x lens it takes quite a bit of work to tease a workable image out of the capture. Even with extensive processing I don’t think it would measure up to your standards.

 

[JeffreyS]

I do know a bit about your photography and while I love the ability to play with telephoto I suspect it would be a novelty at best for your needs. While I do get some nice shots with my M3 using the 7x lens it takes quite a bit of work to tease a workable image out of the capture. Even with extensive processing I don’t think it would measure up to your standards.

Thanks, Alan. That's what I expected. I'd rather put the $$ into the controller with the screen.

 

[vindibona1]

@JeffreyS
In another thread I laid out some of the unexpected expenses (or savings) that one might encounter when comparing the M3 to the M3C. To keep you from digging here are a few things that I dug up for my own examination. Bottom line: There is a premium to the 7x lens beyond the initial cost should you choose to purchase care refresh. I'm not saying one shouldn't go for the M3 refurb which is a good deal, but it is important to fully understand all the extra costs involved. For me, I cannot get a break on sales tax for the m3 refurb which adds an additionall $170 to the cost of the refurb. If I could get the M3 refurb sales tax free that might be enough of a difference to allow me to "eat" the difference in the C/R premimum costs, disregarding the difference in deductibles.

If the difference between the Mavic 3 and Classic is only the 7x lens then it might need to be assessed how important that 7x lens is, because there is additional up-front cos for simply having that extra 7x lens. But additionally we end up paying an extra $140 premium for the care refresh premium, and more for standard repair deductibles, but over $200 more for fly-away deductible. All these "stacked" extra charges just for the privilege of having the 7x lens????

I've cut and pasted the care refresh costs and deductibles below for your convenience. To me they are eye opening. The one other thing I just learned is that you pay the premium which can take you out to 2 years, but you cannot renew it beyond 2 years. So if you're careful and don't have any crashes leading to a repair, we've paid all this money which DJI just puts in their pocket and your out on your own after 2 years with no ability to renew beyond the 2 years.

At least for me the 7x lens isn't that important.
For those of you who have a Mavic 3, how often do you actually use the 7x lens????

DJI Care Refresh 2-Year Plan (DJI Mavic 3 Classic)
USD $259

DJI Care Refresh 2-Year Plan (DJI Mavic 3)
USD $399

 

[GadgetGuy]

I have the Mavic 3 (the model with the 7X tele lens). Although you may not have a need for the 7X tele lens in your professional work, it might come in handy for exploring distant locations to shoot at or zooming in on details you might be interesting in flying closer to photograph with the wide-angle camera. Being in the US you should be able to pick up a refurbished copy of the Mavic 3 with the tele lens at a price that is just above or even below the cost of the Mavic 3 Classic. The usefulness of the 7X tele camera on the Mavic 3 is underestimated and many people judge its quality from the initial reviews when it was released and the software was not complete.

I also have the RC Pro controller and if you are going to use the Mavic 3 for professional photography then you are likely going to want the RC Pro controller. As with your Smart controller, it is fast and smooth and can be customized to suit your needs.

Good luck with your decisions.

Chris

@JeffreyS : As Chris states in this quoted post, even if you never use the 7x telephoto camera for recording, it is invaluable for exploring from a great distance, to decide if it worth flying closer to use the 4/3 sensor, and increases the resale value by $300-$500. In good lighting, the limitations of the f/4.4 aperture and the smaller 7x telephoto sensor are easily overcome for stellar results at the full 7x optical telephoto, staying away from the digital zoom from 7x to 28x for recording. No one who has actually used the 7x telephoto under the latest FW improvements would happily give it up! Drone Nerds sells the DJI Refurbished aircraft which are indistinguishable from new, and so does DJI on eBay.

Ditto on the high recommendation for the RC Pro. It's the Mavic 3 version of the SC, and is also compatible with the Air 2S and Mini 3 Pro.

 

[JeffreyS]

Thanks Gadget,

I guess the small camera can be used for scouting even though I am always doing that with the real camera anyway. And of course the resale value increases by $500, which coincidentally is the additional cost of the feature itself! I do wonder, however, what I'm getting for the $750 upgrade to a RC Pro with the same size screen besides additional brightness. I rarely if ever use the video or navigational preset programs. My needs are simple and are already met on my P4P and M2P controllers with the display. Mainly the basic flying controls and the camera setting controls.

 

[GadgetGuy]

Thanks Gadget,

I guess the small camera can be used for scouting even though I am always doing that with the real camera anyway. And of course the resale value increases by $500, which coincidentally is the additional cost of the feature itself! I do wonder, however, what I'm getting for the $750 upgrade to a RC Pro with the same size screen besides additional brightness. I rarely if ever use the video or navigational preset programs. My needs are simple and are already met on my P4P and M2P controllers with the display. Mainly the basic flying controls and the camera setting controls.

In that case, try the $310 DJI RC first. If it works for you, and you have no need for an external monitor or Moverio BT40 support, you'll save the extra cost of the RC Pro. DJI is always looking to create cheaper versions of successful decices. The DJI RC is quite a bit cheaper, and offers most of the capability of the RC Pro for 25% of the cost of the RC Pro. Having an extra RC-N1 in the Refurb Mavic 3 package is still an advantage, as you can use up to a 12.9” iPadPro with it as an alternative to the smaller DJI RC screen, that you can't hook up an external monitor to. Using the RC-N1 and the DJI RC, you'll be more dependent upon making manual setting changes for exposure by physically touching the screen, rather than through the 5 way joystick and extra customizable buttons and button combinations on the RC Pro. It's a matter of convenience and expandability. Until the DJI RC was released, the RC Pro was the only alternative to the RC-N1 over the last year, and almost mandatory for an enjoyable flying experience, coming from the Mavic 2 and P4P controllers.

 

[AlanL]

Thanks Gadget,

I guess the small camera can be used for scouting even though I am always doing that with the real camera anyway. And of course the resale value increases by $500, which coincidentally is the additional cost of the feature itself! I do wonder, however, what I'm getting for the $750 upgrade to a RC Pro with the same size screen besides additional brightness. I rarely if ever use the video or navigational preset programs. My needs are simple and are already met on my P4P and M2P controllers with the display. Mainly the basic flying controls and the camera setting controls.

I don't use my M3/RC Pro for video at all so my primary use is the same as yours - a flying tripod for still images. With the M3 and the RC Pro you can program the console buttons for jumping back and forth between the Explore mode (1-28x) and fixed 1x/7x mode. Zoom is on the right hand side wheel. I set mine up this way so I can look around with up to 28x (never shoot at that resolution) and then make decisions on how I want to reposition to get the shot with the 24mm or 162mm lens. I almost never have to use the touch screen this way.

 

[GadgetGuy]

I don't use my M3/RC Pro for video at all so my primary use is the same as yours - a flying tripod for still images. With the M3 and the RC Pro you can program the console buttons for jumping back and forth between the Explore mode (1-28x) and fixed 1x/7x mode. Zoom is on the right hand side wheel. I set mine up this way so I can look around with up to 28x (never shoot at that resolution) and then make decisions on how I want to reposition to get the shot with the 24mm or 162mm lens. I almost never have to use the touch screen this way.

Exactly! Anything to avoid touching the screen. It's small, and never as responsive to touch with fat fingers as pressing a programmed button, while keeping both hands on the sticks at all times, and even more important, if you are shooting continuous video!

 

[Starz]

The zoom feature is very useful. You would not regret that decision.

 

[HoozierDroneDaddy]

Here are some sample JPG's with the telephoto lens taken from 3.5 miles away. Used Dropbox as all the files were too large to upload here. Below in a single file.

Mavic 3 Zoom

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

 

[Meta4]

But perhaps with better dynamic range and less noise in low light? Another question: is the only difference between the M3 Classic and the Mavic 3 simply the additional sensor/lens?

Here are a few sample images from the main camera.

M3 sample images - Above & Beyond Photography

This gallery hosted by SmugMug; your photos look better here.

abovephotos.smugmug.com

I've been very happy with low light performance.

I don't plan to ever use that small sensor so I may not need that model.

I didn't plan to but have been pleasantly surprised.
Some samples here:

M3 tele lens examples - Above & Beyond Photography

This gallery hosted by SmugMug; your photos look better here.

abovephotos.smugmug.com

 

[JeffreyS]

Thanks guys for posting up some samples. As we know, one can not tell the difference between an internet sized jpeg made with a 6 MP P&S or my Fuji 102MP beast. That being said, Meta's maritime pics do provide a general idea of the good IQ to be expected. For me, the requirement is superb quality at large print size, typically 18 x 32". I need perfect conditions and light, not to mention expert technique, to get that from my Phantom 4 Pro, but I have done it many times. I often get a bit closer and expose a series of frames to be stitched later in Photoshop. That gives me more pixel density and the ability to crop and compose the desired image. I'm hoping that the M3 will do a little bit better. And I hope to have the great stability of the P4P. The ability to hover steadfast is essential. Just like a tripod! Examples of my work: www.jeffreysipress.com.

 

[JeffreyS]

There is a typo in the link to Jeffrey's website - it should read Home - Jeffrey Sipress Photography.

Thanks Alan. FIXED!

 

[KAOS Imagery]

Hi Jeffrey. I currently own a P4P, M2P and just got the M3 a month ago. I do a lot of landscape and boat photography using a number of Canon bodies - 7D Mark II, 5D Mark IV and R5 - so I'm always looking for better quality drone images. In my opinion, my M2P is slightly better than the P4P, and the M3 is definitely better than the M2P, but not but a huge margin. Low light performance is better and the image files are sharper right out of camera. And yes, there's a little more flexibility in cropping, but it's still just 20mp. The telephoto is ok-ish, I'd say usable for web work and maybe okay in the right light for a large print. It's been so gray and overcast here I haven't had much opportunity to test that.

The M3 is noticeably more stable than either of the other drones. I appreciate the longer flight time too. Before purchasing the M3, I googled around and found some M3 raw files that people shared, downloaded those and played with post processing to see how it worked for me. I was impressed enough to get it.

I bought the M3 from DJI direct as a factory refurb, so it was a little less money than the M3 Classic and whether or not I use the telephoto down the road, at least I have it. The refurb looks and flys perfect, and there was no state sales tax taken by DJI so that was an added benefit.

If you are not already using Topaz DeNoise, you might consider it. The software really cleans up the images from all my drones nicely and adds some sharpening as well, of course, all those settings are adjustable by the user. I also use their Gigapixel software to enlarge a file when I need to print something really big and those results have been fairly impressive as well.

 

[JeffreyS]

Hi Jeffrey. I currently own a P4P, M2P and just got the M3 a month ago. I do a lot of landscape and boat photography using a number of Canon bodies - 7D Mark II, 5D Mark IV and R5 - so I'm always looking for better quality drone images. In my opinion, my M2P is slightly better than the P4P, and the M3 is definitely better than the M2P, but not but a huge margin. Low light performance is better and the image files are sharper right out of camera. And yes, there's a little more flexibility in cropping, but it's still just 20mp. The telephoto is ok-ish, I'd say usable for web work and maybe okay in the right light for a large print. It's been so gray and overcast here I haven't had much opportunity to test that.

The M3 is noticeably more stable than either of the other drones. I appreciate the longer flight time too. Before purchasing the M3, I googled around and found some M3 raw files that people shared, downloaded those and played with post processing to see how it worked for me. I was impressed enough to get it.

I bought the M3 from DJI direct as a factory refurb, so it was a little less money than the M3 Classic and whether or not I use the telephoto down the road, at least I have it. The refurb looks and flys perfect, and there was no state sales tax taken by DJI so that was an added benefit.

If you are not already using Topaz DeNoise, you might consider it. The software really cleans up the images from all my drones nicely and adds some sharpening as well, of course, all those settings are adjustable by the user. I also use their Gigapixel software to enlarge a file when I need to print something really big and those results have been fairly impressive as well.

Thanks so much KAOS. We certainly do have the same needs. I've owned numerous Canon full frame cameras since the initial 1Ds. Now using the Fuji GFX100 system and a new XT-5. Still have my Canon 5DsR's and R5 with tons of glass. If you are correct that the M3 is as stable as the P4P, then I might see myself weaning myself off the Phantom series, though I still own a few. Yes, the pixel count is the same, but it's the quality and size of the pixels that really matters. I sure want less noise in low light. And I do a lot of panos, both horizontal and vertical, often ending with a squarish aspect ratio. I do use the Topaz tools, and have 28 years with Photoshop. You'll recognize my drone work scattered throughout my website.