What would happen to a RID signal if your drone has RID but then you Attach a 2nd RID transmitter to it?

[Don Testme]

Whould it look like 2 drones are flying near each other? How would anyone know which is the real one?

 

[msinger]

Would both transmitters be transmitting the same data? If so, you'd have two duplicate transmissions -- making it appear as if only one drone is being flown.

 

[Reid937]

Would both transmitters be transmitting the same data? If so, you'd have two duplicate transmissions -- making it appear as if only one drone is being flown.

The drone's RID and a separate RID unit would each be transmitting their own serial number, so the data streams would not be identical.

 

[Deleted member 170899]

Sounds like a really bad idea. Trying to imagine a good reason.

 

[old man mavic]

correct me if i am wrong ,but i thought the whole idea was to get RID of RID not add to It
sorry couldnt resist a bit of humour

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

Sounds like a really bad idea. Trying to imagine a good reason.

At the very least it would seem to be a purposeless exercise.

Why desire anyone watching to think there are 2 drones following virtually on top of each other ?
Lol, most pilots here would probably like to not have even one RID operating on their flight.

If there are 2 identifying signals sent, what would be the situation with the pilot location ?
The same I guess ?
I am fairly sure the controller location is transmitted by both RID modules, so it'd look like a pilot is flying 2 drones and maybe attract attention from anyone 'watching' ?

Will be interesting when this is introduced.

edit - typo

 

[Grandpa]

Sounds like a really bad idea. Trying to imagine a good reason.

Maybe if the original RID went kaput, put on an external RID, then somehow the original decides to work again? Maybe due to a firmware upgrade or something.

 

[msinger]

The drone's RID and a separate RID unit would each be transmitting their own serial number

I guess it depends on the RID transmitter? The OP didn't specify.

For example, I could create a device that transmits 10 identical signals -- all with the same serial number. Silly, but possible. And there would be nothing stopping me from transmitting a signal with a serial number that matches a serial number of a drone I don't own.

 

[Ty Pilot]

What would happen to a RID signal if your drone has RID but then you attach a 2nd RID transmitter to it?

You will suddenly find that yourself; and your drone, have been transported to a parallel universe where twice as many "anti-drone" folks will seek you out to harass you when you fly. It will have a "doubling" effect, if you will.

On a good note your batteries will last twice as long.

*Sorry, I read OMM's post and as it turns out, I cannot resist either.

 

[LoudThunder]

Whould it look like 2 drones are flying near each other? How would anyone know which is the real one?

If you have a RID enabled Drone that transmits the FAA's required signal specifications, it transmits: the Drone's ID (Serial Number?), the Drone's location and altitude, the Drone's velocity, the Control Station location and elevation (Your location whether you move about or not, because your controller "talks" to the drone where it is…), the Drone's Time mark (Flight Time?), and any Emergency Status (low battery warnings, weak signals, strong winds, etc…)

If you add a Broadcast Module, it will also transmit at the same time. However, since it is not electronically connected to the Drone or the Controller, it can only broadcast information relative to itself.

The Module broadcast the following information: the Drone's ID (something you would have to program into), the Drone's location and altitude (actually the Modules location and altitude…), the Drone's velocity (again, the Module's speed), the Takeoff location and elevation (where it was located when turned), and the Time mark (how long it has been turned on…

I have provided a Screen Grab of one of these Apps reading the Broadcast signal from an Add-On Module, the DroneTag Add-on Module:

Dronetag

Dronetag develops a solution for safe and efficient drone traffic management in the European airspace

bit.ly

These Apps are capable of decimating the signals from multiple Drones. Note that it shows the Map, the Flight Path, the Takeoff Location, and the Telemetry is recorded with altitude, speed, location, distance from controller, and so much more… And the Module will transmit information that information for up to 1.5 km or almost a mile…

This App allows all this information to downloaded as a CSV File and this information can then be provided as definitive proof of your flights to the FAA if you are flying where you should not, flying without an authorization or waiver, beyond Visual Line of Sight, etc…

So, if you have a drone vigilante who takes an undue interest in your flights, perhaps in your neighborhood, a local park, etc… they might just save a batch of your flights and submit all of them to the FAA to cause you trouble.

 

[Deleted member 170899]

@LoudThunder that's a great answer! Can you think of any good reason for doing this? The only thing I can come up with is perhaps to check the accuracy of a RID against a broadcast module.
I would hate to imagine someone entering one of my drones ids into their broadcast module.

 

[LoudThunder]

Can you think of any good reason for doing this? T

StarStuff, I cannot think of one good reason to do this, other than for nefarious reasons (an attempt to hide the real RID). Well, that is my take from the question the OP originally asked, "How would anyone know which is the real one?"

As for someone "hijacking" your ID, it ain't gonna happen. I've done some more research and unless there is some Illegal Hacking going on, the RID on your RID Compliant Drone is probably the Serial Number and the RID on your Non-Compliant Drone will become the Modules Number.

Now, here is a thought, when a Drone is Registered on the FAADroneZone, the serial number is manually entered by the user and the FAA does not verify if the number is the actual or a fanciful number made up by the user…

But, if push-comes-to-shove, the FAA could subpoena the information from the drone and module manufacturer. So, Don't Sweat the Small Stuff…

I will be posting more information shortly…

 

[msinger]

As for someone "hijacking" your ID, it ain't gonna happen

IDs are shared online all of the time (lots of times in these forums) when people share their flight logs. So, it would be pretty easy to compile a list of valid serial numbers. While not impossible to acquire, there probably is not much to be gained by spoofing IDs.

 

[LoudThunder]

If you have a RID enabled Drone that transmits the FAA's required signal specifications,

This is a Follow-Up on the original Posting…

Based on several questions and observations made by some of the members of the various web sites that I have posted this information on, I have some follow-up information…

The Remote Broadcast Module must be tamper resistant, meaning the Identification Number assigned to the unit cannot be changed. The Identification Number will be assigned by the manufacturer.

Next, if your Drone is a Non-Compliant Unmanned Aircraft (no built in RID…) and you are required to use a Remote Broadcast Module due to the drone's weight (for Rec Pilots…) or the drone (all weights…) is used in a Part 107 Operation, then you will be required to go into your FAADroneZone Account and edit the Drone's Identification Number (usually the Serial Number…) and change it to the Remote Broadcast Module Identification Number.

For more information, please see the 470-Page FAA Final Rule…

https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/2021-08/RemoteID_Final_Rule.pdf

or a more condensed, and readable version put out by the FPV Freedom Coalition…

Remote ID Final Rule Summary — FPV Freedom Coalition

fpvfc.org

 

[MAVE (Little bird)]

correct me if i am wrong ,but i thought the whole idea was to get RID of RID not add to It
sorry couldnt resist a bit of humour

Well old man, ya still got it. Lol.

 

[LoudThunder]

IDs are shared online all of the time (lots of times in these forums) when people share their flight logs. So, it would be pretty easy to compile a list of valid serial numbers. While not impossible to acquire, there probably is not much to be gained by spoofing IDs.

Yes, acquiring a Drone's ID is not all that difficult, but the Drone will only transmit it's ID, the number that is imprinted into its RAM Chip, and unless that number is illegally hacked into the memory of the drone, it will always transmit its own manufacturer's ID number, not a copied or "stolen ID".

 

[msinger]

Yes, acquiring a Drone's ID is not all that difficult, but the Drone will only transmit it's ID, the number that is imprinted into its RAM Chip, and unless that number is illegally hacked into the memory of the drone, it will always transmit its own manufacturer's ID number, not a copied or "stolen ID".

If we're only following the happy path, then, yes, only the Remote ID assigned to the drone will be transmitted. It's also important to understand the edge cases though. And since these signals are not encrypted, they can be easily replicated, spoofed, etc.

In short, each transmitter (whether that be a DJI drone or a program I wrote) will transmit the Remote ID it was programmed to transmit.

 

[LoudThunder]

In short, each transmitter (whether that be a DJI drone or a program I wrote) will transmit the Remote ID it was programmed to transmit.

I concur that the ID can be spoofed, but for what purpose? If you wanted to fake a flight of a drone not of your own, but that of someone else's; and we wanted to conjure up reasons for that, well I would guess that we could then start writing crime novels and spy movies…

But like I wrote, the FAA wants the ID Tamperproof, and as a retired old computer programmer, I know there are few Tamperproof systems… And I know that the Fly App has been hacked so folks can fly without any DJI Geo Zone interference…

Now, if you had nefarious reasons, like to drop illegal items into a prison like cell phones, drugs, guns, candy bars… I suppose that an old, not RID Compliant Drone would be a better choice as it would not be transmitting all that data to give itself away as well as I would paint over any flashing lights and arrange some distractions, like "open header" drag racing in front of the prison to cover the sound of the drone. I would arrange to do this at night, and drop the items into a discrete area of the exercise yard for pick up the next day…

See, I've already "written" the first episode of "Bandito Drone…" L L

PS, I am republishing this Topic as its own important Topic, rather than under the fanciful musing of the original OP…

 

[msinger]

I concur that the ID can be spoofed, but for what purpose?

I guess there could be many purposes. But, I'm just discussing ideas on the original question above:

"How would anyone know which is the real one?"

My point is one cannot also be sure which is the real one.

 

[Deleted member 170899]

This is a Follow-Up on the original Posting…

Based on several questions and observations made by some of the members of the various web sites that I have posted this information on, I have some follow-up information…

The Remote Broadcast Module must be tamper resistant, meaning the Identification Number assigned to the unit cannot be changed. The Identification Number will be assigned by the manufacturer.

Next, if your Drone is a Non-Compliant Unmanned Aircraft (no built in RID…) and you are required to use a Remote Broadcast Module due to the drone's weight (for Rec Pilots…) or the drone (all weights…) is used in a Part 107 Operation, then you will be required to go into your FAADroneZone Account and edit the Drone's Identification Number (usually the Serial Number…) and change it to the Remote Broadcast Module Identification Number.

For more information, please see the 470-Page FAA Final Rule…

https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/2021-08/RemoteID_Final_Rule.pdf

or a more condensed, and readable version put out by the FPV Freedom Coalition…

Remote ID Final Rule Summary — FPV Freedom Coalition

fpvfc.org

Excellent! Also, good to see a fellow Airman on here.