Why do we have drone rules?

Prop Wash · Jul 7, 2021

Chaosrider said:
I sure wish there was a way to display AGL altitude on the screen while flying. It should be doable without any additional HW.

I fly Mini-2. Can you get AGL displayed on any of the larger drones?

Thx,

TCS

SkyeHigh said:
Not possible without additional hardware. The aircraft has no idea how high it is above the ground other than at the location and point of take-off.

GPS does not provide accurate enough altitude data to be of use.

The solution would require radar, expensive and power hungry or LiDar, which is cheaper but can easily be fooled by plant/tree foliage or surfaces that scatter light or absorb it.

This is me - Recreational M2 Pilot - Only have a 1 1/2 years of experience.

No doubt both of you are more experienced pilots than me. I'm asking the question to understand more about this.
I may be way off but here is MY understanding. @Chaosrider: you are wanting AGL (no matter where you are) to be displayed. i.e. Once Homepoint is set and you fly flat and straight toward a hill. Your M2 is still flying flat, but the AGL would be decreasing because of the hill. You want to show that decrease as you're flying. Do I understand that correctly?
@SkyeHigh - you're saying the above is not currently possible.

By all means, if I missed it, feel free to let me know. Thanks for your patience with a less experienced guy.

dronerdave · Jul 7, 2021

NEWorldPhoto said:
Oh, there's more to it! Now the unlicensed pilot is able to take the elevator all the way up to the roof of the 600' tower, and while standing on the roof, takes off the drone and climb it straight up until the altitude indicator on the drone app shows "400' Altitude" ? SOO.... now the drone is actually at 1000' AGL!!! ... But of course, at the time of takeoff in the roof, while the drone app is still showing an altitude of 0', it's actually at 600' AGL, being at the top of the tower!
And this is how the recreational unlicensed pilot is able to fly "legally" to the same 1000' "AGL" altitude as the Part 107 one. Because, supposedly, it's not illegal for a recreational non Part 107 pilot to takeoff from the top of a hill or building and fly straight up to 400' "AGL" from there, as the pilot is essentially on the "ground", either the ground in the highest part of a hill, or the "ground" in the last floor of a skyscraper? Oh, is that considered a legitimate "ground"???....
ANYWAY.. as seen in this example, rules can be confusing, complicated, and many times they lack common sense!!
Why not simplify the things and just make the "400' above-a-structure" rule apply equally to both Part 107 and recreational pilots the same way?? That will give recreational pilots more flexibility; after all, safety is NOT being compromised by giving Part 107 pilots the possibility of flying 400' above a tall structure!!
And now that recreational pilots need to get the TRUST safety "certification", why not give them in "exchange" that same added "benefit" that Part 107 pilots enjoy?
Let's hope it happens in the future, with the increasing number of regulations, I think it's fair to at least concede some degree of additional flexibility to everyone ?????

From my understanding the recreational AGL rule it's 400' max height above the ground directly below the aircraft, not take off point. Buildings and structures are not considered the ground level (for us rec folks). To me it's common sense that you need to know more as a 107 holder when operating in the NAS. Go on line and search for a 107 practice test and take it. I'm not 107 but was able to pass it at 92% yet I still had to struggle with some of the questions indicating I'd need to study more. The trust test was so easy that I didn't need to read the multiple choice questions; I already knew which answer was correct because there was generally only one that fit as the correct answer. I feel the 107 test vs the trust test is like comparing a CDL to a standard driving license. When flying, it's all about making sure you are qualified to operate in a safe manner depending on the intended flight.

Chaosrider · Jul 7, 2021

SkyeHigh said:
GPS ‘can’ do that. Generally it’s accuracy ‘can’ be +- 10 to 20-metres. The issue is the number but more importantly the spread of satellites to get sufficient data to give a reasonable measurement. In the middle of a desert you would be ok but trees, mountains, valleys and buildings etc. would restrict satellite visibility and hence spread.

Living in a canyon, I'm very familiar with that! Sometimes my sat radio burps when I'm driving in and out of the canyon.

My second Mini-2, Dijanne, fell victim to a loss of GPS signal. I was flying down into the canyon on that day, and I failed to sufficiently consider the GPS loss risk, and she got eaten by a demented pine tree. Successfully repaired! I thought sure they'd have to replace her, since the fuselage was cracked, but apparently not.

Since then I've paid a lot of attention to the GPS signal on every flight. DJI Fly seems to require 10 satellites in view to launch, which I always get, but frequently not immediately. Once up and flying, I can usually see 20.

Which reminds me. When it doesn't have GPS lock, the controller screams like mad. Which is fine, except that it doesn't shut up once it does get lock! Is there a way to turn that off?

Thx,

TCS

Chaosrider · Jul 7, 2021

Prop Wash said:
This is me - Recreational M2 Pilot - Only have a 1 1/2 years of experience.

No doubt both of you are more experienced pilots than me. I'm asking the question to understand more about this.
I may be way off but here is MY understanding. @Chaosrider: you are wanting AGL (no matter where you are) to be displayed. i.e. Once Homepoint is set and you fly flat and straight toward a hill. Your M2 is still flying flat, but the AGL would be decreasing because of the hill. You want to show that decrease as you're flying. Do I understand that correctly?
@SkyeHigh - you're saying the above is not currently possible.

By all means, if I missed it, feel free to let me know. Thanks for your patience with a less experienced guy.

That's exactly the issue I'd like to address, if there was a cheap and effective way to do so. Once I cross the creek at the bottom of the canyon, the ground rises very quickly. I've solved the problem by just advancing incrementally, but it would be nice to know how far the ground is below me at any given time.

But, not soon, apparently.

Thx,

TCS

sar104 · Jul 7, 2021

SkyeHigh said:
Technically it is possible but weight, size and cost are not yet feasible for consumer grade models.

For height measurement at the typical limit of 120-meters requires a larger sensing device than at lower heights and this becomes physically restrictive. A suitable LiDAR would need a true laser source such as:

https://au.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Benewake/TF03-180-Uart?qs=DPoM0jnrROW8MmJZHHPWjA%3D%3D

The cheaper ‘LiDAR’ devices use LED-based light sources that have a range of just meters.

It's probably a bit expensive for cheaper consumer drones, but size and weight are not the disqualifying factors:. This is one that we have been using:

SF11/C (120 m)

SF11/C is a long-range (120 meter), light-weight, laser altimeter designed specifically for use on UAVs (multi-copter or fixed-wing). Typical applications: - Warning of FAA flight limits - Precision photography - Terrain following - Assist with takeoff, landing, and hovering. The SF11/C...

lightwarelidar.com

Rattydude77 · Jul 7, 2021

Irresponsible people sums it up in one word

AnzacJack · Jul 8, 2021

Because of this

Maviac · Jul 8, 2021

anzacjack said:
Because of this

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Holy cow!

DoomMeister · Jul 8, 2021

Maviac said:
Holy cow!

That is an understatement!

More like full tilt, all out STUPID!!!!!

Prop Wash · Jul 8, 2021

anzacjack said:
Because of this

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That's WAY too close!! Nice look at the 225, but...

AZDave · Jul 8, 2021

anzacjack said:
Because of this

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That guy should be in jail.

sar104 · Jul 8, 2021

anzacjack said:
Because of this

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I'm quite surprised that this video hasn't generated more comments - the last one like this turned into a huge discussion. Perhaps you should post it to a new thread.

AnzacJack · Jul 9, 2021

Ok. Will do
I was undecided about generating interest and views for this type of thing. Plus im not sure about the legality or if this was an approved mission in Kiev. I doubt it but it seems related to this clip which seems like it was planned and endorsed by someone official.

but ill repost

SkyeHigh · Jul 9, 2021

sar104 said:
It's probably a bit expensive for cheaper consumer drones, but size and weight are not the disqualifying factors:. This is one that we have been using:

SF11/C (120 m)

SF11/C is a long-range (120 meter), light-weight, laser altimeter designed specifically for use on UAVs (multi-copter or fixed-wing). Typical applications: - Warning of FAA flight limits - Precision photography - Terrain following - Assist with takeoff, landing, and hovering. The SF11/C...

lightwarelidar.com

Thanks for that. Yes, a bit expensive but for personal projects - I'm interested.

sar104 · Jul 9, 2021

SkyeHigh said:
Thanks for that. Yes, a bit expensive but for personal projects - I'm interested.

And just to add, it interfaces well with Arducopter.

sar104 · Jul 9, 2021

anzacjack said:
Ok. Will do
I was undecided about generating interest and views for this type of thing. Plus im not sure about the legality or if this was an approved mission in Kiev. I doubt it but it seems related to this clip which seems like it was planned and endorsed by someone official.

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but ill repost

Not sure about that. Same aircraft, but different source, and that video was shot in Canada.