Would you buy a M2P now with remote id on distant horizon?

[Mitch]

Would you buy an M2P at roughly it’s present full price now (roughly $1600)with remote id on distant horizon?

 

[Lastrexking]

Nope. There’s a similar issue here in the uk/eu with the drone category markings and the new regulations coming in. DJI didn’t incorporate the new rule requirements into the Air2, which is why I didn’t buy one. You can still fly it, but in a few years the regulations will be different, so I’d have to buy again. Plus, the resale will be much lower than in previous years. Thankfully, none of this affects the sub 250g rules so the Mini’s will be popular.

 

[anotherlab]

Depends on your immediate need and location. I'm in Upstate NY, my flying season is over for a few months. I would wait to see if DJI announces that RID will be added to the M2P,

 

[passedpawn]

Nope. There’s a similar issue here in the uk/eu with the drone category markings and the new regulations coming in. DJI didn’t incorporate the new rule requirements into the Air2, which is why I didn’t buy one. You can still fly it, but in a few years the regulations will be different, so I’d have to buy again. Plus, the resale will be much lower than in previous years. Thankfully, none of this affects the sub 250g rules so the Mini’s will be popular.

So, you believe that older drones won't be grandfather'ed in? I'm under that assumption. I didn't read the proposed law though.

 

[Camino Ken]

Previous analysis by experts on this forum have suggested most of the newer Mavics can be made compliant with the new regs via a simple firmware update. Unknown if this still applies to the most recent incarnation.

 

[Thomas B]

Would you buy an M2P at roughly it’s present full price now (roughly $1600)with remote id on distant horizon?

FAA announced yesterday the requirement for remote ID. End Users have until summer 2023 to comply and manufacturers have until summer of 2022 to begin producing the M2P with remote ID.

 

[Phantomrain.org]

Would you buy an M2P at roughly it’s present full price now (roughly $1600)with remote id on distant horizon?

The problem is that we know nothing about how the ID is going to be implemented.
It could be as simple as and RFID sticker that can be scanned from miles away and if that is the case its not going to be a big dramatic deal.

Because most drones cannot carry that much weight I cant imagine it being any more elaborate that that.

Now if DJI starts to discount there drones more than the Pathetic 5% , than I would start to worry.

Even the Stock UAVS dropped a few points on the news but quickly recovered and than moved up.

There is also the possibility that the drone prices go up because of this, you just never know.

So that distant horizon is clearly in the fog and could be for a very long time...

Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly your Mavic 2 in the Rain.

 

[eaglesurfing]

Make sure you get a drone that is newer and you are sure you have the Remote ID installed.
I heard that after it does go into effect that there will be up another 30 months before it will be into full swing.

The area that I think is in the fog is what is going to read the ID and how much is it going to cost to have one.

All of the ones who thought that the smaller drones will get off the hook might get a surprise.

I think this is going to get interesting.

 

[Mitch]

I live in the U.S. FWIW.

 

[vindibona1]

Assuming that the OP is in the UK, I will provide the following assuming availability:

Buy a REFURBISHED M2P now from an authorized dealer. In the US they are going for under $1300. That's the route that I went and I am 100% happy. The "refurbished" models are absolutely undistringuishable from "new". New body. New packaging, pretty much new everything as far as I can tell. Functions perfectly with no issues. Perhaps they are distributed as "overstock" to move excess units? It is possible to negotiate a package deal with a retailer for the refurb M2P and a fly more kit and save more money on the needed accessories.

To evaluate an immediate purchase vs a future purchase of an unpdated model, presumably the M3, one has to ask if the M2P will do everything needed going forward? Will the video standard be higher than 4k provided with the M2P or MA2? Will the PRACTICAL quality of the video or photo capability be substantially better than it is now? When will DJI release a M3? Is it practical for them to do so while the M2's are selling well and there is available stock? Will release of the M3 be delayed because of parts availability hampered by world-wide COVID as other industries have? We don't know.

The thing is that nobody knows what the new rules are going to be or how DJI will (be required to) implement them in the firmware. Are you sure that in your country any older drone that doesn't have retrocative RID will be forbidden? So either way, if you get a refurb M2P now, at least from a monetary standpoint you'll have something to fly now while hedging what may or may not be comeing. JMO

 

[ColoradoDB]

First, here is a link to a PDF for the executive summary of the remote ID rule: Click me

Second, I am a new drone pilot that just took the plunge and purchased an M2P, and I don't regret it.

Third, while I freely admit that I am a new drone pilot, I am not new to IT (professional software engineer) and I've spent time digging in to the specs and capabilities of the equipment. Based on that, I strongly believe that we have nothing to worry about. Before I state why I feel that way, here's the verbiage from section 1 of the summary:

•Broadcasts remote ID messages directly from the UA via radio frequency broadcast (likelyWi-Fi or Bluetooth technology), and broadcast will be compatible with existing personal wireless devices.

•Standard Remote ID message includes: UA ID (serial number of UA or session ID); latitude/longitude, altitude, and velocity of UA; latitude/longitude and altitude of Control Station; emergency status; and time mark.

•Remote ID message will be available to most personal wireless devices within range of the broadcast; however, correlating the serial number or session ID with the registrationdatabase will be limited to the FAA and can be made available to authorized law enforcement and national security personnel upon request.

•Range of the remote ID broadcast may vary, as each UA must be designed to maximize the range at which the broadcast can be received.

Based on what I have learned about the M2P, I think it is safe to say that the hardware is already there, so it should come down to just programming. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that most of the code is already there in the later firmware updates and just has to be enabled and tweaked as a needed to provide the necessary information; the manufacturers knew this was coming. I think that the worst case scenario would be a "motherboard" upgrade to the drone itself so that we would not have to mount an exterior device.

Having said all of that, I think our biggest concern is going to be power consumption and the impact on flight time. Indeed, the motors use the bulk of the power, but we'll now be transmitting more information and at regular intervals.

Dan

 

[Camino Ken]

First, here is a link to a PDF for the executive summary of the remote ID rule: Click me

Second, I am a new drone pilot that just took the plunge and purchased an M2P, and I don't regret it.

Third, while I freely admit that I am a new drone pilot, I am not new to IT (professional software engineer) and I've spent time digging in to the specs and capabilities of the equipment. Based on that, I strongly believe that we have nothing to worry about. Before I state why I feel that way, here's the verbiage from section 1 of the summary:

•Broadcasts remote ID messages directly from the UA via radio frequency broadcast (likelyWi-Fi or Bluetooth technology), and broadcast will be compatible with existing personal wireless devices.

•Standard Remote ID message includes: UA ID (serial number of UA or session ID); latitude/longitude, altitude, and velocity of UA; latitude/longitude and altitude of Control Station; emergency status; and time mark.

•Remote ID message will be available to most personal wireless devices within range of the broadcast; however, correlating the serial number or session ID with the registrationdatabase will be limited to the FAA and can be made available to authorized law enforcement and national security personnel upon request.

•Range of the remote ID broadcast may vary, as each UA must be designed to maximize the range at which the broadcast can be received.

Based on what I have learned about the M2P, I think it is safe to say that the hardware is already there, so it should come down to just programming. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that most of the code is already there in the later firmware updates and just has to be enabled and tweaked as a needed to provide the necessary information; the manufacturers knew this was coming. I think that the worst case scenario would be a "motherboard" upgrade to the drone itself so that we would not have to mount an exterior device.

Having said all of that, I think our biggest concern is going to be power consumption and the impact on flight time. Indeed, the motors use the bulk of the power, but we'll now be transmitting more information and at regular intervals.

Dan

Great summary and analysis. I agree with your assessment. I don’t think that power will be a concern at all. It is a very small text file transmitted once per sec. Since the controller and drone are already transmitting and receiving continuously at a very high data rate this extra should be inconsequential.

 

[ColoradoDB]

Great summary and analysis. I agree with your assessment. I don’t think that power will be a concern at all. It is a very small text file transmitted once per sec. Since the controller and drone are already transmitting and receiving continuously at a very high data rate this extra should be inconsequential.

Hi Ken, thanks for the reply. If its just a small amount of info once-per-second then I agree that it should be negligible.

 

[Mitch]

I don’t really trust DJI would make the feature available for the M2P even if it is possible. Their interest is to sell new drones.

 

[BigAl07]

Would you buy an M2P at roughly it’s present full price now (roughly $1600)with remote id on distant horizon?

Absolutely I would (and DID). I am the proud owner of a shiny brand new M2P and look forward to many hundreds of hours of use out of it before and after 2023ish.

 

[ColoradoDB]

I don’t really trust DJI would make the feature available for the M2P even if it is possible. Their interest is to sell new drones.

Sure, but I'd hope they are also interested in customer retention. This situation reminds me of the early days of HD video before the standards had been completed. Mitsubishi was making rear-projection HD TV's at that time and stated that once the standards were formalized that they "promised" to offer a "module" that could be retrofitted for a reasonable cost - it became know as the "Promise module" with a price tag of right at $1000 circa 2003. They really PO'd a lot of people, including me, and I haven't purchased another Mitsubishi product since.

 

[Brian Fist]

Honestly, there will have to be the ability to grandfather in older non-compliant drones. Even if there is a "retrofit" add-on available, it would have to integrate into the systems to glean the information needed, and if it doesn't integrate that is just a whole lot of electronics to add as a "retrofit" which would basically eliminate a lot of smaller drones (MM1/MM2/MA1/MA2)... Might even preclude the MP1/MP2 series as well.

Honestly, I think our older, non-compliant drones will go as follows: (and this route would basically make all existing non-compliant drones even more valuable)

a) They will require full registration of each non-compliant drone via serial number. If you don't get them registered they are considered "illegal to fly". Basically, that is just to be sure that if you end up causing an accident you are held accountable.

b) You cannot sell or transfer a drone without it being approved. Heck, they may not even allow sales of drones if they are registered to an owner. Doubtful, but they would have to have some way to verify that a non-compliant drone is owned by someone new, and the original owner would have to be motivated to inform the FAA of the transfer, lest they be held accountable if a disaster happens.

c) For these legacy drones they may even require a remote "kill" or "return-to-home" that can be activated via law enforcement or some other authority to force them out of the air as a "last resort". Again, hard to enforce and basically just as questionable as adding telemetry payloads as auxillary devices to existing non-compliant models.


If that doesn't happen, then they may just ground all non-compliant drones as just that, non-compliant and not-able to be flown.

In either case, it is obvious that they are in full "nanny" mode, wanting to be able to identify who is doing what in our shared airspace. Not that I blame them, but totally kills the idea of a drones being "fun". Imagine if they did the same thing to quads or dirt-bikes that are ridden off-road. It wouldn't be anywhere near as fun. Again, not saying that is such a bad thing, since it is obvious (by the pure amount of totally ridiculous youtube posts by irresponsible drone pilots show alone) that "people" in general cannot be trusted.,

It does make getting into drones as a business a much steeper slope. Regardless of what people say, but I bet a whole lot of people that ended up getting 107 licenses and are doing drones commercially for profit started out with just a recreational (or even no FAA registration at all) to begin with. I know at least a dozen or so people that are doing it that got in like that. After they knew it was profitable, or a drone loss or a liability "close-call" they all wizened up and got their 107s as well as proper insurance coverage. A few even used that as the benchmark to deciding that they couldn't make it a viable enough business to support their families and went job hunting. Point being that it is obvious that there is a now a "wall of admission" being established to getting into drones commercially that was always there under the guise of "you had better not get caught without" situation that is now going to be a firm "you WILL get caught" if you don't.

Again, I am sure that the big issue here is not the drone enthusiasts, but the irresponsible drone "wanna-be" that wants to get more likes and views online, as well as a healthy push from big dollar interests such as Amazon and others that want to get into drones for commercial interests. Too bad the rest of us are getting caught in the middle, since we are the ones that allowed companies like DJI to get as big as they are to have the opportunities they have, which usually means we are also the ones to pay the price for their success by being left-behind and disregarded. Just look at all the early Apple adopters. Basically "fools every one" viewed by Apple for making them successful.

 

[anotherlab]

I don’t really trust DJI would make the feature available for the M2P even if it is possible. Their interest is to sell new drones.

I think DJI would enable RID for any drone that can transmit a Wi-Fi Broadcast message. If you own a Mavic and they do enable RID, you will be looking for a new drone. You will already be unhappy with DJI and will have a bias for any brand that is not DJI. They would want to avoid that. They would rather have you buy a next gen Mavic when your current one is done or dead then take the chance that you would buy a drone from a competitor.

 

[Brian Fist]

I may add, I have had a P4P v1 for the past 3 years, but I just last month acquired a pair of DJI Goggles and a Mavic Air 1, two weeks ago I got a brand new Mavic 2 Zoom and just a few days ago I got a "basically new" Mavic 2 Pro. I also just ordered a Tripltek 1200nits tablet for use with these drones and plan on doing quite a bit flying myself as well as my older kids getting into piloting them also.

I am still on the fence about getting a smart controller for use with the the Mavics, but I guess that will be determined by how much I just want to "grab and go" once nicer weather comes around.

 

[KingRat]

First, here is a link to a PDF for the executive summary of the remote ID rule: Click me

Second, I am a new drone pilot that just took the plunge and purchased an M2P, and I don't regret it.

Third, while I freely admit that I am a new drone pilot, I am not new to IT (professional software engineer) and I've spent time digging in to the specs and capabilities of the equipment. Based on that, I strongly believe that we have nothing to worry about. Before I state why I feel that way, here's the verbiage from section 1 of the summary:

•Broadcasts remote ID messages directly from the UA via radio frequency broadcast (likelyWi-Fi or Bluetooth technology), and broadcast will be compatible with existing personal wireless devices.

•Standard Remote ID message includes: UA ID (serial number of UA or session ID); latitude/longitude, altitude, and velocity of UA; latitude/longitude and altitude of Control Station; emergency status; and time mark.

•Remote ID message will be available to most personal wireless devices within range of the broadcast; however, correlating the serial number or session ID with the registrationdatabase will be limited to the FAA and can be made available to authorized law enforcement and national security personnel upon request.

•Range of the remote ID broadcast may vary, as each UA must be designed to maximize the range at which the broadcast can be received.

Based on what I have learned about the M2P, I think it is safe to say that the hardware is already there, so it should come down to just programming. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that most of the code is already there in the later firmware updates and just has to be enabled and tweaked as a needed to provide the necessary information; the manufacturers knew this was coming. I think that the worst case scenario would be a "motherboard" upgrade to the drone itself so that we would not have to mount an exterior device.

Having said all of that, I think our biggest concern is going to be power consumption and the impact on flight time. Indeed, the motors use the bulk of the power, but we'll now be transmitting more information and at regular intervals.

Dan

That just sounds like AIS currently available for any liesure boat and required for coded craft..... current technology (that I know nothing about other than what I see on the radar screen!) A small AIS transmitter unit doesn't cost that much and it wires in to the NMEA2000 system, so can be retro fitted to any boat along with existing NMEA compliant, or new navionics.

Nothing much to get worked up about - it just means your drone will appear as a blip on any control tower radar, or aircraft radar that you are in range of - alongside that blip will be the description of the target, speed, course and any other relevent information that another pilot can use for course decision making.

If the target becomes of interest, through close proximity to something sensitive, another aircraft or location, then deeper information can be gleaned - for instance a ship will transmit on its AIS the name of the ship, port and time of departure, course heading, speed, port destination, cargo or passenger numbers. Any other relevent information, perhaps the cargo is hazardous. AIS = Automatic Identity System (or Signal).