Advice for a novice drone operator looking for best stills image quality.

[jwischka]

Not as nice of a locale, but here's an example from this evening that (hopefully) the saturation patrol can get behind. This is a literal 2-minute edit, with DNG posted alongside.

First, SOOC:


Lightroom shows a bit of clipping on import in the brightest highlight regions, and only minor clipping of shadow regions in the bottom right of the image (shadow clipping not shown):


Pulling the exposure down 5EV does in fact show that the red channel is clipped, but that we've still got enough detail to probably work with:



I would hypothesize that we're probably benefiting from the 16-bit signal path here. It's hardly a definitive judgment and isn't based on any real solid data, but again, I think the M2P is going to be more forgiving in the highlights than in the shadows (more on which below).

At this point I applied the following edits: 1) a -2EV radial filter on the sky with a +35 clarity (to bring out some of the texture of the clouds) and 2) a +2EV radial filter on the ground with a +35 clarity to make the shadows look less stupid and glowy:



There is, unfortunately, a bit more noise in the shadows than I'd like, even at only a 2EV push:



It's not catastrophically bad (particularly given no NR in LR), but again, it's not really on the level of what you'd expect from a modern SLR (or even a 4-year-old M43 ILC).

For bonus points, this is a 1/5s exposure... and I consider the lack of blur to be nothing short of amazing, even given the relatively short focal length (10.26mm) of the lens. Quite impressive that it can hold that steady, even in a calm night.

Download the original DNG here.

 

[noosaguy]

Yes I see what you mean but why not use the 5 shot AEB feature? It will look after your highlights and open the shadows more without introducing noise. There's few cameras you can pull detail out of those sort of shadows without introducing noise. I reckon it would be much the same with my Canon 80D and even with my 5D III to a lesser extent. The only way you can hold both ends is exposure bracketing and using luminance masking (or at the least HDR). It's unfortunate the M2P 5 shot bracket only covers a couple of stops, on an extreme high contrast image like that I'd want 5 stops.
PS: Nice detail though.

 

[jwischka]

Yes I see what you mean but why not use the 5 shot AEB feature? It will look after your highlights and open the shadows more without introducing noise. There's few cameras you can pull detail out of those sort of shadows without introducing noise. I reckon it would be much the same with my Canon 80D and even with my 5D III to a lesser extent. The only way you can hold both ends is exposure bracketing and using luminance masking (or at the least HDR). It's unfortunate the M2P 5 shot bracket only covers a couple of stops, on an extreme high contrast image like that I'd want 5 stops.
PS: Nice detail though.

You're assuming I didn't . This is the +0.7 bracket from a 5 AEB stack. As you mention, the 0.7 EV bracket size on the M2P is a huge limitation - like you, I would want +1EV at a minimum, and probably +2EV given the (relatively) limited DR of the sensor.

For grins... HDR merge of the 5AEB stack in LR, then stitched... LR manages to not match control points on the right side of the image, so we've got something that looks a little different in terms of perspective:

"SOOC" (no settings applied):



And with similar settings applied (-1EV up top, +3EV down below +35 clarity):



The problem in this set, and I fear many others with the M2P, unfortunately, is that the darkest bracketed set still clips the highlights (barely, but definitively when looking at the underlying RAW values), and the brightest image doesn't offer you a lot more shadow detail compared to the best ETTR single frame image. Also, it's important to remember that any "true" HDR processing or merging of exposures can introduce extra noise into the shot, though how much depends on how the noise is distributed. That said, shadow noise in the 1:1 crop is a bit better in this particular instance, helped by the 1/4s exposure.

Obviously there are scenes (I've shot plenty) where no camera is going to be able to get the whole thing in a single exposure - my D850 and A7Rmk2 included... but I'd wager a fair amount this scene isn't one of them. Again, I'm sure some people will take that as a criticism, but I don't really intend it to be. I think this is really a pretty impressive result for something that flies. I think the M2P is really pretty amazing for what it is. But in my initial experience it's a little less forgiving than even other 1" sensors I've used, particularly in the shadows - maybe a little more forgiving than other 1" sensors I've used in the highlights.

 

[Bussty]

I have a mavic air but like you am more interested in photography than video and so uograde to the m2p. The camera quality is stunning for a drone. With the aparture you have a lot of control over the image. The drone is extremely stable and being a drone you can get to angle ww that otherwise would be impossible. Its never going to rival a dlsr bit its better than a high end phone camera. These two pics were taken on the maiden flight. I can send you the raw files if you want to check them out. View attachment 48526View attachment 48527

Love the mood in these, would love to see the DNG!! Cheers

 

[Garritynet]

I have purchased and am currently awaiting my Pro 2 and I sure am glad to see people talking about photos in this forum!

From my own research I know a lot of people don't think the Pro 2 camera is impressive, and it's not, but just give me something with control over exposure and a lens that's decent and I can make it work. The lens is cheap but any decent lens is sharp enough for most uses and all but the most expensive lenses are a little bit soft wide open, better when stopped down and then a bit soft again at the smallest apertures and its been my experience that sharpness is something that most people only notice when they're looking at their own photos.

People have been taking great photos for a hundred years with worse cameras than what is on the Pro 2 and I have met more than a few people with extremely nice cameras that take awful pictures. That said I haven't met anyone who can fly, much less any flying photographers, and that's where the value of the Pro 2 is for me.

 

[noosaguy]

Does this not contain enough detail?

 

[Bussty]

Does this not contain enough detail?

View attachment 48678

Noosaguy I think you have been lucky and got a "goodin" I have always thought this image was stunning. However over on DJI Forums there are a few with troubling lens softness DJI FORUM LINK
Some have even sent back MP2's got a replacement and still not good. So that's a worry. This image though looks crisp everywhere!

 

[noosaguy]

Perhaps but I doubt it. The image above was shot at F2.3 at 1/320 sec @100 ISO. I have noticed some edge softness but nothing to get my knickers in a knot about because mast small sensor cameras exhibit that to some degree. Still, as I've constantly argued on these pages, the M2P is a compromise across the board, perhaps particularly with the camera, but the overall package is brilliant IMO.

 

[GeraldV]

Love the mood in these, would love to see the DNG!! Cheers

PM me your email and I will send them over.

 

[Bussty]

PM me your email and I will send them over.

Thanks Gerald great to see some RAW footage. You too seem to have nice a nice sharp lens on that MP2. What RAW converter are you using. I'm an Affinity Photo guy which opens them but for RAW really enjoy using DXO Photolab but that can't open them yet. Thanks again

 

[billyinbondi]

Some of you guys (including dtp who has since deleted their post) need to realize that comparison doesn't necessarily mean criticism. As I mentioned in a reply to noosaguy, the point of comparisons - at least as far as I'm concerned - is to figure out how best to use the M2P, not to put it down. Too many people seem to be overly defensive about their purchase, and hence attacking anyone who doesn't give the M2P 5 stars for its image quality. I'm more interested in learning how to use it to the best of its abilities.

This weekend I was able to get it out and shoot in some real conditions. My initial impressions are favorable. There's no question the sensor is capable of some decent images. The attached images are first-cuts of processing I did on the plane on the way back, but give some idea of what the sensor is capable of. My initial impression in real world conditions is that the M2P may be more forgiving with highlights than shadows - I don't have any hard data on that at the moment, so I put it out there somewhat cautiously. I was impressed, though, by how much I was able to pull the highlights back, generally, without losing detail.

 

[mbre]

Hey MBR thanks for your comment. I'm surprised you don't recognise it, it's Uluru in outback NT Australia. It used to be called Ayer's Rock and it is an iconic tourist attraction in Australia. To give it scale, it is 350m high and has a 9.5km circumference.

Thanks, noosaguy.
I’d heard of Ayers Rock but never seen a pic - awesome. Looks like it’s a long way from everywhere in Aus, but when I’m next down under, i will definitely have my M2P with me and make the trip to Uluru.

 

[noosaguy]

Thanks, noosaguy.
I’d heard of Ayers Rock but never seen a pic - awesome. Looks like it’s a long way from everywhere in Aus, but when I’m next down under, i will definitely have my M2P with me and make the trip to Uluru.

Sorry about the delay in getting back to you here, I somehow missed your post. The image above was from A Robinson R44 chopper, not my M2P unfortunately. Uluru is the largest monolith in the world and from memory it's about 10km around the base. It is without doubt one of my favourite places on earth (and my wife and I have visited almost 40 countries over the years) and it is extremely isolated but because of the tourist numbers, there is a good range of accomodation and restaurants etc. The problem is however, the whole area is now a national park and it might be difficult to get permission to fly there. Don't let that deter you though because I guarantee you would love the place and I guarantee it will take your breath away. Hmmm! I'm gonna book and go again.

By the way, here is another cluster monolith structure nearby. It's much larger than Uluru and over 500 metres high. It's called Kata Tjuta (previously The Olgas) and it's absolutely spectacular.

 

[hjones62]

Does this not contain enough detail?

View attachment 48678

Plenty of detail here!!

 

[GeraldV]

Thanks Gerald great to see some RAW footage. You too seem to have nice a nice sharp lens on that MP2. What RAW converter are you using. I'm an Affinity Photo guy which opens them but for RAW really enjoy using DXO Photolab but that can't open them yet. Thanks again

Sorry Bussty I missed your question. I use Lightroom for processing the RAW images.

 

[sfmthd]

chiming in here rather than making a new thread!

i just picked up a m2 pro, and am enjoying it a lot. it's an incredibly impressive little bit of hardware, amazingly well integrated and so far reliable.

i'm a lifelong nikon guy, currently shooting a Z7 and D850 with all the giant lenses and so on. i also fly a heavily custom DJI S900+E1200+N3+LB2+T3 gimbal which can take my D850 and any of the smaller primes (usually a 20 f/1.8) up and get absolutely crisp high quality stills, just like the camera does on the ground. but, it's an 8KG beast, noisy as hell, not the most reliable thing in the world, and i would never ever use it somewhere that a crash would endanger someone, their property, or cost me $10k worth of gear.

so on that front, the m2p wins. it's so much fun to just open a tiny little bag, unfold, plug my phone in, and fly!

with a 1" sensor, i wasn't expecting great high ISO or great DR. but i am surprised and disappointed in the sharpness (or lack thereof) of the stills. sometimes the central region is good, but the edges and corners are incredibly blurry. changing shutter speed and aperture don't have much effect. seems to vary between bad and awful. perhaps i'm doing something wrong, perhaps my expectations are too high... i was assuming the quality would be the same as any modern 20MP 1" sensor camera. appreciate any thoughts!

 

[SteveCA]

I’ve been away from this thread for awhile. After flying like crazy for the past three months I’ve concluded that the camera on my MP 2 Pro is good enough to get the shot. The DR is several stops below my Nikon D800, no where near as forgiving when pulling out shadow detail, but workable with manual 1 stop adjustments for HDR.

What has blown me away is the ability to get sharp 4 second exposures. Some folks have gotten sharp 8 second exposures. That opens up a whole world of new shooting possibilities. Instead of upping ISO I increase shutter duration.

corners can be soft at 2.8 but not bad at 4.0. 4.0 is also sharper so combined with the ability to hold steady for several seconds, I shoot at 4.0 and increase shutter duration while keeping ISO at 100-200.

To get bigger images, I fly closer and Manually shoot panos.

While I would love to have the quality that my full frame cameras have, They can’t fly and even if I rent a Heli, I doubt I could hold my nikon still enough for a sharp shot in low light.

I am a happy MP 2 Pro owner!

Here is my 4 second shot, straight from the camera with minor iphone photo edits.

 

[noosaguy]

chiming in here rather than making a new thread!

i just picked up a m2 pro, and am enjoying it a lot. it's an incredibly impressive little bit of hardware, amazingly well integrated and so far reliable.

i'm a lifelong nikon guy, currently shooting a Z7 and D850 with all the giant lenses and so on. i also fly a heavily custom DJI S900+E1200+N3+LB2+T3 gimbal which can take my D850 and any of the smaller primes (usually a 20 f/1.8) up and get absolutely crisp high quality stills, just like the camera does on the ground. but, it's an 8KG beast, noisy as ****, not the most reliable thing in the world, and i would never ever use it somewhere that a crash would endanger someone, their property, or cost me $10k worth of gear.

so on that front, the m2p wins. it's so much fun to just open a tiny little bag, unfold, plug my phone in, and fly!

with a 1" sensor, i wasn't expecting great high ISO or great DR. but i am surprised and disappointed in the sharpness (or lack thereof) of the stills. sometimes the central region is good, but the edges and corners are incredibly blurry. changing shutter speed and aperture don't have much effect. seems to vary between bad and awful. perhaps i'm doing something wrong, perhaps my expectations are too high... i was assuming the quality would be the same as any modern 20MP 1" sensor camera. appreciate any thoughts!

I've found soft corners on my M2P as well. I use Lightroom Classic CC and PSCC for processing and I'm still not convinced about the (so called) built in lens correction. Sometimes it says it is auto corrected and others not? Still, as you've pointed out, a drone with a 1" sensor and micro camera (even if it is Hasselblad) will never compete with a full frame or APSC sensor DSLR when it comes to DR and detail. Nor will the fixed focus (tiny) lens compete with dedicated DSLR lenses. So it's a compromise for sure but for me, where pretty much these days the biggest image i'm likely to produce is 12" x 12" HD photo books at 250 dpi or monitor sized images at 72 dpi. If I needed to produce larger, sharper images for prints, I think I'd shoot multiple image panos and overlap extensively to try and eliminate the corner softness. My two bobs worth.

 

[dannybgoode]

Taken as a the package as a whole the M2P is incredible.

I too have a full frame dslr (5D mkiii in my case) and decent glass and of course it gives outright better EQ.

But then I can’t take 8” exposures at 400’ with the Canon. 8” and completely stable - incredible. Opens up different opportunities.

As I’ve said before, there is so much more to a good photo than the IQ. In fact I’d say IQ is the least important factor. If you can take a good photo you’ll be happy with the M2P.

 

[dannybgoode]

8 second exposure. Think about that for a moment. That’s looong and completely stable.