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Aircraft Yaw CW - Neutral Controller

Amarand

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Location
Galloway, Ohio, USA
Problem? Aircraft has a propensity to yaw clockwise with hands off the sticks

Was unit in a crash? No

What have you tried so far?: Full calibration in an electronic and metal-free backyard on grass (compass, IMU, RC, gimbal)

What device are you using? Mavic Air RC with iPhone Xs Max

What firmware are you running ( aircraft, remote controller)? Most current

What Go app version are you using? Latest version in App Store (4.3.20)

Any modification? Stock unit with Polar Pro landing gear


Did you change anything or install any apps? I have only used the DJI GO 4 APP with this aircraft

Do you have a video or pictures of the problem?

(I hope this is what I was supposed to do for the log file!)
 
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Wow it was panning that much with no stick input? You said counter-clockwise but the video seems to be clockwise?

A few points of clarification:
  • You mentioned you did all calibrations in metal free backyard on grass? IMU calibration should be done on a cold drone, usually indoors, on a completely level surface (check it in all directions with a level).
  • Did you try this without the PolarPro leg extensions? Also did you calibrate the IMU without those leg extensions?
 
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Wow it was panning that much with no stick input? You said counter-clockwise but the video seems to be clockwise?

A few points of clarification:
  • You mentioned you did all calibrations in metal free backyard on grass? IMU calibration should be done on a cold drone, usually indoors, on a completely level surface (check it in all directions with a level).
  • Did you try this without the PolarPro leg extensions? Also did you calibrate the IMU without those leg extensions?

Oops! Let me change that to "clockwise." Yes. Clockwise. ;)

Oh, yes, sorry. IMU was completed inside, on a level surface, with my computers and electronic devices off, Apple Watch not on my wrist, and the controller on the other side of me just to be safe.

I didn't try this without the leg extensions because without them, the gimbal tends to hit things when I'm first turning it on. I calibrated the IMU with the leg extensions.

So are we thinking the leg extensions might be an issue? (I realize we're trying to troubleshoot, and removing any non-stock variable from the equation is a good 'next-step.')

The camera/gimbal is so close to the ground without landing gear. Is there any other landing gear that is recommended? The company states that it raises "the camera 1-inch off the ground, keeping it away from dirt, dust, and sand." Which I like. Lifetime warranty. If this is the cause, I'll be speaking with them, obviously.

Are you recommending fully-calibrate and test fly without the landing gear?
 
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Oh, yes, sorry. IMU was completed inside, on a level surface, with my computers and electronic devices off, Apple Watch not on my wrist, and the controller on the other side of me just to be safe.
OK great. Sure doesn't hurt with all the precautions you took, but the metallic/magnetic precautions are only necessary for a compass calibration. The IMU calibration is for the gyroscope and accelerometer, both of which should not be affected by metal nearby. I do like the approach of better safe than sorry though. Thumbswayup

I didn't try this without the leg extensions because without them, the gimbal tends to hit things when I'm first turning it on. I calibrated the IMU with the leg extensions.

So are we thinking the leg extensions might be an issue? (I realize we're trying to troubleshoot, and removing any non-stock variable from the equation is a good 'next-step.')
I have a Mavic Air as well and yes the camera/gimbal does sit very close to the ground. Can't even take off properly from short grass. In those cases I either use a landing pad or hand launch. The landing pad is super easy to carry around and use. I have two kinds...the pop up fabric one and the fold up hard surface type. For low sitting drones like the MA, the hard surface one works great. Try it. The other thing I sometimes use is my hard carrying case.

Yes this is a troubleshooting exercise first and so I would want to eliminate any outside variables. It probably is not the leg extensions but you never know until you try. Could be some really oddball balance issue. I would take them off, calibrate the IMU without them, and then try flying without them. I don't think you would need compass calibration again unless those leg extensions somehow have some metal embedded in them? That would be really strange.

Other troubleshooting:
  • Try above steps without leg extensions first.
  • The MA can fly without the physical remote. Since you already did calibrate it, perhaps eliminate it from the equation as well? Switch over to hand gesture mode and see if the yaw still occurs. **Proceed at your own risk here** I never use hand gestures because I like the physical link to the controller.
  • If you know someone local with a MA, perhaps see if you can try with their controller?
  • Perhaps post your logs here? The experts can have a look. If the logs show stick input then you know for sure it's the remote. If there is no stick input reflected then you know it's the drone. Plus we may get some other good information as to what is going on.
A few more questions too:
  • When did this start? Did anything happen right before?
  • How do you land properly with this extreme yaw?
  • If you can land successfully, have you tried setting all RTH values properly and then turning off the RC to see if it stops yawing and returns properly? Again a potential risky proposition but I'm trying to take the remote out of the equation.
 
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  • Perhaps post your logs here? The experts can have a look. If the logs show stick input then you know for sure it's the remote. If there is no stick input reflected then you know it's the drone. Plus we may get some other good information as to what is going on.

Before I address the other concerns, I wanted to address this one. Is the PhantomHelp log viewer link I included in the original post not the same as posting my logs? I saved out the .txt file, so I can absolutely share that raw data as well, if you think it would help?
 
OK great. Sure doesn't hurt with all the precautions you took, but the metallic/magnetic precautions are only necessary for a compass calibration. The IMU calibration is for the gyroscope and accelerometer, both of which should not be affected by metal nearby. I do like the approach of better safe than sorry though. Thumbswayup

Good to know. IMU needs to be flat and level, electronics/metal not as much of a concern. Compass needs to be somewhat isolated. I think the center of the backyard is perfect for this. I'd like to rebuild my back deck (right now, that's where I take-off and land, but it's not really level, and it's fairly small) so I have a 100% level, wood area to take off and land.

I have a Mavic Air as well and yes the camera/gimbal does sit very close to the ground. Can't even take off properly from short grass. In those cases I either use a landing pad or hand launch. The landing pad is super easy to carry around and use. I have two kinds...the pop up fabric one and the fold up hard surface type. For low sitting drones like the MA, the hard surface one works great. Try it. The other thing I sometimes use is my hard carrying case.

I have one of the blue/orange pop-up landing pads, but it's soft, and I feel weird throwing it in the grass. The "deck" is actually perfect for takeoffs and landings, but I need to be careful less about yaw (which is just rotation), and more about lateral movement (left/right, forward/backward). I've switched over to automatic landings, versus pulling directly down and holding, because it can be a "hands-off sticks" landing, and the drone/controller seems to do a fairly good job of landing straight down - after I force the landing, because it never seems to think the surface is good enough for a landing.

Yes this is a troubleshooting exercise first and so I would want to eliminate any outside variables. It probably is not the leg extensions but you never know until you try. Could be some really oddball balance issue. I would take them off, calibrate the IMU without them, and then try flying without them. I don't think you would need compass calibration again unless those leg extensions somehow have some metal embedded in them? That would be really strange.

Yup, so I think I should probably remove the landing gear, do a full IMU calibration without them, and then do a nice test flight to see if that resolves the issue. If it does, great! Then I can report the issue to the landing gear company (lifetime warranty) and see what they recommend. I don't think there's any metal in the landing gear - seems like they talked about two or three specific types of plastic. But who knows what's inside?

Other troubleshooting:
  • Try above steps without leg extensions first.
  • The MA can fly without the physical remote. Since you already did calibrate it, perhaps eliminate it from the equation as well? Switch over to hand gesture mode and see if the yaw still occurs. **Proceed at your own risk here** I never use hand gestures because I like the physical link to the controller.
  • If you know someone local with a MA, perhaps see if you can try with their controller?
  • Perhaps post your logs here? The experts can have a look. If the logs show stick input then you know for sure it's the remote. If there is no stick input reflected then you know it's the drone. Plus we may get some other good information as to what is going on.

  • Without leg extensions. (Next attempt.)
  • I haven't tried hand gesture mode yet. Maybe...at some point...I will? I'm Not A Fan of uncontrolled flying.
  • I don't know anyone locally with a MA, sadly. Perhaps I should find a club or something?
  • Let me know if I need to post my .txt log file, in addition to the link I already shared in the original post.
A few more questions too:
  • When did this start? Did anything happen right before?
  • How do you land properly with this extreme yaw?
  • If you can land successfully, have you tried setting all RTH values properly and then turning off the RC to see if it stops yawing and returns properly? Again a potential risky proposition but I'm trying to take the remote out of the equation.

  • I'm not sure when it first started, but it hasn't always done this. I've never had an official crash, but I sometimes bump into things, and there have been three occasions where I've slid into a tree, alwaysy a few feet above the ground, and it just falls to the ground. The tree in the front is surrounded by soft dirt and mulch, so relatively safe. I've hit the back porch railing slats once or twice, but that's more a prop issue (I replace the damaged ones), and that fall is, again, a foot or two, to wood. I've never crashed from higher than a few feet.
  • Well, once I'm over the deck, and things are centered, yaw doesn't matter, because it's rotating on its axis, and I'm landing 100% straight down. The yaw matters most when I'm trying to line up a shot, and by the time I press the button to take the picture, it's shifted enough that I can tell. Doesn't hurt as much with flying. But it is super annoying, and obviously less than ideal. Could be an issue, but it hasn't been a real flying issue yet, because I stay literally close to home for now.
  • I'm very nervous about RTH, because there's a huge bank of trees behind my house. I should probably do RTH testing, again and again, just so I know things work. I always "check the home point" and it's always correct on the map. But I also watched a Lynda.com video where the guy talks about the Mavic Pro, and how RTH sometimes has issues when you're flying close (what does close mean?) to the RTH point. What happens if the aircraft is 10' away from the RTH and 10' off the ground and it engages? Does it fly up to 100' or whatever? No upward sensors. It'd hit a tree. I worry a bit (a lot?) about that. But I do see where taking the RC out of the equation would help.
Real quick:

1) When folks look at "the logs," they're looking at what the aircraft is "receiving" from the RC, and the aircraft is recording that, correct? Or is that from my phone/RC? I mean, if the RC is sending "yaw left" would that show in the logs? Or is it more the aircraft is RECEIVING "yaw left?" I don't 100% know how the logs really work yet. Sorry.

2) I bought the MA last year, flew it a little, then gave up. Made me too anxious (worried about crashing, worried about fly-aways, worried about whatever) so I just put it away. This year, starting in late May, I decided to fly the drone literally every day. I made a checklist, and sure enough, I'd flown the drone locally every single day in June, and am keeping up the streak in July. I think it's good for practice, and it also helps with my flying anxiety (doing something successfully every day helps tell my brain that everything's okay and there's nothing to worry about). Flying every day has helped me tremendously, but last week, there was a flight where I sent it 20' up and 20' away (complete unobstructed VLOS) to take a picture of a tall tree, and it lost connection. It just sat there, 20' up and 20' away, flashing. No connection. I freaked out, and it really sucked for me. But I tried to remember to take deep breaths, turn off the RC, turn the RC back on, eventually regained control, but I quickly landed it, and had to take a break. Super sucked. So now that's one thing I worry about: loss of connection, what happens, how to deal with it.

So for me, a slight yaw isn't anything nearly as stressful as, say, a lost connection, a fly away, a non-responsive MA just going where it wants to go...but it's still mildly concerning.
 
Here’s my “do something every day” calendar. The brown dot at the top of each day is flying the drone.

4d6ee00c63814197c0a9c8a885cde4ac.jpg


For those curious.
 
Before I address the other concerns, I wanted to address this one. Is the PhantomHelp log viewer link I included in the original post not the same as posting my logs? I saved out the .txt file, so I can absolutely share that raw data as well, if you think it would help?
Oops, I did not see the link there initially.

Just had a very quick look. We have better experts here for logs. I do see two things:
  • You took off with close to zero satellite coverage. This puts you in ATTI mode immediately so you need to control the drone fully. As a general rule of thumb, I never leave the ground until I have GPS lock and my Home point is established.
  • I see that most of the time the RC rudder is at zero which would seem to indicate a properly calibrated and functional controller. However at times when the drone is yawing, I also see stick input (left stick offset to the right). Were you not making these stick inputs?
 
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I have one of the blue/orange pop-up landing pads, but it's soft, and I feel weird throwing it in the grass.
Yep, tall grass still gives you a lumpy surface with the pop-up pads. That's where the solid pad comes in very handy. If most of your flights are from your backyard, you probably have lots of handy items that you could use as a landing pad. A ceramic tile, a big flat folded-up cardboard box, a welcome mat, etc...
I've switched over to automatic landings, versus pulling directly down and holding, because it can be a "hands-off sticks" landing, and the drone/controller seems to do a fairly good job of landing straight down - after I force the landing, because it never seems to think the surface is good enough for a landing.
Personally I hate the landing protection feature. I like flying my drones right down to the ground but that's my preference. I learned to fly with a P3P and it had to be flown down to the ground. I find it more precise and a softer landing.
I haven't tried hand gesture mode yet. Maybe...at some point...I will? I'm Not A Fan of uncontrolled flying.
Fully and totally agree with you there. I always like to be in control of the drone with my remote. I have never tried any hand gestures with either my Spark or my MA.
I'm not sure when it first started, but it hasn't always done this. I've never had an official crash, but I sometimes bump into things, and there have been three occasions where I've slid into a tree, alwaysy a few feet above the ground, and it just falls to the ground. The tree in the front is surrounded by soft dirt and mulch, so relatively safe. I've hit the back porch railing slats once or twice, but that's more a prop issue (I replace the damaged ones), and that fall is, again, a foot or two, to wood. I've never crashed from higher than a few feet.
I think even minor crashes (is there such a thing? ;)) should be mentioned when having issues. Who knows if something got thrown off and you may need a repair.
Well, once I'm over the deck, and things are centered, yaw doesn't matter, because it's rotating on its axis, and I'm landing 100% straight down.
I've never landed any drone while it is in constant yaw, but I was assuming that with enough yaw, there would be a good chance of flipping it. I'm pretty sure that a Phantom with its higher CG, would probably flip if I tried to land it with that type of yaw.
I'm very nervous about RTH, because there's a huge bank of trees behind my house. I should probably do RTH testing, again and again, just so I know things work. I always "check the home point" and it's always correct on the map. But I also watched a Lynda.com video where the guy talks about the Mavic Pro, and how RTH sometimes has issues when you're flying close (what does close mean?) to the RTH point. What happens if the aircraft is 10' away from the RTH and 10' off the ground and it engages? Does it fly up to 100' or whatever? No upward sensors. It'd hit a tree. I worry a bit (a lot?) about that. But I do see where taking the RC out of the equation would help.
Rightly so. You should always know your surroundings and make sure all your RTH settings are properly set. If you are within 20 meters of your home point, the drone will just come down in place if RTH is triggered. If beyond 20 meters, it will rise to RTH altitude and then come back.
When folks look at "the logs," they're looking at what the aircraft is "receiving" from the RC, and the aircraft is recording that, correct? Or is that from my phone/RC? I mean, if the RC is sending "yaw left" would that show in the logs? Or is it more the aircraft is RECEIVING "yaw left?" I don't 100% know how the logs really work yet. Sorry.
Yes the logs show both what the AC is receiving from the RC and then what the AC does.
 
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Oops, I did not see the link there initially.

Just had a very quick look. We have better experts here for logs. I do see two things:
  • You took off with close to zero satellite coverage. This puts you in ATTI mode immediately so you need to control the drone fully. As a general rule of thumb, I never leave the ground until I have GPS lock and my Home point is established.
  • I see that most of the time the RC rudder is at zero which would seem to indicate a properly calibrated and functional controller. However at times when the drone is yawing, I also see stick input (left stick offset to the right). Were you not making these stick inputs?

I usually take off in ATTI, because it acquires satellites faster from the vantage point. There's the house, where I'm standing in the doorway, and then the back porch (very small - 5' square), and then the backyard, and then really big trees (which you can probably see in the Google 3D sideview on the log viewer web-site). So when I take off and hover, it grabs GPS very quickly. If I let it sit there, it takes a few minutes - meanwhile, the battery is ticking away slowly in idle mode.

Also, I live near (but not within range of) an untowered inactive airport, so DJI likes to throw the "do you agree" license agreement during that period as well. Always AFTER take-off. So I just take-off, let it hover, prompt me for that stupid airport agreement, and then wait for GPS to be acquired. I usually forgot to turn it back from Sport to P-mode, so I do that...and then once GPS turns green "Please check your home point on the map..." I switch it into Sport mode and start flying. If there's a problem, I just do a quick land, and if I have to shut off the motors (which I've never done before), it's landing on grass and soft ground, or the wood on my back porch, five feet of the ground.

Regarding the RC: there was a period where I was hovering, and shooting the YouTube video. 100% hands off for the entire duration of the video. 1:24. Near the tail-end of the flight. Then I landed. However, outside of that, yes, if I see the aircraft is yawing one way, I probably compensate by pressing the stick in the opposite direction to compensate? But obviously, I want to fix the underlying issue of unintented and consistent yaw in the wrong direction.
 
Yep, tall grass still gives you a lumpy surface with the pop-up pads. That's where the solid pad comes in very handy. If most of your flights are from your backyard, you probably have lots of handy items that you could use as a landing pad. A ceramic tile, a big flat folded-up cardboard box, a welcome mat, etc...

I'll need to do a little digging, to see if I can find something that will work well as a landing pad. But I'm also a fan of buying stuff that has patterns, so it can do a better job of aligning when landing. I guess that's a thing?

Personally I hate the landing protection feature. I like flying my drones right down to the ground but that's my preference. I learned to fly with a P3P and it had to be flown down to the ground. I find it more precise and a softer landing.

Is the "landing protection feature" something I can disable? Or is it something I should just go ahead and keep enabled, because it'll save me heartache in the future? It's annoying I have to "force landing" every time I try to land, but it also makes me think "do I really want to land here?" even though the answer is generally yes.

Fully and totally agree with you there. I always like to be in control of the drone with my remote. I have never tried any hand gestures with either my Spark or my MA.

I think the hand gestures are a gimmick, and I'm not sure if they're 100% FAA compliant. Are you really the RPIC if you don't have positive control of the aircraft? I don't mind the idea of gestures, as long as they're also paired with an active RC that can take over, but I think gesture mode and RC mode are mutually exclusive. So.... Meh.

BUT, I think gesture mode has some safety features and limitations, maybe? Like the aircraft won't go a certain maximum height or distance away, perhaps? I don't know. I just don't trust it. Like Bones doesn't like transporting.

I think even minor crashes (is there such a thing? ;)) should be mentioned when having issues. Who knows if something got thrown off and you may need a repair.

See, to me a "crash" is when you are flying at speed, and you hit something. For example: if you fly too close to a cell phone tower and it scrambles your electronics and the drone plummets to the ground. That's a crash to me.

Or you get stuck on a guy-wire and the drone plummets to the ground.

But all of the "crashes" I've had, have been soft enough, and low enough to the ground, (and close enough to me), that it just looks like the blades hit the bark of the tree, or the wood of the back railing, and it just falls to the ground. So maybe those are crashes - and I've had about 4 or 5 of them in the past two years - but all but one have been within a foot or two from the surface, so nothing major. I've dropped my iPhone from a greater height.

No cracks in the case, the motor casings, very few scratches. Things seem intact? I take very good care of the Mavic Air. It gets cleaned/inspected almost every flight, with Q-Tips, shop towels and Windex.

I've never landed any drone while it is in constant yaw, but I was assuming that with enough yaw, there would be a good chance of flipping it. I'm pretty sure that a Phantom with its higher CG, would probably flip if I tried to land it with that type of yaw.

The yaw is probably more visually pronounced due to the wide angle lens effect. It has a period very similar to a second-hand on a watch. One revolution per minute. Or so. Maybe a little slower.

Rightly so. You should always know your surroundings and make sure all your RTH settings are properly set. If you are within 20 meters of your home point, the drone will just come down in place if RTH is triggered. If beyond 20 meters, it will rise to RTH altitude and then come back.

Ahh, so is the "if you are within 20 meters of your home point" rule something that's well-documented and tested with the Mavic Air? Because as mentioned, the Lynda.com instructor guy said to be careful with RTH too close to the home point. But like you said, that seems similar to what he said: "It'll just land where it is." And maybe that's okay? Maybe that's not okay? I do need to do some testing, out in the open, and when it's not 100°F outside.

Yes the logs show both what the AC is receiving from the RC and then what the AC does.

Ahh good. Hope those help a little.
 
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The yaw behavior looks fine until around 400 seconds, after which there does appear to be an offset in the rudder stick input, which leads to a steady CW rotation:

77386

Since it starts mid-way through the flight it seems unlikely to be a stick calibration issue or a magnetic connector. It's very steady, which rather rules out an external magnetic field. I'd suspect a faulty (sticky?) stick module.
 
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