Beware of Temp NFZ Activating while your in the Air. Drone downed by DJI

[sar104]

I don’t want to split hairs about what “safe” means, but there are better solutions than abruptly landing wherever a flying thing happens to be overtop of.

I'm sure - such as completely ignoring the issue and continuing to fly, which I suspect is what many people would like to do. The desire for removing DJI geofencing is blatantly not just so that these fine, law-abiding pilots who inadvertently, through no fault of their own, find themselves in restricted airspace and need to land asap.

RTH would be a nice option if the aircraft were not over a mile away, and so flying both illegally beyond VLOS and in a TFR. I'm sorry but I have zero sympathy here.

 

[sar104]

Well... It is his choice, to abide the law or not. I believe that anyone deserves to have a choice, and it does not mean to be free of consequences if choices were done poorly. Not to know how your vehicle operates and yet to fly it is one of such choices. To blame manufacturer for consequences of your actions is also, well, not very productive, but, here we go into finger pointing stage, and it is pointless.

I see your point here, but, i remain at my opinion on this topic, i do not want any big brother logic enforced in my robots.

And that's fine given that you don't intend to break the law. I'm just not sure it's morally defensible to suggest those solutions to people looking to fly illegally.

 

[paulatkin73]

And that's fine given that you don't intend to break the law. I'm just not sure it's morally defensible to suggest those solutions to people looking to fly illegally.

Well... Perhaps. Still, one deserves to have a choice. Always. And i find it very disheartening to see how more and more people here somehow get into thinking that it is safer and better to be restricted, for the sake of the better good. I was born in the system like that, and all i can say - as soon as you will accept the right of the system to make choices for you - you will get a great choice to become, eventually, a fertilizer material in the gulag. There is no middle ground here, you are either free to choose, or not.
And god be my witness, American society these days is in the great state of massive delusion, with a poison of socialism penetrating it everywhere. Laws based on restrictions of your rights are never going to prevent future crimes. It will only restrict rights of those who already choose to comply. Evil will always find a way to bypass. Only proper detection and enforcement of the punishment will correct evil.
All you will get for letting somebody else to choose for you will be them choosing to get more benefits for themselves, and making you pay for that.

 

[RayOZ]

I don't think many are aware that when temp NFZ activated, and of there drone flying within the temp NFZ will start to land, with very limited control from the pilot. DJI should at least make this known. I think if owners know, they'll at least avoid these zones just in case. I know I would.
It's like the Boeing 737 Max software. They didn't tell pilots there's this MCAS system that takes over the plane under certain conditions, until after the first crash.

 

[ac0j]

This makes me think of the recent Measles outbreak. And all the "great Parents" that were celebrating their victory with the right to refuse their children's vaccinations.
Flying in an NFZ is stupid, flying close enough to a stadium that will eventually cause an NFZ is even dumber. The punishment has been extracted in the loss of an expensive toy. There is really no debate about freedoms here. Its all about actions and consequences in this discussion. A lesson was learned by all.

 

[raylo32]

Another possible issue with this is simple data input error where DJI makes a mistake in updating a NFZ to unintentionally make it bigger... or somewhere it should even be. Maybe not all that likely but stuff happens. Mr. Murphy and his law also apply to drones.

 

[sar104]

Well... Perhaps. Still, one deserves to have a choice. Always. And i find it very disheartening to see how more and more people here somehow get into thinking that it is safer and better to be restricted, for the sake of the better good. I was born in the system like that, and all i can say - as soon as you will accept the right of the system to make choices for you - you will get a great choice to become, eventually, a fertilizer material in the gulag. There is no middle ground here, you are either free to choose, or not.
And god be my witness, American society these days is in the great state of massive delusion, with a poison of socialism penetrating it everywhere. Laws based on restrictions of your rights are never going to prevent future crimes. It will only restrict rights of those who already choose to comply. Evil will always find a way to bypass. Only proper detection and enforcement of the punishment will correct evil.
All you will get for letting somebody else to choose for you will be them choosing to get more benefits for themselves, and making you pay for that.

So you are objecting to the airspace laws, not the DJI restrictions? Because you have no rights of any kind with regard to the performance of a commercial product other than that it performs as intended. And, as it happens, you have no enshrined right to fly in the NAS at all.

There's definitely delusion afoot. You, for example, clearly don't know what socialism is, and have completely confused your rights with your desires.

 

[sar104]

Another possible issue with this is simple data input error where DJI makes a mistake in updating a NFZ to unintentionally make it bigger... or somewhere it should even be. Maybe not all that likely but stuff happens. Mr. Murphy and his law also apply to drones.

Yes - and while we are at it we should definitely abolish air traffic control. Those guys might make a mistake too.

 

[paulatkin73]

You, for example, clearly don't know what socialism is, and have completely confused your rights with your desires.

Really? Tell me then, what is the socialism?

 

[raylo32]

There has to be a good bit of conservatism when they establish temp NFZs. IOW, it comes up well before the event and the risk to defined assets exists. So if you were to be airborne in airspace that then becomes a temp NFZ there really is ample time to safely RTH without presenting a threat to whatever the NFZ is designed to protect.

The purpose of a NFZ/Restricted Zone is to completely DisAllow any flights. Why in the world would you allow an aircraft to fly autonomously within a Restricted Zone? The only viable option is to have the aircraft AutoLand if it finds itself within a Restricted Zone.

If we're going to operate within the NAS we need to spend the time and effort to do the research and planning ahead of time to try and prevent this from happening. I hate this happened to the OP's aircraft but at some point we have to step up and take responsibility for lack of planning/research.

I fully expect other manufacturers to follow DJI's process with GeoFencing in the future as a means to try and work within the NAS framework or risk not being allowed to produce/sell sUAS globally.

 

[ac0j]

Really? Tell me then, what is the socialism?

lets not go there OK? This is about flying a toy where it shouldnt have been flown. There was no violation of freedom, there was a consequence to a poor decision, Lets move on.

 

[sar104]

Really? Tell me then, what is the socialism?

Socialism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It's not far removed from communism, except in terms of administration and some freedoms. US politics, even the most left-wing elements, doesn't even approach the mildest form of socialism.

 

[gnirtS]

There has to be a good bit of conservatism when they establish temp NFZs. IOW, it comes up well before the event and the risk to defined assets exists. So if you were to be airborne in airspace that then becomes a temp NFZ there really is ample time to safely RTH without presenting a threat to whatever the NFZ is designed to protect.

No. Its quite possible that when a temporary NFZ is activated a careless user could find themselves right in the middle of it and not on the edge. Any further flying can increase risk therefore the only safe outcome is to stop flying and land immediately, where it is.

These things dont just crop up randomly with no notice. They're announced days, weeks, even months ahead of time. If a drone operator cant be bothered to check prior to flying theres a fair argument to be made they aren't mentally mature enough to be flying at all.

Failing to do any pre flight planning at all then blaming the drones failsafe last resort measure really is a poor excuse.

 

[AMann]

Im curious where that TFR NOTAM was listed, tried finding it online and cant.

Use this one for example- tonight at 4:30 PM at Yankee Stadium there’s a game- I know its class B airspace, but where is the TFR for that game or how soon before gametime would it be posted?

 

[Thomas B]

No argument with any of the statements regarding planning and pilot awareness of NFZs before flying. I always get clearance through LAANC or direct communication. However, if you watch the video by the OP it’s clear that the means of implementation is flawed since after forced auto landing he can then take off and fly as desired. So the DJI solution does not prevent illegal flight in this case.
Perhaps a better programming option from DJI would be to have the drone exit the suddenly implemented NFZ by the shortest route. Or maybe have this exit occur, a warning occur, or a geofence occur, before actual implementation. For instance, warning like “this area will be geofenced during the (insert time and date here)”. That would have at least given the operator a chance, albeit not guaranteed, to save his drone as well as be compliant. This is also likely a better solution if safety within the NFZ is to be secured.
Again, I have no problems with prior posts in this thread.

 

[gnirtS]

Im curious where that TFR NOTAM was listed, tried finding it online and cant.

Federal Aviation Administration - Graphic TFR's

 

[Thomas B]

Federal Aviation Administration - Graphic TFR's

Does the long list (I admit I didn’t read it fully) include warnings of impending NFZs? Didn’t see any on a quick scan. Issue for the pilot really is planning.

 

[RayOZ]

Regardless of the argument on who’s right or wrong, if someone happens to fly over a freeway and auto land occurs that caused an accident, the pilot will be charged for various offenses, but dji will be culpable as they removed the pilots ability to take evasive action to prevent the accident. I can’t imagine DJI thinking this is an acceptable solution to people flying in temp NFZ.
At least reduce the rate of descent and allow the pilot to maneuver. They can’t ascend or prevent the descent, but at least the pilot can find a safe landing spot. This only needs to happen once and that pilot will be sure to think twice trying to do that again.

 

[AMann]

Federal Aviation Administration - Graphic TFR's

That’s the list I do use, but I sometimes can’t find some events on it in our area like NASCAR events - they only occasionally get listed. Also notice that the site even says it's incomplete in red at the bottom. I guess just making sure you look at that and also look at the NOTAMS from your regional airport would also help. Always CYA, ‘k?

 

[raylo32]

Sorry, we shall just have to agree to disagree. The few minutes to RTH immediately as a NFZ pops up would present no threat.

No. Its quite possible that when a temporary NFZ is activated a careless user could find themselves right in the middle of it and not on the edge. Any further flying can increase risk therefore the only safe outcome is to stop flying and land immediately, where it is.

These things dont just crop up randomly with no notice. They're announced days, weeks, even months ahead of time. If a drone operator cant be bothered to check prior to flying theres a fair argument to be made they aren't mentally mature enough to be flying at all.

Failing to do any pre flight planning at all then blaming the drones failsafe last resort measure really is a poor excuse.