Flying in extreme cold weather...

[Jagerbomb52]

Right from my Aeronautical Information Manual - AIM 2021

Icing refers to atmospheric water droplets that are often defined as supercooled (< 0 °C), which freeze upon contact with a surface. Icing intensity is classified from trace to severe and icing types are rime, clear, and mixed ice. Icing is common on all types of aircraft and RPAs are no exception. Icing can occur before and during the flight, greatly compromising the ability of the aircraft to operate properly. Formation of ice on the propeller and frame of the aircraft will increase take-off weight, change the aircraft’s aerodynamic properties, and prevent components from operating properly. Critical surfaces such as wings, control surfaces, rotors, propellers, and horizontal and vertical stabilizers should all be confirmed clear of contamination prior to takeoff and must remain so, or the flight be terminated. Refer to the RPAS operating/flight manual provided by the manufacturer to verify the aircraft’s tolerance of icing. In the absence of an RPAS Safety Assurance, it is recommended that you avoid flying in icing conditions unless a method exists to de-ice and provide anti-ice capabilities in flights. For more details about icing, please see MET—Meteorology subpart 2.4 of the TC AIM.

 

[Phantomrain.org]

I think the another threat ! In the Extreme cold is the strong winds.

In extreme cold with Extreme winds and that is the Mavic 2 is prone to the front legs folding in on themselves . That I Believe is the reason for the Mavic 3 having a much more stream lined front arms so as avoid that from happening.

We counter that with the Wet Suit but the reality is once the legs start to fold in on themselves your in trouble.
This is one facet of flying in the wind that is most dangerous . We have only seen it on the Mavic 2 when confronting strong headwinds.



Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly in the Rain.

 

[slup]

Let me tell you what a bigger threat ! In the Extreme cold with strong winds.

In extreme cold with Extreme winds and that is the Mavic 2 is prone to the front legs folding in on themselves ...We counter that with the Wet Suit

Jeez ... you need to dial down your marketing talk about the wet suit a notch. This thread have never been about flying in extreme wind speeds well exceeding the recommended to the extent that the arms folds.

If this is a threat bigger than prop icing, then tell me, why we never have seen that as an incident cause here at the forum... prop icing on the other hand we have about 5-10 cases every winter season.

Nothing extreme needs to be going on in order for prop icing to occur... it's enough that the air temperature is below or just above the freezing point & it's moist in the air ... like slightly hazy (the dew point temp is right there where the air temp is), besides this the sun can be shining, no wind & otherwise a seemingly perfect day for flying.

Then suddenly on height, motor errors start to pour in & shortly after the AC falls.

 

[Phantomrain.org]

Sorry : Since the OP has are gear I just want him to be aware of what are testing has shown and extreme winds have caused the legs to fold in on the Mavic 2.

 

[Robert Prior]

Hello all,

I am working on a book about China and have been given the opportunity to go to North East China, near the North Korean border to photograph a special event, where fishermen take a 1km long net, break the river ice and pull it with horses. The end result is 1000 TONS of fish in a day. Really an excellent topic for the book, but the temperatures dip down to -30 Celsius (-22F). I am wondering if anyone has any experience using a Mavic 2 Pro in these kinds of conditions and if you do, what words of wisdom can you expand upon? Would appreciate any advice. I have already purchased a rain jacket and pad for it, flying over the water, but what else? Many thanks!

Cordially,

Mark Lent

A buddy filmed in Alaska at -30 with an Air. Here's his advice:

Battery management/logistics is key. They need to be kept warm until use, and won't last as long as you expect (or the drone expects).

Plan your shots carefully before you launch. Quickly get the shot and return. You won't have time for fiddling so plan everything including exposure.

Controller may also have issues at those temperatures. If you can't fly from inside shelter then use heat packs or something to keep the controller/display warm enough to function. (I was flying a Phantom at about 0C and had my old iPad display go black after a few minutes. Good thing I had VLOS to recover the bird.)


My advice from growing up in Saskatchewan and regularly being out at -30C:

Icing probably won't be an issue — the air is very dry at that temperature. Might be a problem if you fly through relatively humid air, so I'd suggest keeping clear of anything that looks like mist/cloud.

Plastic gets really brittle when it's that cold. Cracks propagate quicker than you'd expect. Might be worth putting on new props to make certain that you don't get a sudden fracture.

When warming equipment you have to worry about condensation. Put all cameras/drones etc in a bag before bringing them inside, then let them warm to ambient before you take them out of the bag. This way you're much less likely to have problems. I would put my cameras inside a padded camera bag (also at -30C) and let it slowly warm overnight.

Frostbite is a ***** and sneaks up on you. Be careful of exposed flesh, especially if there's any wind.

 

[DoomMeister]

Has anyone actually seen prop ice on a drone?

TCS

Yes a member in one of our other forums while flying near the Matterhorn and another flying on Pikes Peak. They were observant enough to avoid a crash when response to controls appeared sluggish. Another reason to maintain VLOS as response is easier to judge than through a video feed.

 

[Pixeldawg]

A buddy filmed in Alaska at -30 with an Air. Here's his advice:

Battery management/logistics is key. They need to be kept warm until use, and won't last as long as you expect (or the drone expects).

Plan your shots carefully before you launch. Quickly get the shot and return. You won't have time for fiddling so plan everything including exposure.

Controller may also have issues at those temperatures. If you can't fly from inside shelter then use heat packs or something to keep the controller/display warm enough to function. (I was flying a Phantom at about 0C and had my old iPad display go black after a few minutes. Good thing I had VLOS to recover the bird.)


My advice from growing up in Saskatchewan and regularly being out at -30C:

Icing probably won't be an issue — the air is very dry at that temperature. Might be a problem if you fly through relatively humid air, so I'd suggest keeping clear of anything that looks like mist/cloud.

Plastic gets really brittle when it's that cold. Cracks propagate quicker than you'd expect. Might be worth putting on new props to make certain that you don't get a sudden fracture.

When warming equipment you have to worry about condensation. Put all cameras/drones etc in a bag before bringing them inside, then let them warm to ambient before you take them out of the bag. This way you're much less likely to have problems. I would put my cameras inside a padded camera bag (also at -30C) and let it slowly warm overnight.

Frostbite is a ***** and sneaks up on you. Be careful of exposed flesh, especially if there's any wind.

A really excellent response and thanks to your friend for the expertise. Really appreciated!

 

[Pixeldawg]

Right from my Aeronautical Information Manual - AIM 2021

Icing refers to atmospheric water droplets that are often defined as supercooled (< 0 °C), which freeze upon contact with a surface. Icing intensity is classified from trace to severe and icing types are rime, clear, and mixed ice. Icing is common on all types of aircraft and RPAs are no exception. Icing can occur before and during the flight, greatly compromising the ability of the aircraft to operate properly. Formation of ice on the propeller and frame of the aircraft will increase take-off weight, change the aircraft’s aerodynamic properties, and prevent components from operating properly. Critical surfaces such as wings, control surfaces, rotors, propellers, and horizontal and vertical stabilizers should all be confirmed clear of contamination prior to takeoff and must remain so, or the flight be terminated. Refer to the RPAS operating/flight manual provided by the manufacturer to verify the aircraft’s tolerance of icing. In the absence of an RPAS Safety Assurance, it is recommended that you avoid flying in icing conditions unless a method exists to de-ice and provide anti-ice capabilities in flights. For more details about icing, please see MET—Meteorology subpart 2.4 of the TC AIM.

I should have my water covers that I ordered by this time, so am going to have them and little contact with the actual drone will be made, I think. Some of this seems as if it applies more to aircraft than drones, is that correct?

Many thanks,

Mark

 

[Pixeldawg]

I think the another threat ! In the Extreme cold is the strong winds.

In extreme cold with Extreme winds and that is the Mavic 2 is prone to the front legs folding in on themselves . That I Believe is the reason for the Mavic 3 having a much more stream lined front arms so as avoid that from happening.

We counter that with the Wet Suit but the reality is once the legs start to fold in on themselves your in trouble.
This is one facet of flying in the wind that is most dangerous . We have only seen it on the Mavic 2 when confronting strong headwinds.



Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly in the Rain.

Well, as you know, I have ordered my wet suit and other items. I am wondering if the water landing pad can also act as a cushion for hard landings? Any data on this? Thanks for the tip!

Mark

 

[Pixeldawg]

Jeez ... you need to dial down your marketing talk about the wet suit a notch. This thread have never been about flying in extreme wind speeds well exceeding the recommended to the extent that the arms folds.

If this is a threat bigger than prop icing, then tell me, why we never have seen that as an incident cause here at the forum... prop icing on the other hand we have about 5-10 cases every winter season.

Nothing extreme needs to be going on in order for prop icing to occur... it's enough that the air temperature is below or just above the freezing point & it's moist in the air ... like slightly hazy (the dew point temp is right there where the air temp is), besides this the sun can be shining, no wind & otherwise a seemingly perfect day for flying.

Then suddenly on height, motor errors start to pour in & shortly after the AC falls.

I really take no offense to his response and consider it helpful information. And beside this, I have already ordered the items he has discussed, so no real advantage to him. I appreciate the help.

Cordially,

Mark

 

[Pixeldawg]

Yes a member in one of our other forums while flying near the Matterhorn and another flying on Pikes Peak. They were observant enough to avoid a crash when response to controls appeared sluggish. Another reason to maintain VLOS as response is easier to judge than through a video feed.

Really, very honestly, unless it is something extraordinary, my intent is to go up, shoot the photo I see and come right back down. Not a bunch of flying around. Having been a photographer for as long as I have, my main concern is the cold and its' effect on battery life, so very conservative flying. Drone will be in sight, and my wife, who (amazingly) wants to go with me, is an excellent spotter, so 4 sets of eyes...

Thanks for the insight.

Cordially,

Mark

 

[Pixeldawg]

Thank you one and all for the tips and information. I can not tell you how helpful it is and really appreciate the time to give me some needed knowledge.

Be well, all of you!

Cordially,

Mark

 

[Pixeldawg]

If you haven't seen it yet ... it's a lot to get regarding temperatures from both the user manual & the battery safety manual for the Mavic 2 series.

This is what said about the craft itself ...

View attachment 138183

This is regarding the Controller ...

View attachment 138184

And this is for the battery ...

View attachment 138185

And to add in to what's said about the battery ... first of all, putting a battery to use in really cold temperatures with a lot of amp draw will wear them down & shorten the usable service life due to an increase in the batteries internal resistance ... you will pay the price for colder use later on even in normal temperatures.

Then also ... if the battery already is worn & not new, they can possibly be much more sensitive to colder temperatures already to begin with ... making a cell fail airborne, dropping below 3v & initiate a Forced low battery landing that you can't stop.


Then pay attention to the dew point ... if the dew point is near to the air temp that is near or below freezing, the risk for prop icing isn't anything you should ignore. If ice will start to build up on the props the props will lose thrust, making the motors rev faster to counter ... & when the rev. is on max & that isn't enough, your Mavic 2 will come down as a rock.

Thanks! Unfortunately, I am in China, and purchased my drone in... China, so all manuals and other information are in Chinese.

Mark

 

[DoomMeister]

Really, very honestly, unless it is something extraordinary, my intent is to go up, shoot the photo I see and come right back down. Not a bunch of flying around. Having been a photographer for as long as I have, my main concern is the cold and its' effect on battery life, so very conservative flying. Drone will be in sight, and my wife, who (amazingly) wants to go with me, is an excellent spotter, so 4 sets of eyes...

Thanks for the insight.

Cordially,

Mark

Mark,

In both of those cases it was not extreme flying, but there was moisture in the form of light fog. The part that iced up in both instances were the props (the supercooling caused by the airflow). Most of the time in sub zero F temps the air is dry and icing is not an issue.

Best wishes for you and your team as you go on this adventure. We all look forward to a few special shots shared here on the forum.

 

[Pixeldawg]

Mark,

In both of those cases it was not extreme flying, but there was moisture in the form of light fog. The part that iced up in both instances were the props (the supercooling caused by the airflow). Most of the time in sub zero F temps the air is dry and icing is not an issue.

Best wishes for you and your team as you go on this adventure. We all look forward to a few special shots shared here on the forum.

Thanks once again, Doom!

Mark

 

[slup]

Thanks! Unfortunately, I am in China, and purchased my drone in... China, so all manuals and other information are in Chinese.

Mark

The paper included in the box when you buy your drone is usually quick start guides ... the full manuals you download.

Go here for the .pdf version of the full 69 page Mavic 2 user manual --> https://dl.djicdn.com/downloads/Mavic_2/Mavic+2+Pro+Zoom+User+Manual+V1.4.pdf

I really take no offense to his response and consider it helpful information. And beside this, I have already ordered the items he has discussed, so no real advantage to him. I appreciate the help.

Cordially,

Mark

This have nothing to do with what you have or haven't bought for your drone ... this thread will be read by many, many more people years to come, they simply search for cold weather flying, find this & read that it's a MUCH greater risk that the arms will fold in cold weather than encounter prop icing... & consequently place their order for a wet suit that claims to be a solution.... for a non existent problem.

This claim is plain & simple wrong ... we see several prop icing cases here every winter season, but so far no folding arm case for years.

 

[GizmoBowler]

I too have had my mini out when ice fishing, keeping all my batteries warm before flying.

What got me was how fast my phone battery died in the cold. Fortunately the drone was close and RTH worked perfect

 

[GizmoBowler]

I too have had my mini out when ice fishing, keeping all my batteries warm before flying.

What got me was how fast my phone battery died in the cold. Fortunately the drone was close and RTH worked perfect

 

[Phantomrain.org]

The paper included in the box when you buy your drone is usually quick start guides ... the full manuals you download.

Go here for the .pdf version of the full 69 page Mavic 2 user manual --> https://dl.djicdn.com/downloads/Mavic_2/Mavic+2+Pro+Zoom+User+Manual+V1.4.pdf


This have nothing to do with what you have or haven't bought for your drone ... this thread will be read by many, many more people years to come, they simply search for cold weather flying, find this & read that it's a MUCH greater risk that the arms will fold in cold weather than encounter prop icing... & consequently place their order for a wet suit that claims to be a solution.... for a non existent problem.

This claim is plain & simple wrong ... we see several prop icing cases here every winter season, but so far no folding arm case for years.

This was the first time we ever herd of the issue : . We have seen similar threads and some client have provided us pictures of the Mavic 2 when caught in severe wind gusts and the legs have folded in ...

PSA: Front arms can fold in during flight.

I probably should have posted this a while back when it happened, but I figure better late than never. I was testing some modified parameters which allowed for more speed, but I've been told others have hit this kind of speed with a tail wind and so this is relevant. 58mph...then both sticks...

mavicpilots.com

Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly in the Rain, Land on the Water.

 

[hiflyer201]

And that ... "iced up some..." you have zero control over, suddenly it's to much & down it comes.

You have to have visible moisture for ice. Fog qualifies for sure. severe clear is good to go. Like Cole sez...if the temperature and the dewpoint are closing in ..beware.