H.265 Playback on iMac 5k 2017

[Roc Rat]

Trying to playback some footage shot in 4K HQ @ 30fps using H.265 (.mov) in Quicktime on my iMac 5k 2017. The playback is very choppy, playing fine for a few seconds, then freezes (timeline continues to count down) and then jumps ahead a few seconds. When I play the footage back directly from the SD card in the Mavic 2 Pro on my iPad via the DJI Go 4 app all is smooth. Any ideas/advise would be much appreciated!

Your Imac cant process those files fast enough. Use H.264 you cant tell the difference but uses a slower rate but looks good.

 

[arichmondphoto]

POSTED ABOVE IN CASE ANYONE MISSES IT........

Good Morning arichmondphoto. I was up early today for some tests at a local beach. I've uploaded 3 files, all shot at 4K 30fps H265 MOV Normal. They are:

DJI0055 recorded onto same SD card as before - juddering present
DJI0060 recorded onto same SD card as before - no juddering present, plays fine.
DJI0001 recorded onto M2P local drive - no juddering, plays fine.

Going through all my recordings I note that:
90% of the files recorded onto the SD card judder.
100% of the files recorded onto the M2P local drive display no judder and play fine.

I've also attached some screen grabs of the files in question whilst in the iFFMPEG transcoding program. These seem to show that the files that judder have been recorded at a lower frame rate / data rate than the M2P was set too. The files that playback without issue display (approx) 30fps at 100mbps as set on the M2P and as you would expect.

Unfortunately I have no stores nearby to pick up a new SD card today and will have to wait a few days to pick one up. I must admit it does seem to point towards a corrupted SD card although for 2 Sandisk cards purchased from Amazon direct to both be faulty seems unlucky.

Hopefully these ongoing tests will not only help me get to the bottom of my recording issue but also shed light on an important but somewhat confusing aspect of using a drone for video footage. Many thanks to you and all for the continuing support, it is very much appreciated!

Well, it sounds like that had at least helped to narrow down the issue a bit. As a I see it now, there are only a few options left: 1. The SD cards are not fast enough due to mfg defect/are counterfeit, or 2. There is an issue with the card slot on the M2P.

Please keep us all posted as you continue tests!

 

[jpbedrone]

Well, it sounds like that had at least helped to narrow down the issue a bit. As a I see it now, there are only a few options left: 1. The SD cards are not fast enough due to mfg defect/are counterfeit, or 2. There is an issue with the card slot on the M2P.

Please keep us all posted as you continue tests!

Will do!!

 

[jpbedrone]

I recorded two test videos on Sept 12 when I received my Mavic 2 Pro. Both are about 1:32minutes, HEVC, 3840 x 2160. I recorded as MPEG-4 files rather than MOV files for no particular reason. They both play back without jitter on both VLC and Quicktime.

Just wondering, it seems that you alway copy to your SSD before playback. What happens if you play back directly from the Sandisk cards.

The same problem with two separate SD cards.

 

[WilliamG]

The same problem with two separate SD cards.

Were both cards bought at the same time?

 

[KDog]

Hi everybody,

New user here, but I'm a videographer who deals with codec stuff on a daily basis. I've been following this thread as I've been reading up on the M2P. I've never flown a drone, but I'm hoping to get one in a few months (probably M2P), and am currently studying for the 107 exam.

I hope to clarify some stuff about these codecs, because I see a lot of confusion about how to work with them. H.265 is indeed a new-ish codec which is very processor intensive (for now, anyway) compared to H.264, but rightly so - you are compressing 4K video data into a file the same size as an equivalent clip in 1080HD in H.264, in addition to the 10-bit color data. It takes the CPU/GPU, depending on config, some time to unpack all of that for playback and older hardware just can't handle it. Maybe I'm a bit old-school, but as a general rule, codecs like H.264 and H.265 were never meant to be used as native formats for EDITING. They are DELIVERY codecs as best, especially H.264. Given the newness of H.265, it's best to think of it as a "transport" codec. Drones like the M2P are a small/lightweight and low-cost way of shooting aerial video, with the main focus being affordability. To get 10-bit 4K log video onto a microSD card, you need H.265. High-end film/video productions use cameras that shoot straight to lossless or uncompressed formats like ProRes or CinemaDNG on high-speed flash media so they can record extra dynamic range in a format that won't take a bunch of time to transcode, because it's already recorded in a format that is meant for editing. Just look at the difference between the Inspire 2 and the M2P on the codec side...the Inspire eve has high-speed media so it can record in those other formats.

With that in mind, the tradeoff to shooting HVEC is that you have to transcode it, which takes time but saves money on the hardware not to mention allowing DJI to cram high quality 4K video capture into a consumer/prosumer product. Big production houses would constantly be upgrading equipment if they had to edit in these new CPU/GPU hungry codecs every one was released. They would never make money that way, so if they need to bring in something that was shot on a budget in a format like HVEC, they just transcode it. Hard drive space is really cheap!

As for output, there really isn't a reason to output 10-bit color if it's going to go onto YouTube. The 10-bit color is there for grading purposes, and after those are applied, you don't need the excess data. Save yourself the time, export an 8-bit H.264 MP4 and upload it to YouTube - done! Finishing something for HDR isn't as simple as shooting it that way, either. You need HDR monitors and a properly set up editing system so that you can grade it accurately or there is no way of knowing if it really looks like what you are seeing on the screen. After that, its got to be output in the correct colorspace so it'll play back correctly. HEVC H.265 is one of the HDR compliant DELIVERY codecs, otherwise H.264 is perfectly fine for everything else. If you want to get into HDR, including Hybrid Log Gamma (HLG), here's a link to an in-depth article on grading/mastering/delivering in that stuff in Resolve: HDR Video Part 5: Grading, Mastering, and Delivering HDR

My advice to anyone who is working with 10-bit 4K H.265 from the M2P would be save the source files on a drive as an "Archive" of the original footage, then transcode those files into ProRes 422 (I'm not sure if the M2P camera records in 4:2:0, 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 color sampling, but ProRes 422 should work fine for most cases - you can't add color data that isn't there, so unless it starts out as 4:4:4, there's no use in going that high) using Adobe Media Encoder and then use the transcoded files to edit your project. Delete the transcoded media when you are done to save space, and if you ever need to do more edits, just transcode the files from your "Archive" again and reconnect them within your project.

I've got a 2015 iMac here at work with FCPX & Resolve...after transcoding some of the above DJI sample files to ProRes 422 and bringing them into both editors, they ran just as quick and smooth as everything else I work with on a daily basis. I'd expect the same at home on my much older 2013 iMac with half as much RAM. If I get any stuttering, it'll be because it's 4K...in that case, I could edit with low-res proxies and then finish it in 4K.

To recap, these highly compressed formats were never meant to be edited. Just because the software lets you do it does not mean its how they should be handled. They are for delivery, with HVEC/H.265 being the future in order to support 4K and HDR color spaces in a manageable file size.

Sorry for the long reply and I hope it is some help!

This is the absolutely correct answer.

Herein lies the problem with the Consumer/Prosumer drone market in that 4K 10-bit looks good on paper but the realty is that we’re recording using a codec and compression that’s not designed to be edited. It’s been a great frustration for me and why I’ve decided my next drone will have ProRes recording support. It costs most initially but it saves a heap of heartache in post.

The other problem with highly compressed formats is conversion losses; every time a codec is converted it loses data, which is why professsionals hate to publish anything older than 2nd generatation (that is, edit in native format then convert it for transport). When you convert to a less labour intensive format for editing then publish it as h.264 that’s third generation and there are inherent losses (read artifacts, compression colour flattening, partial pixelation etc.) that come with that.

 

[mbre]

This is the absolutely correct answer.

Herein lies the problem with the Consumer/Prosumer drone market in that 4K 10-bit looks good on paper but the realty is that we’re recording using a codec and compression that’s not designed to be edited. It’s been a great frustration for me and why I’ve decided my next drone will have ProRes recording support. It costs most initially but it saves a heap of heartache in post.

The other problem with highly compressed formats is conversion losses; every time a codec is converted it loses data, which is why professsionals hate to publish anything older than 2nd generatation (that is, edit in native format then convert it for transport). When you convert to a less labour intensive format for editing then publish it as h.264 that’s third generation and there are inherent losses (read artifacts, compression colour flattening, partial pixelation etc.) that come with that.

As a RC hobbyist I was looking forward to jumping into my first serious play re. drone video and photography with the iminent purchase of a M2P. I was already scratching my head about what PC/MAC hardware/software I would need to upgrade to in order to render any videos in a presentable way, but reading this thread I am having second thoughts about the M2P altogether. I have already had some experience in editing non-drone videos with Cyberlink PowerDirector V14, so I do appreciate how resource hungry video editing can be - but h.265 seems to take things to a new level of complexity.
Am I getting unnecessarily cold feet?

 

[LuvMyTJ]

So I finally got time to try the h265 out.
My MacBook Pro plays it fine so far with about 35 - 40% CPU usage.

 

[Maxheadspace]

Trying to playback some footage shot in 4K HQ @ 30fps using H.265 (.mov) in Quicktime on my iMac 5k 2017. The playback is very choppy, playing fine for a few seconds, then freezes (timeline continues to count down) and then jumps ahead a few seconds. When I play the footage back directly from the SD card in the Mavic 2 Pro on my iPad via the DJI Go 4 app all is smooth. Any ideas/advise would be much appreciated!

Didn’t Apple stop supporting QuickTime a few years ago? Probably doesn’t support the new h265.

 

[Kilrah]

QuickTime Pro yes, but "QuickTime Player" is still what the system's default built in media player is called.

 

[kilomikebravo]

To recap, these highly compressed formats were never meant to be edited. Just because the software lets you do it does not mean its how they should be handled. They are for delivery, with HVEC/H.265 being the future in order to support 4K and HDR color spaces in a manageable file size.

Sorry for the long reply and I hope it is some help!

No apologies necessary, that was THE best description of what is going on that I've read to date...thanks a BUNCH!

KB

 

[LuvMyTJ]

Didn’t Apple stop supporting QuickTime a few years ago? Probably doesn’t support the new h265.

No sir, Apple developed Quicktime - QuickTime - Official Apple Support
There is also VLC as an option - Official download of VLC media player, the best Open Source player - VideoLAN

 

[Pchantler]

I just got my M2P yesterday after upgrading from a Phantom 3 SE. I was shooting in d-log colour with the Phantom and playback and editing in Premier Elements was no issue. Took my first flight today to test out the aircraft and the camera. I used d-log in the setup and was prompted that I had to switch the codec to H.265 which I did. As everyone else here, the video on my MacBook was choppy at best and Premier Elements gave a codec error when I tried to edit the video. I
Played around and downloaded a converter but this is annoying if I have to do it for each video I shoot. I guess the solution for now is to shoot in normal colour space and H.264.

 

[Fmoots]

I posted a similar thread when I first tried out the h265 test footage from Toms Tech Time review of the MP2

Editing Mavic 2 Pro Test Footage Download (10 bit dlog) - Does it play back smoothly?

I’m running a 13” MBP which is significantly less powerful than the 2017k iMac, so I guess it’s expected this would struggle with the H265 footage

jpbedrone’s explanation is spot on. I also previously came across a thread on the adobe forums discussing, h265 & there were some good comments further explaining:

“It's in the very nature of H.265. It's designed as a "storage" codec, with high compression. And it's an interframe long-GOP codec. Which makes it by it's design a lousy editing codec.”

“Colorists btw, spend frequently between 8-20 grand on a computer & monitor setup, and theycan't expect to have PrPro or Resolve necessarily handle H.265 directly real-time with any serious work done with it. Many-core CPU's with high-frequency rates and tons of fast RAM on the right mobo ... will do better, normally.

But in real life use, even the people building the spendy rigs for colorists say their rigs aren't necessarily going to fly right with H.264/5 especially if it's 4k and above”

H.265/HEVC SUPER SLOW PLAYBACK??? | Adobe Community


I think the solution is most definitely Proxies, especially if you’re a Mac user (as the op is) and using FCX, it makes it very simple to generate proxies at the same time you import the footage (although i’m sure premiere is equally as easy)

Even if you’re editing in h264, unless you need to edit in native 4k, editing using proxies makes it a much smoother experience, particularly on older hardware

 

[Derlisz]

Avdshare Video Converter is recommended as the best HEVC to Mac converter as Converting all HEVC files, like MP4 HEVC, AVI HEVC, MOV HEVC, MKV HEVC, 3GPP HEVC, etc to QuickTime preferred MOV MPEG-4.

Converting video files is a long process that will result of degradation of your footage quality. It certainly isn't a resolution to anything. You might as well record in h.264 if you're not so bothered about the quality in the first place.

 

[Kilrah]

It's just a spammer for the company making that software. Report the profile.

 

[Derlisz]

It's just a spammer for the company making that software. Report the profile.

Fair point.

 

[chipwich]

I posted a similar thread when I first tried out the h265 test footage from Toms Tech Time review of the MP2

Editing Mavic 2 Pro Test Footage Download (10 bit dlog) - Does it play back smoothly?

I think the solution is most definitely Proxies, especially if you’re a Mac user (as the op is) and using FCX, it makes it very simple to generate proxies at the same time you import the footage (although i’m sure premiere is equally as easy)

Even if you’re editing in h264, unless you need to edit in native 4k, editing using proxies makes it a much smoother experience, particularly on older hardware

This.

Edit proxies and render and playback whatever your system will support or whatever your target upload destination allows. I have a late 2016 entry level iMac and have no trouble previewing and editing with proxy media. As mentioned FCPX makes it a simple process. I’bve read that Premier has a similar process.

 

[DroneTone]

For those waiting for a better computer to run H.265 videos on, (either due to waiting for a manufacturer's new design or the cost of upgrading),
try loading it onto your late-model flat-screen TV if you have one available.

I loaded H.265 videos onto a USB 3.0 stick and plugged it into my Sony Bravia TV, (bought in Jan. 2018). Videos ran great right off the USB Stick.
Looks great on the large screen and is much better than my old 2011 High Sierra iMac, which runs very choppy.
Also imported H.265 videos into the Photos app on my new iPad Pro, (thanks Santa), via SD card reader to USB-C.
Videos ran great there as well.