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H.265 Playback on iMac 5k 2017

Depends on the bit deph and bitrate... e.g. I presume it can perfectly play 8 Bit, 35 bps, 30fps H.265 videos. But 10Bit, 100bps, 30fps is a different story.
And this story gets worse when you look into the encoding side. I have an overclocked high end 6-core i7 and if I create a 10Bit HDR H.265 Video, my PC renders it at about 3 frames / second. This means 10 seconds for every second of film using the CPU. Luckily I can use my Graphics Card (GTX 1080) for hardware accelerated encoding and the the NVec H.265 encoder speeds it up to 30-40 frames per second.

But to be honest, I am already looking into upgrading motherboard & cpu. H.265 really sucks....
 
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Depends on the bit deph and bitrate... e.g. I presume it can perfectly play 8 Bit, 35 bps, 30fps H.265 videos. But 10Bit, 100bps, 30fps is a different story.
And this story gets worse when you look into the encoding side. I have an overclocked high end 6-core i7 and if I create a 10Bit HDR H.265 Video, my PC renders it at about 3 frames / second. This means 10 seconds for every second of film using the CPU. Luckily I can use my Graphics Card (GTX 1080) for hardware accelerated encoding and the the NVec H.265 encoder speeds it up to 30-40 frames per second.

But to be honest, I am already looking into upgrading motherboard & cpu. H.265 really sucks....

I must agree, this is very frustrating. My enthusiasm for creating 10-bit HDR H.265 content is dwindling, it seems the hardware premium will ensure that 8Bit will be king for a number of years to come for the majority.
 
Not wanting to distract from the main thread on how/is it possible to playback 4K 30fps 10-bit D-Log H265 directly via a media player, what would be the best workflow to grade/edit such material? Once graded/edited, what would be the best delivery format to keep the upmost quality throughout? Looking at reviews on YouTube of the M2P, there seems to be no mention of these H265 issues where people are showing how they’ve shot & graded in 4K 10-bit D-Log?
 
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I'm finding your issue surprising as I'm working on 2015 MacBook pro i7 16gb ram and it plays back h.265 from mavic just fine. The only place where it falls down is when scrolling through the footage in fcpx. If I play it in there however all is good.
 
Which media player are you using? Are you shooting at 4K 30fps 10-bit D-Log? What type/size SD card are you using & how to you transfer this to the Mac? Are you also grading/editing this footage & if so what software are you using. Hope you don’t mind all the questions but it’s really helping to get an idea of how to work with H265 & hopefully get the best out of the M2P. Once again, many thanks & please do keep posting any other info/experiences.
 
Your problem isn’t the computer, it’s trying to use QuickTime and iMovie to play the files, I doubt they support H.265 codec..

Download VLC newest version or nightly build, ensure it has H.265 encoding or Brorsoft Player and your playback will be smooth as butter.
 
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Looking at reviews on YouTube of the M2P, there seems to be no mention of these H265 issues where people are showing how they’ve shot & graded in 4K 10-bit D-Log?
The reviews you find are from professionals who have top of the line hardware since it's their daily job.

Once graded/edited, what would be the best delivery format to keep the upmost quality throughout?
You'll output h264 as usual for compatibility.
 
Hi everybody,

New user here, but I'm a videographer who deals with codec stuff on a daily basis. I've been following this thread as I've been reading up on the M2P. I've never flown a drone, but I'm hoping to get one in a few months (probably M2P), and am currently studying for the 107 exam.

I hope to clarify some stuff about these codecs, because I see a lot of confusion about how to work with them. H.265 is indeed a new-ish codec which is very processor intensive (for now, anyway) compared to H.264, but rightly so - you are compressing 4K video data into a file the same size as an equivalent clip in 1080HD in H.264, in addition to the 10-bit color data. It takes the CPU/GPU, depending on config, some time to unpack all of that for playback and older hardware just can't handle it. Maybe I'm a bit old-school, but as a general rule, codecs like H.264 and H.265 were never meant to be used as native formats for EDITING. They are DELIVERY codecs as best, especially H.264. Given the newness of H.265, it's best to think of it as a "transport" codec. Drones like the M2P are a small/lightweight and low-cost way of shooting aerial video, with the main focus being affordability. To get 10-bit 4K log video onto a microSD card, you need H.265. High-end film/video productions use cameras that shoot straight to lossless or uncompressed formats like ProRes or CinemaDNG on high-speed flash media so they can record extra dynamic range in a format that won't take a bunch of time to transcode, because it's already recorded in a format that is meant for editing. Just look at the difference between the Inspire 2 and the M2P on the codec side...the Inspire eve has high-speed media so it can record in those other formats.

With that in mind, the tradeoff to shooting HVEC is that you have to transcode it, which takes time but saves money on the hardware not to mention allowing DJI to cram high quality 4K video capture into a consumer/prosumer product. Big production houses would constantly be upgrading equipment if they had to edit in these new CPU/GPU hungry codecs every one was released. They would never make money that way, so if they need to bring in something that was shot on a budget in a format like HVEC, they just transcode it. Hard drive space is really cheap!

As for output, there really isn't a reason to output 10-bit color if it's going to go onto YouTube. The 10-bit color is there for grading purposes, and after those are applied, you don't need the excess data. Save yourself the time, export an 8-bit H.264 MP4 and upload it to YouTube - done! Finishing something for HDR isn't as simple as shooting it that way, either. You need HDR monitors and a properly set up editing system so that you can grade it accurately or there is no way of knowing if it really looks like what you are seeing on the screen. After that, its got to be output in the correct colorspace so it'll play back correctly. HEVC H.265 is one of the HDR compliant DELIVERY codecs, otherwise H.264 is perfectly fine for everything else. If you want to get into HDR, including Hybrid Log Gamma (HLG), here's a link to an in-depth article on grading/mastering/delivering in that stuff in Resolve: HDR Video Part 5: Grading, Mastering, and Delivering HDR

My advice to anyone who is working with 10-bit 4K H.265 from the M2P would be save the source files on a drive as an "Archive" of the original footage, then transcode those files into ProRes 422 (I'm not sure if the M2P camera records in 4:2:0, 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 color sampling, but ProRes 422 should work fine for most cases - you can't add color data that isn't there, so unless it starts out as 4:4:4, there's no use in going that high) using Adobe Media Encoder and then use the transcoded files to edit your project. Delete the transcoded media when you are done to save space, and if you ever need to do more edits, just transcode the files from your "Archive" again and reconnect them within your project.

I've got a 2015 iMac here at work with FCPX & Resolve...after transcoding some of the above DJI sample files to ProRes 422 and bringing them into both editors, they ran just as quick and smooth as everything else I work with on a daily basis. I'd expect the same at home on my much older 2013 iMac with half as much RAM. If I get any stuttering, it'll be because it's 4K...in that case, I could edit with low-res proxies and then finish it in 4K.

To recap, these highly compressed formats were never meant to be edited. Just because the software lets you do it does not mean its how they should be handled. They are for delivery, with HVEC/H.265 being the future in order to support 4K and HDR color spaces in a manageable file size.

Sorry for the long reply and I hope it is some help!
 
I have almost the same iMac, and I can play back 4K h265 videos with no problem, while encoding other videos with Handbrake, so your computer can handle it fine. The only things that could be holding it up are either you’re playing from somewhere slow (copy it to a local drive first) or maybe QuickTime? I use IINA for everything and it’s perfect.
 
Elmedia also plays H.265 files smoothly. VLC also works like a charm. Quicktime seems to choke.
 
Something seems strange. I have a 2015 iMac 5K with 32 GB RAM running High Sierra 10.13.6 and the 10-bit H.265 files from the Mavic 2 Pro play back flawlessly for me in Quicktime. I am running the files from my internal drive or from a superfast external SSD. I am really thinking that the OP has the file on a slow drive. The only files that stutter on my computer are the 10-bit files from my Panasonic GH5 that were recorded at 400 Mbps. Those I have to transcode or use proxies.
 
I have a top spec 2017 15” MacBook with TouchBar and H.265 even H.264 files sometime struggle with QuickTime, even from my SSD. I avoid QuickTime at all costs. As stated above, files play fine through VLC.
 
Not wanting to distract from the main thread on how/is it possible to playback 4K 30fps 10-bit D-Log H265 directly via a media player, what would be the best workflow to grade/edit such material? Once graded/edited, what would be the best delivery format to keep the upmost quality throughout? Looking at reviews on YouTube of the M2P, there seems to be no mention of these H265 issues where people are showing how they’ve shot & graded in 4K 10-bit D-Log?

Yeah! I agree, no doubt this information will surface soon. I've posted a few questions in a couple of the videos. When playing M2P YouTube videos, I've yet to see my OLED show the HDR icon when playing a true 10bit D-Log H.265 file. Corretion - there is one forest full HDR M2P video in youtube. This is great to see ...

M2P HDR Video (Tested on HDR OLED):

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Excellent post arichmondphoto, thank you so much, it makes a lot of sense. Thank you too for all the other posts, I will download VLC when at home later and report back. Has anyone ever used iFFMPEG (Home) for transcoding? Whilst investigating the 'juddering' of my 4K playback I did use this software to transcode the 4K 30fps 10-bit D-Log clip to various other formats to see if these would play in Quicktime (see attached screen shots of one of the transcoding sessions). Unfortunately none of the transcoded files played without the 'judder' either. I also noticed that the iFFMPEG software saw the original DJI file as 24fps as oppose to the 30fps in which it was recorded. Any ideas?
 

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Excellent post arichmondphoto, thank you so much, it makes a lot of sense. Thank you too for all the other posts, I will download VLC when at home later and report back. Has anyone ever used iFFMPEG (Home) for transcoding? Whilst investigating the 'juddering' of my 4K playback I did use this software to transcode the 4K 30fps 10-bit D-Log clip to various other formats to see if these would play in Quicktime (see attached screen shots of one of the transcoding sessions). Unfortunately none of the transcoded files played without the 'judder' either. I also noticed that the iFFMPEG software saw the original DJI file as 24fps as oppose to the 30fps in which it was recorded. Any ideas?

Its interesting that you are getting a judder/studder during playback. Could you post the full specs of your iMac (Click the Apple > "About This Mac" > Screenshot that box)? You may also want to go to Applications> Utilities > Activity Monitor and see which processes are using the most CPU % and try to identify what they are. You can also force quit the hogs one by one from there and see if that improves performance and/or indicates the offending process.

My older 2015 5K iMac does play H.265 files back just fine in Preview and QT, but not if I try to incorporate them natively into a project with grading/sharpening, etc., hence the transcode suggestions above. I'm wondering if something else is going on with your machine that is affecting performance. Maybe something is running in the background and killing performance? It almost makes me wonder if there is some crypto-mining malware hogging your CPU/GPU - a stretch, but you never know!
 
Just downloaded VLC Media Player Version 3.0.4 Vetinari (Intel 64bit) for Mac but still no improvement on the 'juddering' playback. To confirm my workflow:
1) Mavic 2 Pro loaded with a SanDisk Extreme PRO 64GB SD card
2) File shot at 4K 30fps NORMAL @H265 .MOV
3) SD card removed from Magic 2 Pro and transferred using a USB3 card reader to internal 1TB SSD
4) File played from internal 1TB SSD in both Quicktime and VLC both showing serious 'judder'
Any idea on what I may be doing incorrectly?
 
Hi everybody,

New user here, but I'm a videographer who deals with codec stuff on a daily basis. I've been following this thread as I've been reading up on the M2P. I've never flown a drone, but I'm hoping to get one in a few months (probably M2P), and am currently studying for the 107 exam.

I hope to clarify some stuff about these codecs, because I see a lot of confusion about how to work with them. H.265 is indeed a new-ish codec which is very processor intensive (for now, anyway) compared to H.264, but rightly so - you are compressing 4K video data into a file the same size as an equivalent clip in 1080HD in H.264, in addition to the 10-bit color data. It takes the CPU/GPU, depending on config, some time to unpack all of that for playback and older hardware just can't handle it. Maybe I'm a bit old-school, but as a general rule, codecs like H.264 and H.265 were never meant to be used as native formats for EDITING. They are DELIVERY codecs as best, especially H.264. Given the newness of H.265, it's best to think of it as a "transport" codec. Drones like the M2P are a small/lightweight and low-cost way of shooting aerial video, with the main focus being affordability. To get 10-bit 4K log video onto a microSD card, you need H.265. High-end film/video productions use cameras that shoot straight to lossless or uncompressed formats like ProRes or CinemaDNG on high-speed flash media so they can record extra dynamic range in a format that won't take a bunch of time to transcode, because it's already recorded in a format that is meant for editing. Just look at the difference between the Inspire 2 and the M2P on the codec side...the Inspire eve has high-speed media so it can record in those other formats.

With that in mind, the tradeoff to shooting HVEC is that you have to transcode it, which takes time but saves money on the hardware not to mention allowing DJI to cram high quality 4K video capture into a consumer/prosumer product. Big production houses would constantly be upgrading equipment if they had to edit in these new CPU/GPU hungry codecs every one was released. They would never make money that way, so if they need to bring in something that was shot on a budget in a format like HVEC, they just transcode it. Hard drive space is really cheap!

As for output, there really isn't a reason to output 10-bit color if it's going to go onto YouTube. The 10-bit color is there for grading purposes, and after those are applied, you don't need the excess data. Save yourself the time, export an 8-bit H.264 MP4 and upload it to YouTube - done! Finishing something for HDR isn't as simple as shooting it that way, either. You need HDR monitors and a properly set up editing system so that you can grade it accurately or there is no way of knowing if it really looks like what you are seeing on the screen. After that, its got to be output in the correct colorspace so it'll play back correctly. HEVC H.265 is one of the HDR compliant DELIVERY codecs, otherwise H.264 is perfectly fine for everything else. If you want to get into HDR, including Hybrid Log Gamma (HLG), here's a link to an in-depth article on grading/mastering/delivering in that stuff in Resolve: HDR Video Part 5: Grading, Mastering, and Delivering HDR

My advice to anyone who is working with 10-bit 4K H.265 from the M2P would be save the source files on a drive as an "Archive" of the original footage, then transcode those files into ProRes 422 (I'm not sure if the M2P camera records in 4:2:0, 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 color sampling, but ProRes 422 should work fine for most cases - you can't add color data that isn't there, so unless it starts out as 4:4:4, there's no use in going that high) using Adobe Media Encoder and then use the transcoded files to edit your project. Delete the transcoded media when you are done to save space, and if you ever need to do more edits, just transcode the files from your "Archive" again and reconnect them within your project.

I've got a 2015 iMac here at work with FCPX & Resolve...after transcoding some of the above DJI sample files to ProRes 422 and bringing them into both editors, they ran just as quick and smooth as everything else I work with on a daily basis. I'd expect the same at home on my much older 2013 iMac with half as much RAM. If I get any stuttering, it'll be because it's 4K...in that case, I could edit with low-res proxies and then finish it in 4K.

To recap, these highly compressed formats were never meant to be edited. Just because the software lets you do it does not mean its how they should be handled. They are for delivery, with HVEC/H.265 being the future in order to support 4K and HDR color spaces in a manageable file size.

Sorry for the long reply and I hope it is some help!

Yep! That's the reply we've been waiting for, thank you! This is definitive and it's a Friday, what more can we ask for! Please stick around Richmond Photo, we need you! :-)
 
Just downloaded VLC Media Player Version 3.0.4 Vetinari (Intel 64bit) for Mac but still no improvement on the 'juddering' playback. To confirm my workflow:
1) Mavic 2 Pro loaded with a SanDisk Extreme PRO 64GB SD card
2) File shot at 4K 30fps NORMAL @H265 .MOV
3) SD card removed from Magic 2 Pro and transferred using a USB3 card reader to internal 1TB SSD
4) File played from internal 1TB SSD in both Quicktime and VLC both showing serious 'judder'
Any idea on what I may be doing incorrectly?


I'm not so sure you are doing something "wrong"... I think there is something eating up system resources on your machine. Check Activity Monitor (Utilities > Activity Monitor) to see which processes are using the most memory and/or CPU. That's the best starting point I can give you at this point...
 
Ive attached two screen shots - one of the spec of my iMac and the other showing the activity monitor at the point the judder begins. Just for reference my iMac has barely been used and is basically as delivered from Apple.
 

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    Activity Monitor.jpg
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  • iMac Spec.jpg
    iMac Spec.jpg
    4.3 MB · Views: 36

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