Helicopters over cities

[Flynz]

Has anyone else had a scare with helicopters over their city. Our local park is called Mt Ablert and the old volcanic cone or mountain is 443ft above sea level. So I can fly 400 ft above that or 843 ft above sea level. Helicopter transiting across the park should increase their altitude so as to maintain height above ground level but some just barrel through at a constant altitude and heading. I guess they should be over 1000ft but it does not feel like it standing on top of the hill. Wouldn’t like to get my MP2 anywhere near the wash.

 

[Hegemone]

My park is actually less then 1 mile from a private helipad. They come through low and fast. If I hear ANY thing I descend as fast as safe and possible. No matter the situation it would be my fault for not giving right of way to another aircraft. Doesn't help that my park is right at the base of some low mountains so noises and sight lines are interesting in certain directions. also there are no big building or towers in the area so they are likely flying at their lower limits.

I don't think I have ever seen one below 400 AGL but it's still a panick moment. But I guess no should not be surprised becaue I still gasp a little when a small jet passes over the drone even though I know they are MUCH higer. I am sure the heli pilots know all the rc plane folk fly there as well since they also share a lot with the local AMA field lol.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

I think in general I have read (apart from obvious take off / landing and approaches) light aircraft is 152m / 500' minimum AGL, why our 120m / 400' altitude restriction is important.

I wasn't sure about general airspace and NZ so googled it, and yes wiki info states in general airspace is as such . . .

General airspace

What altitude should you fly a light aircraft ?
500 feet
An aircraft must maintain an altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.

Lowest height a light aircraft should fly ?
500 feet
Lowest safe altitude. In aviation (particularly in air navigation), lowest safe altitude (LSALT) is an altitude that is at least 500 feet above any obstacle or terrain within a defined safety buffer region around a particular route that a pilot might fly.

New Zealand CAA info

Low flying introduction | aviation.govt.nz

www.aviation.govt.nz

But also states . . .
Commonly, low flying refers to any flight at or below 500 feet agl that may be practised only in designated low flying zones.

 

[Flynz]

I think in general I have read (apart from obvious take off / landing and approaches) light aircraft is 152m / 500' minimum AGL, why our 120m / 400' altitude restriction is important.

I wasn't sure about general airspace and NZ so googled it, and yes wiki info states in general airspace is as such . . .

General airspace

What altitude should you fly a light aircraft ?
500 feet
An aircraft must maintain an altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.

Lowest height a light aircraft should fly ?
500 feet
Lowest safe altitude. In aviation (particularly in air navigation), lowest safe altitude (LSALT) is an altitude that is at least 500 feet above any obstacle or terrain within a defined safety buffer region around a particular route that a pilot might fly.

New Zealand CAA info

Low flying introduction | aviation.govt.nz

www.aviation.govt.nz

But also states . . .
Commonly, low flying refers to any flight at or below 500 feet agl that may be practised only in designated low flying zones.

Thanks. Problem is aircraft altimeters give height above sea level. It looks to me that these guys keep a fixed altitude and ignore ground level changes. In my case 400+ ft. They probably are at a safe height but a jet chopper passing lowish at full noise looks and sounds lower than it may be. Caught me once when doing a dronie off the top.

 

[bumper]

The rules, for low flying aircraft,though similar from country to country, also have important differences. This thread addresses New Zealand's rules.

I mention this only for clarity. In the USA, below 400' AGL in non-populated areas is legal so long as 500' separation is maintained from persons and structures. There are obviously going to be rare unintentional close encounters. Top a ridge or mountain top and there a climber "right there" (they wave wildly and usually don't turn in one's N number to the FAA), so long as you don't do a chandelle to turn back and strafe them!

Best to listen for manned aircraft as Flynz suggests.

On one of the mountains in NV's Pinenut range (I landed to check out the crosses). Nobody around 'cept me.

 

[Phill]

Has anyone else had a scare with helicopters over their city. Our local park is called Mt Ablert and the old volcanic cone or mountain is 443ft above sea level. So I can fly 400 ft above that or 843 ft above sea level. Helicopter transiting across the park should increase their altitude so as to maintain height above ground level but some just barrel through at a constant altitude and heading. I guess they should be over 1000ft but it does not feel like it standing on top of the hill. Wouldn’t like to get my MP2 anywhere near the wash.

I live 500m from a beach.
The surf patrol fly at 60m (about 200 feet) feet here.
When the army exercises are on a few miles away theirs come through at treetop level.
Gets scary sometimes.
It's not a no fly zone even when the army is here thankfully.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

Thanks. Problem is aircraft altimeters give height above sea level. It looks to me that these guys keep a fixed altitude and ignore ground level changes. In my case 400+ ft. They probably are at a safe height but a jet chopper passing lowish at full noise looks and sounds lower than it may be. Caught me once when doing a dronie off the top.

Yes, light manned aircraft have similar issues (only in reverse) with altitude AGL, as we do for drone flights.
They are trying to keep above 500' or whatever, we are trying to keep below, and 'never the twine shall meet' !!

On one of the mountains in NV's Pinenut range (I landed to check out the crosses). Nobody around 'cept me.

Awesome photo, looks like a bit of a bumpy landing place.
From the looks you do a bit of a stol type of perching on a small target like that ?
Doesn't look like much 'runway'.

I live 500m from a beach.
The surf patrol fly at 60m (about 200 feet) feet here.
When the army exercises are on a few miles away theirs come through at treetop level.
It's not a no fly zone even when the army is here thankfully.

This is where it's up to drone pilots to fly close enough (VLOS) to be able to 'land if we become aware of manned aircraft in the vicinity'.

Does the local lifesaving group use drones too in their patrols or shark spotting ?

 

[Flynz]

The rules, for low flying aircraft,though similar from country to country, also have important differences. This thread addresses New Zealand's rules.

I mention this only for clarity. In the USA, below 400' AGL in non-populated areas is legal so long as 500' separation is maintained from persons and structures. There are obviously going to be rare unintentional close encounters. Top a ridge or mountain top and there a climber "right there" (they wave wildly and usually don't turn in one's N number to the FAA), so long as you don't do a chandelle to turn back and strafe them!

Best to listen for manned aircraft as Flynz suggests.

On one of the mountains in NV's Pinenut range (I landed to check out the crosses). Nobody around 'cept me.

When I was young I did a low pass over the golf club in a C152 while my father was playing. The designated low flying area was close by. Someone got my tail number and called the tower. I got a serious lecture from my instructor who then smiled and said we all did the same thing. ?

 

[Flynz]

I live 500m from a beach.
The surf patrol fly at 60m (about 200 feet) feet here.
When the army exercises are on a few miles away theirs come through at treetop level.
Gets scary sometimes.
It's not a no fly zone even when the army is here thankfully.

Gee stay away from the surf patrol. We have fixed wing aircraft doing search and rescue. Never see them and no one flies below 500ft, unless scooting over a ridge ?. We have bronze whaler sharks at our beach and I have seen drone shots and also seen them from a Cessna. Not seen them with my MP2 yet. We don’t worry too much about the Bronzies. They are pescatarian ? we just keep out of their way.

 

[bumper]

Awesome photo, looks like a bit of a bumpy landing place.
From the looks you do a bit of a stol type of perching on a small target like that ?
Doesn't look like much 'runway'.

The Husky isn't super STOL like those guys at Valdez, Alaska. At sea level, managed well, it needs a bit over 200' - takeoff is less. Most of what has to pass for a runway is behind me when I tool the pic. For short spaces you approach the slope, round out and flare with enough energy to reach the top. Misjudging can get expensive.

 

[dronerdave]

My flying club flies off a NASA runway that shares it with other companies doing research and law enforcement who practice driving and helicopter swat type operations. Being it's considered a private jet length runway, we have a lot of low fly overs that I've posted about before. It's amazing how fast a aircraft is on you before you hear it. The Helo's generally fly down to us to make sure we know they are working at the other end of the runway. But a lot of small private planes routinely do touch and goes and they're not actually allowed to do that w/o permission. But all of us in our club are thrilled by a low pass of any real plane.

 

[Gr8ful]

GA aircraft 500' AGL unless over un inhabited areas, fields, water, etc Then you can scud run. What's fun is getting your tires wet in Lake Michigan.

 

[Ragnar]

Helicopters can fly as low as they want...."FAR: Helicopters can operate below minimums as long as they don't cause damage or injury to persons or property "

Has anyone else had a scare with helicopters over their city. Our local park is called Mt Ablert and the old volcanic cone or mountain is 443ft above sea level. So I can fly 400 ft above that or 843 ft above sea level. Helicopter transiting across the park should increase their altitude so as to maintain height above ground level but some just barrel through at a constant altitude and heading. I guess they should be over 1000ft but it does not feel like it standing on top of the hill. Wouldn’t like to get my MP2 anywhere near the wash.

 

[Flynz]

GA aircraft 500' AGL unless over un inhabited areas, fields, water, etc Then you can scud run. What's fun is getting your tires wet in Lake Michigan.

In New Zealand the limit is 500m open paddock or not unless you are in a designated low flying area. So your scud run would be illegal.

 

[Flynz]

Just re read the local CAA rules. The minimum here is 1000ft above any object within 600’ over a built up area and high enough to perform a safe emergency landing. So fixed wing would need to be higher. Choppers can autorotate anywhere but it would get messy if they landed in my back yard. My street would be doable if they missed the lamp posts and power poles.

500 ft everywhere else unless in a low flying area for training purposes or for a specific purpose like crop dusting or choppers lifting structures for construction. I guess shark patrol would be a specific purpose however I think you could see better from 500ft.

The exception is landing and taking off. But you need permission to land on private or Conservation land (National Parks). That’s another story.

So the drone should be safe at 400’ so long as pilots obey the rules. The chopper that scared me should have been at 1000’ over the suburb and so even though they did not change altitude to pass over the hill they should still Have been 500+ ft AGL. They certainly broke the law and 500’ seems close for a large turbo chopper at full speed. I was doing a manual dronie off the top (Head down concentrating) and the chopper passed over head. Seemed close!

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

So the drone should be safe at 400’ so long as pilots obey the rules.

Helicopters can fly as low as they want...."FAR: Helicopters can operate below minimums as long as they don't cause damage or injury to persons or property "

So yeah, if following the rules (both manned and UAV pilots) we should all be sweet . . . except in the case as Ragnar posted.
I guess in those areas, it's up to UAV operators to be aware and flying in a manner (VLOS and low) to best avoid anything coming low and fast, and maybe have some really bright strobes all round in nav format . . . or don't fly above tree tops in those designated low flight areas.

 

[Phill]

Yes, light manned aircraft have similar issues (only in reverse) with altitude AGL, as we do for drone flights.
They are trying to keep above 500' or whatever, we are trying to keep below, and 'never the twine shall meet' !!



Awesome photo, looks like a bit of a bumpy landing place.
From the looks you do a bit of a stol type of perching on a small target like that ?
Doesn't look like much 'runway'.



This is where it's up to drone pilots to fly close enough (VLOS) to be able to 'land if we become aware of manned aircraft in the vicinity'.

Does the local lifesaving group use drones too in their patrols or shark spotting ?

Yep they use them.
Those guys aren't a big problem it's the army that are dangerous.
Treetop level and full forward doesn't allow much time.
Going up is quicker than landing when they come by.
It isn't a restricted area even when the army is in town.

 

[Herbie D]

When I was young I did a low pass over the golf club in a C152 while my father was playing. The designated low flying area was close by. Someone got my tail number and called the tower. I got a serious lecture from my instructor who then smiled and said we all did the same thing. ?

Was going to ask if you can identify the helicopters? Main rule is to give way to manned aircraft but still.
I’ve been to Mt Albert and it would be fun to drone.

 

[lookout]

Helicopters can fly as low as they want...."FAR: Helicopters can operate below minimums as long as they don't cause damage or injury to persons or property "

I think they do fly below 500' AGL which poses a danger to drones (rather quads) trying to stay under 400' AGL. There's going to be some incursions with that...would you like fries with that?

Thanks. Problem is aircraft altimeters give height above sea level. It looks to me that these guys keep a fixed altitude and ignore ground level changes. In my case 400+ ft. They probably are at a safe height but a jet chopper passing lowish at full noise looks and sounds lower than it may be. Caught me once when doing a dronie off the top.

They have to adjust barometric pressure often and go by MSL. The standard is 29.92" if nothing else. And if there's an error, everybody is using the same error.

 

[Cymruflyer]

I think they do fly below 500' AGL which poses a danger to drones (rather quads) trying to stay under 400' AGL. There's going to be some incursions with that...would you like fries with that?


They have to adjust barometric pressure often and go by MSL. The standard is 29.92" if nothing else. And if there's an error, everybody is using the same error.

That's only in the USA, the rest of the world uses 101.3 in millibars.