How to: avoid GEO System-induced forced landing and crashes

[fnf]

Still sounds sketchy if out over water upon activation but..

You've done your homework and I appreciate the post.

I'm even questioning the legality, under part 107 of DJI allowing the software to take unalterable control (either intentional or unintentional) away from the PIC. To my knowledge, no other legally defined aircraft manufacturer allows this to happen.

I am saving this post for further study and reflection, because a lot of it now does make sense.

Thanks.

You're right, flying over water is already sketchy with the ultrasonic sensor malfunctioning. Forced landing certainly won't help.

For this reason I believe the sensible thing to do is to research the area you'd want to fly before hand using this map DJI - The World Leader in Camera Drones/Quadcopters for Aerial Photography . Then turn off GEO System for the flight, the aircraft should effectively be using this map DJI - Fly Safe: No Fly Zones .

This is a grey area though but considering that you have to acknowledge with GEO System enabled anyway, I don't think there would be any increased risk.

 

[Gary cato]

You're right, flying over water is already sketchy with the ultrasonic sensor malfunctioning. Forced landing certainly won't help.

For this reason I believe the sensible thing to do is to research the area you'd want to fly before hand using this map DJI - The World Leader in Camera Drones/Quadcopters for Aerial Photography . Then turn off GEO System for the flight, the aircraft should effectively be using this map DJI - Fly Safe: No Fly Zones .

This is a grey area though but considering that you have to acknowledge with GEO System enabled anyway, I don't think there would be any increased risk.

ok so i looked at the maps and it says that Denham ATZ where there is a constant stream of light planes does not need unlocking.

It seems to me it shows it as not even an enhanced warning zone. Pretty strange as it is a school for PPL students.

 

[Robert Mitchell]

ok so i looked at the maps and it says that Denham ATZ where there is a constant stream of light planes does not need unlocking.

It seems to me it shows it as not even an enhanced warning zone. Pretty strange as it is a school for PPL students.

That's another funny thing about this. The NFZ I had a forced landing in, is NOT a NFZ according to carefully studied FAA sectionals, recently released FAA facility maps, and Airmap, and like you indicated above, I was being allowed by DJI Geo to fly where helicopters and aircraft were regularly flying past.

Not that this surprises me, because they are using a broad, yet questionable definition of what a NFZ is.

 

[diabox]

That's another funny thing about this. The NFZ I had a forced landing in, is NOT a NFZ according to carefully studied FAA sectionals, recently released FAA facility maps, and Airmap, and like you indicated above, I was being allowed by DJI Geo to fly where helicopters and aircraft were regularly flying past.

Not that this surprises me, because they are using a broad, yet questionable definition of what a NFZ is.

It's also a possibility that a TFR (temporary flight restriction) can be posted in your area that comes into effect while you are flying. These are posted and scheduled 5 mile NFZ for sports matches at stadiums, and larger 30 mile VIP TFR for presidential travel.

 

[Kilrah]

The app doesn't store these dynamic NFZs at all and rely on a working Internet connection.

It does, it has a full copy of the DB locally (which is what has been decrypted/extracted recently). It will update it when you have a connection, but when you start without one it should load the existing contents of the local DB.

 

[fnf]

It does, it has a full copy of the DB locally (which is what has been decrypted/extracted recently). It will update it when you have a connection, but when you start without one it should load the existing contents of the local DB.

That has not been my experience as I tested Airplane mode and saw that GEO System didn't kick in. I'll test again later.

I think the take away point is that the dynamic NFZs are entirety controlled by DJI Go app and it could cause a forced landing without the aircraft necessarily being inside a NFZ.

I would have preferred that the app not initiate a forced landing but prevent the aircraft from going in further, just like when it's about to enter a NFZ.

 

[Gary cato]

That has not been my experience as I tested Airplane mode and saw that GEO System didn't kick in. I'll test again later.

I think the take away point is that the dynamic NFZs are entirety controlled by DJI Go app and it could cause a forced landing without the aircraft necessarily being inside a NFZ.

I would have preferred that the app not initiate a forced landing but prevent the aircraft from going in further, just like when it's about to enter a NFZ.

Yes Geo does not kick in if u hit airplane mode before u start the app.

 

[fnf]

It does, it has a full copy of the DB locally (which is what has been decrypted/extracted recently). It will update it when you have a connection, but when you start without one it should load the existing contents of the local DB.

I have checked again and it appears DJI Go caches the dynamic NFZs locally, at least for the surrounding area, depending on the size of the database.

So it was not Airplane mode that prevents GEO System from working, rather it is when GEO System is in "Loading" state i.e., right after you enable it or at some point after DJI Go is opened.

If you have spotty Internet connection, you might find that GEO System gets stuck at "Loading" state which allows you to take off. After it's fully functional the app might cause a forced landing. That was the case for me as I often test the Mavic just outside of my house where the WiFi signal is barely functional. I'd imagine that it could be a more common problem when you're out in the wilderness with a weak mobile signal as well.

For that reason, I have disabled GEO System and will check the area before I fly in a new area. It's one less thing to worry about. DJI Go conveniently provides the full map in the "Flight Restriction Information" section so it's not a big issue.

 

[Mavic Gang AZ]

Agreed that is what i meant when i said it placed him within the NFZ. (on updating everything in flight, scary).

I still really would like to see what happens when ypu run into a geo fence i wonder if anyone has stuck one on you tube i am gonna go search

There is a guy on YouTube he's of vlogger though he ran into a geo- fence according to him the drone acted very much so like obstacle avoidance would his drone just stopped and wouldn't go forward anymore after that it began to hover for a few seconds then return to home was activated. That doesn't sound like a bad deal but if it's going to automatically and f*** that :/

 

[SteelFlyer]

Even though I already gave authorisation to fly in this area, the app has forgotten that. I unknowingly took off, thinking that I already authorised.

If you watch the DJI video on their GEO system, they state that self-authorizations only remain in effect for 24 hours. That's why it appears that the app "forgot" the authorization.

 

[Gary cato]

There is a guy on YouTube he's of vlogger though he ran into a geo- fence according to him the drone acted very much so like obstacle avoidance would his drone just stopped and wouldn't go forward anymore after that it began to hover for a few seconds then return to home was activated. That doesn't sound like a bad deal but if it's going to automatically and f*** that :/

agree here too RTH is ideal, forced landing is not.

 

[gavcuk]

But realistically do you think if you are detected as flying in an NFZ they are gonna just let you reverse outta there?

No way, the obvious course of action to defend the safety of the NFZ is to land.

The priority is not going to be whether we get our drone back safely and in one piece.

 

[Mavic Gang AZ]

Well what I think is this for one that geo fence is made to prevent you from going in there for you should've never been passed the Geo fencing in the first place. especially if you have Geo fence on, as it's made to prevent you from entering in the first place. Then you're going to have a few seconds to turn your *** around... giving you opportunity to make the right decision if you don't well then you deal with the consequences of your drone landing automatically. I see the DJI GEO fence as more of a safety precaution for airports and a warning to you that you're in an on authorized area. Rather than a spider web net for drones. Again this is just my opinion..

 

[BerndM]

Are there maps that shows what DJI has determined to be a NFZ area??

 

[ReadyKilowatt]

I have to think in the long run this will just be more of a hassle for the law abiding fliers. Throwing technology at a legal problem is just seen as a challenge for some people.

My "other" hobby is amateur radio. Many people modify commercial radios for use in the ham bands. I imagine very very few would ever consider operating their radios on commercial or other frequencies, but I'm sure it happens from time to time too (like people screwing with drive-through employees). There are also ways to modify ham radios so that they can transmit "out of band." Again, most hams aren't going to bother with the modification, but it is out there and yet the numbers of people violating the rules are miniscule.

"Tempest in a teapot" comes to mind...

 

[Elaskanator]

What if you disconnect the phone/tablet from the controller physically (removing USB) after the 20 second warning appears but before it elapses?

 

[fnf]

What if you disconnect the phone/tablet from the controller physically (removing USB) after the 20 second warning appears but before it elapses?

The aircraft controls the autolanding, the app just reports on this fact with an orchestrated timer. I've done some tests here to show that this doesn't help: Dji sink my Mavic pro .

Starting with the latest DJI Go app (4.1.2), we no longer have the option to turn GEO System off so I think the safest way to fly without running into the risk of forced landing is to fly with no Internet connection. However, I believe that this method also prevents us from authorising ourselves so flying in yellow NFZs won't be possible. Not that we should, but for someone to lives close to an airport and wants to test new features out this is an inconvenience, for this reason I don't disable Internet connection whilst flying but just to make doubly sure that GEO System has been loaded and is active before flying.

 

[GMG]

I know the intent of GEO is safety, but in implementation it feels like forcing your Mavic to the ground/water, with no little ability to regain control is a business model for people to have to buy a replacement MP. Should we ask DJI to label the box "Disposable drone" to manage expectations?

 

[BerndM]

fnf,
what do you mean by "internet connection?
Most of the videos I have seen have been taken in places far removed from any internet connections.

 

[fnf]

fnf,
what do you mean by "internet connection?
Most of the videos I have seen have been taken in places far removed from any internet connections.

The app relies on a working Internet connection to send dynamic NFZs to the aircraft, otherwise it uses the NFZ database stored within the app and the aircraft which shouldn't catch you by surprise.

Also, I wouldn't expect a remote place to have any NFZ so this caution is more related to near-urban flying. I have had this happen to me quite a few times when the Mavic just decides that it is inside an NFZ which I'm well aware of, the issue is that it lets me take off regardless until it realises that fact.

I consider DJI's implementation of GEO System still somewhat buggy and would always double check that it is working before flying far.